Hafeez's bowling is not good enough to get him a permanent place in the team. Either he delivers as an opener or he should be dropped.
Well we got the usual 50 runs from the first 15 overs today and South Africa have just raced to 94-1 in reply in the same number of deliveries. This really needs to be addressed.
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*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
Part of the gripe I have with Miandad's tactics are that he has demonstrably discouraged attacking play by asking players to slow down on tv, and both Yaasir and Imran Nazir were dropped after getting out hitting attacking shots.
Hafeez's current strike rate after 20 ODI's is around 50% in favourable batting conditions. I think either he is being advised poorly or he isn't up to the job. In the next match I'd like to see him really going for it to see if he can turn up the heat when required.
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by slowing down he means to control their "over excitement" and avoid being 2 casual and over confident on the pitch. by no means i think he would want them to stop playing attacking shots.
as for hafeez i think he wont be able to deliver even if he playes more attacking. i say bring in farhat, he can bowl as well...
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*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
Well we got the usual 50 runs from the first 15 overs today and South Africa have just raced to 94-1 in reply in the same number of deliveries. This really needs to be addressed.
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ya i know that we're painfully slow in the first 15, but wouldn't u prefer 50/0 over 70/2 for instance. atleast what it does is it protects our middle order from the new ball. yes our middle order is pretty solid this series, but we have seen them collapse way 2 often when exposed to the new ball. so i think the coach's tactics are gd.
but then we shd atleast not lose any wicket during that time [ideally]. i also think hafeez shd be dumped! that mite just be a simple answer to the problem! he has been given a lot of chance, and that doesnt happen often with pakistani newcomers!
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*Originally posted by akpower: *
ya i know that we're painfully slow in the first 15, but wouldn't u prefer 50/0 over 70/2 for instance. atleast what it does is it protects our middle order from the new ball.
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That's fine if you can guarantee getting to 50-0 every time, but it's only happened once so far this series. Even then it's important for a player to go on and up the rate before getting out like Yaasir Hameed did. Otherwise you leave too much pressure on middle order players.
As for the new ball, my view is that with the field in first 15 overs, there are plenty of opportunities to pick up boundaries AND defend the good deliveries as the South Africans have shown. Our best ever ODI opening pair were Aamir Sohail and Saeed Anwar and they didn't hang about, they took the attack to the opposition.
I'm not saying we need Afridi type sloggers, I'm saying we need to get the right balance. Afridi's ODI strike rate was 100%, Hafeez's is 50%. What you need is something in between and most successful ODI batsmen have a strike rate of around 70-80%. After 20 matches playing on mostly good batting tracks I think a 50% strike rate is not good enough.
I am surprised so many people disagreed with Xtreme on this one. I think we definatley need to drop Hafeez and bring in another opener who can play a a little faster. The best chance to to get some "free" runs is in the first 15 overs when the field restrications are in place. In the last 10-15 overs you can hit out if u have wickets in hand but the field is more spread out so its more difficult then it is in the first 15 overs. We need someone who can take advantage of the field restrictions. Yasir Hameed is the kind of player who is better off setteling down before he launches full throttle, he is good at keeping the score board ticking.
Imran Nazir is young and immature. He needs some polishing otherwise he has all the talent in the world that makes a great batsman. Though for now we can give Salman Butt or Imran Farhat a chance. I would personally go for Imran Farhat as he can also be utilized as an extra bowler. Plus with Hameed and Farhat opening we will have a left hand / right hand combination that sokme times makes it difficult for bowlers to keep adjusting their line. Imran should be given a chance in this series as he displayed great from in the side match. If we werent going to hjave him play then we should have picked Butt or Hafeez to play in the side match.
I agree with LahoriMunda here, we do need to rest Hafeez. Need a better opener than 50% with no guarantee of scoring more than 20 (50 is a BIG one for this guy).
We all agree that Hafeez needs to be rested. The point is who should take his place?
Hafeez has retained his place only because he is a useful bowler. That's fair enough but if he is going to keep his place on that account, then he should be given instructions of looking to play a more attacking game as an opener so as not to handicap the team with his lack of positive batting.
If he isn't capable of doing it (he was out on the first shot he hit in anger on Tuseday) then someone else needs to be moved up the order who can take advantage, Rashid Latif has the game otherwise maybe Younis Khan could have a go.
These are the only scenarios I can see him keeping his place in the team, the only other option is to bring in another opener.
I don't see anything wrong with Miandad's tactics. The last three matches yielded over 5 runs an over and most importantly we were not bowled out.
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*Originally posted by funguy: *
I don't see anything wrong with Miandad's tactics. The last three matches yielded over 5 runs an over and most importantly we were not bowled out.
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In both the matches we won It was individually brilliant knocks from the late middle order which won the game. The first match we scored 42 runs from the last two overs otherwise we would have been comfortably beaten. If our middle order can guarantee to do that every game then fine I'll agree to the go slow approach.
Actually others try to learn from their mistakes and we try and learn only if we loose. Just because we won a couple of matches so all is well. The opening is not getting critsized becasue we are winning so nobody cares a whole lot. Even with those brilliant batting performances from the middle and lower middle order if we had lost people would be jumping up and down about the opening stands and Hafeez in particular would have gotten a lot of **** about it. I think we need to realize regardless of winning or loosing we have a problem that needs ot be fixed before it gets too late. Hafeez has failed time and again its time to give way to someone else.
Rmember Final of WC 1992. Pakistan at the end of 40 overs were 150 for 3. They scored 99 in the last 10. A team can easily score 100 in last 10 if there are 6 or 7 wkts in hand. It may not happen all the time but chances are good.
fungo the final of 1992 Imran and Miandad were doing a repair job in difficult batting conditions. We are talking about flat batting tracks in Pakistan here.
Xtremo, it was only an example. Plus, all the tracks in ODIs are batting tracks. If a team doesn't lose quick early wickets, chances are they will end up scoring a decent 250 to 280. Which is a formiddable target to chase.
250-280 is not really a formidable target, it's a defendable target. And you are relying on individual brilliance from someone to get you there.
The other problem is that you are putting a ceiling of 270-280 as a maximum score, whereas teams often score 300+ these days on good tracks.
What happens when you come up against teams who can chase 270's? We posted that against India but their openers got to 50 in 5 overs whereas we struggle to make that in 15.
250-280 is defendable MOST of the time. It will yield better winning percentage over a period of time. Going all guns in the first 15 involoves more risk taking then defending a 250-280.
I would rather take 8 out of 10 innings of 250+ then 2 out of 10 of 300+ and 6 innings below 200.
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*Originally posted by funguy: *
Xtremo, it was only an example. Plus, all the tracks in ODIs are batting tracks. If a team doesn't lose quick early wickets, chances are they will end up scoring a decent 250 to 280. Which is a formiddable target to chase.
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280 in 95% of the matches is a winning target and if the team has wickets in hand than the target is acheivable. Every now and then the middle order will collpase and they will not get to the target and therefore lose the match. That is the risk the team has to take.
What India did in the match against Pakistan on march 1 is not the norm but the exception. We have to prepare our team for the norm and not the execption. If our bowlers had applied themselves that day or Razzaq had held on to the catch the result might have been different.
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*Originally posted by funguy: *
Going all guns in the first 15 involoves more risk taking then defending a 250-280.
I would rather take 8 out of 10 innings of 250+ then 2 out of 10 of 300+ and 6 innings below 200.
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I have already said that going all guns isn't the answer either. Just a normal strike rate of 70% will do fine. With a restricted field most teams achieve 70+ runs in the first 15 overs without going hell for leather. 50 runs off 15 is abnormally slow and my view is if it's happening on a regular basis then something's wrong. It's not like we are keeping the wickets intact every time either.
I think xtreme has a point, The simple reason Pakistan has been able to score 250+ runs is because of solid middle order performance in every game.
Pakistan batting has been extremely slow in the first 15 overs and in the first two game they lost wickets as well. I would rather have 70/1 than 50/1 in first 15 overs.