Militants hang 8-year-old boy in southern Afghanistan

[Med911]

Re: Militants hang 8-year-old boy in southern Afghanistan

@pak-one

**With all do respect sir, its only rhetoric to you, because you mix raw emotion with actual logic. I could explain my point of view to you, but you will simply dilute any argument with your own emotional attachment to the issue.
The problem here is you dont seem to understand the actual point im making, so you claim its rhetoric out of convenience, not having to actually think about the point at hand.
**

Sure I hold raw emotions – its my countrymen and at times extended family members that are being killed. We’re not talking about Martians here, these are Pakistanis and I am not going to just speak strategically.

Even if we return to pure strategy and geopolitics: Now that the US is looking to leave Afghanistan, guess who will be left holding the bag again? Pakistan. Except that we have multiplied our enemies by 100x by doing the bidding of the US.

**
You seem to not understand what this debate is even about.

I DO NOT and NEVER HAVE claimed that civilians are NOT killed in such attacks. I simply do not believe that the US targets these civilians intentionally.

I BELIEVE the US is doing its best to avoid casualties.

I do NOT believe the US is villainous nation, with evil intent. Nor am I foolish or Naive enough to believe the US is benevolent. I simply try to see this issue in a non biased and logical manner.
**

This debate is about the protection of Pakistani sovereignty, this debate is about the extrjudicial murder of civilians in FATA, and this debate is about an undeclared war on Pakistan. I could care less whether US is doing its “best” to avoid casualties and whether its a “good” nation or not. You speak of logic and naivete but let me just say this:

• Pakistan is under attack from the US, its civilians have been killed by these drones and it has been vilified as a terrorist safe haven. Are these facts or not? No emotions involved, just statements of fact yes?

Then, what is our incentive to work with US/NATO? Some of the “terrorists” are fighting US/NATO or Kharzai’s illegitimate regime, so we should let them. TTP recieves funding and support from external sources, so we need to shut them down. Same goes for the CIA and other intel ops who are looking to spy not only on our military installations but nuclear ones, maybe the next time a Raymond Davis is caught, we find his dead body in the outskirts of Lahore in a ditch. THIS is ROBUST Pakistani nationalist response to the current mess, not playing lapdog to American interests.

**
The NYT, LAT, are considered legitimate sources the world over. This is not my opinion, this is fact. If you arent willing to acknowledge these as being legitimate, as they are by other intelligent and unbiased individuals, then I doubt any source will be enough to satisfy you.

Your opinion, based on the your own experience, is irrelevant as far as this debate goes. That you have been to Janazas is unfortunate, but it is irrelevant in determining the motives of the US.
**

Again WHO decides if NYT, LAT is legitimate? I need names and people. Yes, I am not willing to accept them because I have seen the reality from my own eyes. Nothing beats the situation on the ground. NYT, LAT doesn’t even send their own reporters into FATA and you expect me to believe their sources?

As for the motives of the US, they are quite clear: In Iraq they wanted oik, in Afghanistan/Pakistan, they want puppet regimes to secure an energy corridor, blunt Iranian/Chinese influence, and further their neo-colonist ambitions at the expense of indigenous sovereignty.

**
My opinion in simple terms is this. The Taliban are monsters, and they must be fought. Pakistan has lost sovereignty because of them. In this context, the Drones are a necessary evil. Infact, if you want to defeat the Taliban, with the least amount of casualties and destruction, then the Drones are our best option. If you want to see yourvillage destroyed, you people forced to live as refugees in their own country, and countless people to suffer, then by all means, deman the Pak Army do the work the Drones are doing.

The report you cited does nothing but give credence to the fact that civilians have died in these bombings. But we already knew that. But consider the alternative and weigh your options. I think you will agree that the drones are the least destructive.**

Funny, if the Talibans of Afghanistan were monsters, why did we ally with them for 8-10 years? Also that period was a period of relative calm. What you and the Americans do not understand is that the Taliban WILL be back in power as soon as the US leaves Afghanistan. Do you think its smart fighting them for another decade?

Pakistan created this mess by allying with the US post 9/11. Love them or hate them, but the Talibs made a PRINCIPLED stand in claiming to protect OBL. Principled stands – something that is not in the vocabulary of the beyghairat Pakistani leadership.

We all have raw emotions. But allowing your emotions too overtake your better judgement is a recipe for disaster. Its people who can control their emotion and look at things logically who succeed. A simple reading of history would tell you that. Even Islamic history would teach you that emotion should not take precedence over wisdom and logic.

Pakistan had lost sovreignty a long time ago. No Pakistani soldier would dare step foot in Taliban controlled areas without and entire contingent to back him. To say Pakistan is has lost sovereignty due to the drones is disingenuous. The reason the drones are flying is because these areas are no longer within Pakistans sovereignty.

Who decides the NYT and LAT are legitimate? The world. The fact that even you quote them when their opinion suits your interests. For example, when the NYT questions whether the claim that civilians have not been killed, you use that to support your claim. Sources that are bias and not worthy of being quoted are instantly outed. FOX news for example, among others. You dont like what they say because the truth doesn’t fit your narrative.

Pakistan is NOT under attack from drones, and its not civilians that are being targeted, it Taliban. The very same Taliban that are killing Pakistani civilians. We know the crimes of the Taliban. Do you have any source to support what you claim?

The Taliban are monsters, not because I say so, but because they are. Their actions speak for themselves. These beasts are the enemies of Pakistan and humanity. That we were allied with them is because our leaders are fools and badmash. They are no different from the beasts they created. Now those beasts are attacking their masters, and innocne t Pakistanis are caught in the middle. If the US is doing us a favor of eliminating these monsters, why should we stop them?

America lost 3000 innocent people on 9/11. Funny how when its your people who die, you are the first to rise in their defense, but the US is expected to lie down and accept the deaths of of her people?
Did you thnk they wouldnt come after the Taliban who support these Arab terrorists? And what would you have the Pakistanis do? Pakistan had no options, and to think otherwise is foolish.
The Taliban took a princiled stance, but their principled stance lead to the deaths of Thousands of people all in the protection of OBL, who ended up death anyway. Such is fate of those who are prideful. Pride is a sin and it lead to the destruction of a nation.