Re: Mental myopia…
Re: Mental myopia...
Lajawab your posts have been always long winded, with no point, please concise them as we can reply in earnest ….Yar kya masla hai tujhay…
Re: Mental myopia...
Oh please people. The thread this poppet refers to was most likely a dare thread, as is this one. Either that or he needs a wife. Really bad. Aqal thikaanay pe aajayga.
Re: Mental myopia…
Yep these were the reasons for the fall of Islamic khilafa…allowing gay poets to flourish…& marrying dozens of non-muslim wives with mehfils & wines…why didn’t that open mindedness save the khilafa then???..only beacuse these heaps of sins were too much to save anyone anything…
Re: Mental myopia...
Bravo el matador, Bravo
Re: Mental myopia...
I stand by each and every comment I made in the previous thread and do not feel sorry at all. I am sick and tired of people portraying their holier than thou attitude and shoving ayats and ahadith down people'd throats on every chance they get while still post perverted threads about lesbianism and how they are okay with lesbianism which is clearly haram is islam. Their perverted theories and justifications that what lesbians are doing isnt much, they are just pleasuring each other and not having sex. Applying the same theory, I only encouraged u to go pleasure the chowkidaar, nothing wrong with that. Hell! if he has a dog, pleasure the dog as well, nothing wrong with that right?! ofcourse ur not having sex.
I have no respect for people like you. Practice what you preach or stop shoving your beliefs on others!
You aren't worth my time. Its good to know you got to read what I had to say,. cos I thought the mod editted it before you had a chance.
Most of these guys in this thread didnt even get to read what I wrote,, yet you can see their response... why do you think that is??? you obviously have a problem. Dont blame me if you fail to see.
And what exactly are you on about??? I used your own theory and gave you some excellent suggestions... since the maulana sahib has already declared what he thinks is 'having sex' and what is just 'pleasuring'. But hay, since you are the pinnacle of piety, your ofcourse not ok with homosexuality being such a great muslim n all, what do you think lesbians are???and using your own extensive research and knowledge on the subject, if your only pleasuring the chowkidaar and not having sex, its all good, isnt it??? so why feel so offended then??? or is it just cos it was a chowkidaar and not a hot paan wala??
who made you the authority on defining whats ok and whats not ok??? and after seeing your holier than thou threads left, right and centre, you think I should tolerate the rubbish you uttered? Its YOU who needs to educate yourself more my friend... because you seem like the 'ignorant fool' to me.
Re: Mental myopia...
oh and FF, please dont edit it this time, I just conveyed him the same message but I was being very educated and I presented my case amicably and made sure its a legible and legitimate argument this time just as he wants all of his fellow muslims to be. Promise. Because ofcourse if I dont make these arguments in a nicer way like I just did, all my years of education would go to waste, and I dont want that now do I?
Re: Mental myopia...
^^
Some scholars believe masturbation to be Haram like the Hanafis and some scholars believe masturbation is OK like the Shafiee's...In both schools of thought, instead of cursing each other out, the scholars present their cases based on knowledge present and not present...It's up to the believers to pick out which case they find to be the strongest and stick with...
Similarly, I presented a case I never shoved it down anyone's throat...You on the other hand became personal, insulted me and said things which had nothing to do with the argument I posted...Did you wish to shove something down my throat? I didn't...I simply said what I believed was my opinion...
If, as in any argument, you had presented your case like someone who knew how to counter an argument in a civilised manner, surely, you would have not only presented yourself as a proper person but as someone knowledgable as well...For which I am glad you don't have time to waste on me...God only knows what you would have said then...
If you don't agree with someone about something it is better to counter that with a logical and clear argument if you wish convince someone instead of abusing someone based on what they believe in...Your response was shamefully arrogant and ignorantly worded...
And since knowledge dictates humility in speech your response was and is, a good measure of your intellect...
Re: Mental myopia...
How can you honestly think that lesbianism is okay on the grounds that its technically not "sex"?
There are ayahs on guarding your private parts except from that person you're married to, and then there are further ayahs that tell you who you are allowed to marry. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that lesbianism is haraam.
How you can excuse the act by calling it an act of "pleasure" rather than an act of "sex" is just strange. How you can even group it into a different category is also strange.
I've said this in my journal actually, and I'll say it here. You are not a female. So stop trying to analyze how it must feel for a female. When you actually are lucky enough to get married, you should ask your wife how it feels, and she'll be able to have a more candid discussion with you on the topic. Other than that, I think these topics are just silly excuses for people to discuss topics that they would not dare bring up in real life. You really need to get married, and take a load off your shoulders.
Re: Mental myopia...
and you again, very conveniently decide to ignore why it happened. Why do you think people react to you that way?? Am I the only one whos ever reacted this way? If the topic was worth discussing or arguing about, I would have made an effort. I was showing my disgust, and I have a right to show it, considering its YOU its coming from. If it was coming from any maaja gaama, I wouldnt have even bothered replying, but since you are the all knowing, and the bestest of muslims, I had to put you in place for even trying to justify all that being OK. Masturbation doesnt even come close. Homosexuality is haram. Period. Dont try and justify ur perverted theories about 'pleasuring' being OK. If it is, pleasuring a chowkidaar or a dog would hardly be offensive to you.
Its ok. I have no intention to badmouth anyone at all. If its the way I said things, I apologize. But dont hate me for hating the way u justified things that are clearly haram.
I didnot say anything that had nothing to do with the argument. I made all those suggestions based upon your own theories which were OK with you incase of women or lesbians. Point out one thing thats irrelevent.
In any case, I am sorry. I admire people with knowledge, but i resent what you did and I made that known.
Goodbye and goodluck.
Re: Mental myopia...
PCG...
There are Ayahs about Hijab and covering up oneself modestly, to guard oneself from the company of non-Mahrams, yet when we see people not following that, we don;t hear a peep from anyone...People are even willing to listen and ignore what the likes of Amina Wadud and Irshad Manji have to say...
If, however, for whatever reason, a religious person for any purpose brings up an issue which our 'mods' don't agree with, that person becomes the target of very personal insults and attacks...
Bhai, the issue in this thread is not lesbianism...That thread is closed due to some heavy slanders aimed at me by some people who can't form a coherent sentence to counter someone's opinions which differ from them...This thread is about something else...
You have your opinions and I have mine...If you wish to open up a thread about it, I'd be more than willing to support or negate your views...
However, be forewarned about being labelled and insulted...
Re: Mental myopia…
Woah, so you want ladies to cover up, but its not “sex” they’re performing if they’re going at it with each other?
Re: Mental myopia…
I am not the bestest of Muslims and never claimed to be one…I’ll counter anything I find differing with my views with whatever knowledge I have and that hardly makes me a good Muslim…
As for homosexuality, the Al-Fatiha foundation has a different view…For them, gayism is allowed in Islam…Of course, either we can start cursing and insulting them or present our case based on knowledge to correct them…
My lesbianism thread was based on the knowledge of silence prevalent in all 3 Abrahamic faiths, which includes Islam…
Gayism is absolutely a nono, even it it means ‘pleasuring’ a chowkidaar or his dog…There are no ifs, and or buts about it…Male sexual liaisons of any kind in Islam are definitely and irrefutably Haram…
My not finding anything wrong with lesbianism has nothing to do with Islam…It could be due to my ignorance or ill-knowledge…But, how do you counter that ignorance and ill-knowledge? By insults?
If you wish to counter **my **not finding anything wrong with lesbianism, then let’s have your arguments…Based on your knowledge, not based on how well you can libel or attack me…
Re: Mental myopia...
Because if you were allowed to shag your sister-in-Faith, then the Quran would have allowed other women to be a woman's "na-mehrams" or people she can marry with. You would also have seen examples of it in the Sunnah, since you people love to cite Hadith's for examples.
If you can find a lesbian example, then please put it forth. And if I'm not mistaken, there is a direct verse in the Quran that says specifically that your same gender is not allowed to you.
Homosexuality is an umbrella term that encompasses male-male relationships, and female-female relationships.
Placing a female-female relationship as an exception to homosexuality is actually an impression and cultural value that can be traced back to the greco-roman empire.
Re: Mental myopia...
PCG, a crude topic can be made to at least feel less crude...'Shag' could very well have been worded as, 'intercourse'...
Anyways...The idea behind the discussion was, that I find nothing in any record about outrightly forbidding lesbianism...
We know, no Muslim is allowed to drink...Do all Muslims practice it? No Muslim is allowed to gamble...Do all Muslims resist it?
Good Muslims however, stay away from it...Better Muslims even stay away from that which is dubious, so if Islam is to be brought into the argument, let us assume that no Muslimah practices lesbianism...
But since we know, many 'mods' practice what is outrightly forbidden, such as drinking and gambling, then what is to stop them from practicing lesbianism and even homosexuality?
If I had said that I was OK with homosexuality or drinking or gambling, then I had every right to be insulted, for I spoke about something which is clearly defined...But I did not...
I said that I, personally, though disgusted, find nothing wrong with lesbianism, without bringing religion or morals into it...
So, let's bring in Islam...What does Islam say about lesbianism? If at this point, someone brings me a Quranic verse or a Hadith, I would at that instant, become the most vociferous opponent of it...
OK...Let's bring in Morals...Morally, I find it disgusting...One woman pleasuring the other is indeed obscuring of natural laws...
I do not condone lesbianism, let's get this one thing straight...Lesbianism for me is a questionable issue...And for matters known only to me, I was thrusted into thinking about it after a rather amusing and ironic circumstance...So I posted that thread...
I was never expecting personal attacks about an issue which I find obscure and about which I sought clarifications...
Seems I chose a buch of people who would rather kill the messenger...And I still remain obscure about it...
Once again, let me reiterate...I find lesbianism disgusting probably as much as back biting or taking interest...Yet people indulge in it...There is no prohibition about talking about them though, and that was my intention...
But the thread is locked, so good riddance...Further misunderstandings have been avoided...
Re: Mental myopia...
Mate, I seriously cant believe you.
Is lesbianism not homosexuality??? When one girl is 'pleasuring' the other, is she protecting her private parts from the other??? Are you seriously telling me as a grown up adult, that you dont consider a woman having sex with another woman as homosexuality??? A woman with her satar consisting of everything except her hands and her face is there naked with another woman, having sex with her, and you think thats OK??? and that its not homosexuality??? I cant believe I am still arguing with you...
This is what u said....
"If I had said that I was OK with homosexuality or drinking or gambling, then I had every right to be insulted, for I spoke about something which is clearly defined...But I did not..."
you did exactly that, and you got exactly what you deserved.
No more posts from me on this after this....
Re: Mental myopia...
Allah
Re: Mental myopia...
Ghalban kisi ne larkiyon ko girls room se khofzada hiran ki tarah bhaghte howay nahi daikha, yeh to un larkiyon se pochain jo ‘zaroorat ke haton’ majbor ho kar mens room estemal kar layti hain par lesbians ke dar se girls room jana gawara nahi kartein.
Mazhab or akhlaqiyat ke sub usool aik taraf rakh bhi dain phir bhi aik asool ne rahna hi hota hay ….. or woh’ hay marzi ka usool.
Koi marzi se cho’ay (sub acha hay)
Koi marzi ke baghair cho’ay (sub ghalat hay ….or bohut hi ghalat hay).
Re: Mental myopia...
Further arguments from me would seem like me condoning or approving lesbianism, which I am not and don't...
So let us leave it at that...