Hajj is considered to be one of the five pillars of Islam and millions from all over the world do so every year and almost a billion/day pray in one form or another facing the holy mosque. Sounds very religious and pious. However, if you lift that black shrowd and look underneath, you see a square of concrete and stones. So muslims are bowing in front of stones !! Well you can argue that its a house of God built by Abraham and then renovated by Mohammed, and in fact we are paraying to God in His house. So far so good, but then why face towards this block of concrete? Isn’t this the same thing that jews are doing at the Western Wall, or Hindus in their homes. Are these various symbols or idols that we pray infront of? Give me your thoughts.
Hi Amy
I'm wondering if you are really getting answers to the question that your raising. And is it helping you in any way or not. And do u think that it is really important to raise such questions, when most of the people over here might feel being challenged.
I'm just curious to know how is it helping u when u question the believes of people.
Waiting for your reply.
take care
bye
Kaaba is the Qibla i.e. the direction Muslims face during their prayers. It is important to note that though Muslims face the Kaaba during prayers, they do not worship the Kaaba. Muslims worship and bow to none but Allah. It is mentioned in Surah Baqarah:
“We see the turning of thy face (for guidance) to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque: wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction.”
[Al-Qur’an 2:144]
For instance, if Muslims want to offer Salaah (Prayer), it is possible that some may wish to face north, while some may wish to face south. In order to unite Muslims in their worship of the One True God, Muslims, wherever they may be, are asked to face in only one direction i.e. towards the Kaaba. If some Muslims live towards the west of the Kaaba they face the east. Similarly if they live towards the east of the Kaaba they face the west.
The Muslims were the first people to draw the map of the world. They drew the map with the south facing upwards and north downwards. The Kaaba was at the centre. Later, western cartographers drew the map upside down with the north facing upwards and south downwards. Yet, Alhamdullilah the Kaaba is at the centre of the world map.
When the Muslims go to Masjid-e-Haram in Makkah, they perform tawaaf or circumambulation round the Kaaba. This act symbolises the belief and worship of One God, since, just as every circle has one centre, so also there is only one Allah (swt) worthy of worship.
Regarding the black stone, hajr-e-aswad, there is a hadith, attributed to the illustrious companion of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Umar (may Allah be pleased with him).
According to Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, book of Hajj, chapter 56, H. No. 675. Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) said,
“I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit nor harm. Had I not seen the Prophet (pbuh) touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you”.
At the time of the Prophet, people even stood on the Kaaba and gave the ‘adhaan’ or the call to prayer. One may ask those who allege that Muslims worship the Kaaba; which idol worshipper stands on the idol he worships?
I hope you found this helpful.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
A lot of this info came from the scholar Dr Zakir Naik from the Islamic Research Foundation in Mumbai.
http://www.irf.net
They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?
First of all, u answered ur question in your own post to a certain extent. Its not where you pray....its WHO you pray to. Secondly, yes, jews do that same with the western wall, and christians to the vatican perhaps. Muslims dont worship the brick walls in the center of Masjid-al-haram. They worship the Allah who owns that masjid, and the fact that all muslims in the world face that structure that we call Ka'ba signifies the unified faith of the Muslims...nothing else. Its important for all muslims to worship the same God and bow in the same direction with the same God in mind, cause thats the most basic attribute that seperates Islam from a lot of other religions.
Amy , it's not MECCA, it's MAKKAH
Please keep that in your mind.
Na Hota mein, Tu Kya Hota
[This message has been edited by Wadi (edited November 14, 2000).]
u know i was thinking its good to have people like amy..it makes me love my fellow muslims even more
Yasin,
I think a genuine question deserves a genuine answer, if you can't answer it fine. But don't make a mockery of it. I don't see anything wrong with asking questions.
Wadi,
Think you could be any less polite?
[quote]
Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
**Yasin,
I think a genuine question deserves a genuine answer, if you can't answer it fine. polite?**
[/quote]
I guess u are right, this whole religion thing is very complicated for me u understand. Relationship between Man and God is alot simpler than that. Keep it simple. And I'm not looking for any arrugments on that.
Take care
bye
.
[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited November 14, 2000).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Yasin:
**Hi Amy
I'm wondering if you are really getting answers to the question that your raising. And is it helping you in any way or not. And do u think that it is really important to raise such questions, when most of the people over here might feel being challenged.
I'm just curious to know how is it helping u when u question the believes of people.
Waiting for your reply.
take care
bye**
[/quote]
The problem with you is that you are assuming a lot of things. You have no idea about my knowledge or anything else. Yet many people, including you, have drawn a lot of conclusions about me. I am not about to be intimidated by any rhetoric or off the cuff remarks. Actually I usually expect that from people. Controversy is my middle name.
There are several legitimate questions about Islam and Pakistan, which was created on the basis of Islam. I have just touched the very superficial crust. If I start digging, the debate will not end and i know that because there are no answers to many of the things in Islam. I haven't seriously debated any issue with any one here so far, because I haven't found any one with that type of intellectual capacity. Partypooper has given some accurate responses and I acknowledge that but his knowledge is limited and biased and therefore debate becomes a match. Any way partypooper seems to have some maturity and ability to maintain composure. As for I am concerned, being a woman, I beleive in the words of former prime minister of Israel, who said, " Response will be swift and severe", so help you god.
Edited twice to correct the spelling and accurately reflect my opinion.
[This message has been edited by amy (edited November 14, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by amy (edited November 14, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by amy (edited November 14, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited November 14, 2000).]
Partpooper:
My question was in connection with bowing in front of the stone, meaning is it not stone worshipping?
The Prophet is quoted as saying, "jews play the horn, christians ring the bell and you just go and call them for prayer and they will come". That's how azan came about and actually that's all it means. Come to prayer, god is great, mohammed is the prophet. (in a nutshell). Now for people to hear it, the person has to stand at a higher ground and so the that stone was used.
Jerusalem is the center of earth and not mecca.
For muslims to face one way, well it'll be much easier to look up towards the sky and pray after all that's where heavens are.
and there are rituals of prayer and claims that prayer is different for men and women, a lot of nonsense there but I'll continue latter.
**Wadi,
Think you could be any less polite?
**
Yes GFQ i could be down right rude, however, i’ve controlled my emotions 'cause of the issue at hand. Amy and the likes have no intention to investigate the truth. Her/His only intention is to smear the name of Islam and Muslims, as can be seen by His/Her many posts.
**Don’t need any advice about English. There are only two ways of spelling it, mecca or mekkah but there is no such thing as makkah so stop telling me about MY language.
**
Do i need to say anything after that? I mean there are a lot of other arguments that you could have presented that would’ve been a lot more interesting. For Example, why do Muslims throw stones at the pillars. Don’t they represent the devil for them? .. or maybe Amy you just haven’t hit upon that site yet. Tell you what search for “Hate Islam” and you’d find it
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
For why i said it’s “MAKKAH” not “MECCA” i’m pasting an article that hope Ya’ll find interesting.
Makkah – not “Mecca”
Abu Atiyyah, South Africa
The holiest city for the Muslims is Makkah-tul-Mukarramah. It is not “Mecca”. Saudi Arabia had officially changed the spelling of the name of this city to “Makkah” a few years ago after realizing the derogatory usage of the word by the Western media and Western authors. And that is the way it should be. We do not like it if our own name is misspelled or mispronounced. How can we then allow it when the same is done to any of our most important icons?
Unfortunately many people, even some Muslims are still careless about it. It is increasingly being observed with a degree of concern that all kinds of businesses are (mis-)using the name “Mecca”. “Motor-Mecca”, “The Mecca Group”, etc. It should be respectfully pointed out to such persons that the usage of the word “Mecca” to name their businesses is offensive. A billion and a half Muslims the world over, hold this holy city in the highest regard and veneration. To desecrate the name of this holy city by abusing it in this fashion is not acceptable.
Recently, The British Rank Corporation, which owns a chain of gambling and entertainment shops under the name of “Mecca”, removed the name from its shop fronts as a result of protests from British Muslims. Muslims of Luton in the UK had protested against the defamatory use of the name of this holy city.
In most cases it is done out of ignorance, not deliberately. If pointed out politely but firmly, most companies respond favorably by changing the name.
Muslims should also be encouraged to adopt the proper spelling of Makkah, rather than the old, incorrect “mecca” version. Madinah should rather be spelled as Madinah than being spelled as “medina”. Principals and educators of educational institutions such as Madrasahs, Islamic Schools, academies, Muslim writers, authors, researchers, scholars are to be encouraged to use the correct spelling.
Muslims have a duty to be vigilant and decisive in acting against anything that may be deemed sacrilegious, blasphemous or disrespectful to Islam or Muslims, all over the world. Every town, city, province, country should have a dedicated and committed group of people to fulfil this important “watch-dog” role for the sake of the Ummah and Islam.
Na Hota mein, Tu Kya Hota
Amy, comments that only serve the purpose of petty, superficial arguments are not appreciated. Please keep that in mind.
Wadi:
Saudi government is not the custodian of my reigious belief
Amy, . The Kaba serves as a direction, to which we turn aourselves for prayer....One God therfore one point to where everyone directs there prayer.
[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited November 15, 2000).]
K, guys, so someone is asking lots of whys, how comes kinda stuff. What's the big deal if someone wants to ask.......it's good to ask lots of questions some times.
Just matters as to what you want to get out of the answers of those questions..which sorta brings to what i wanna lead to..
The thing is Amy, why question some particular things..? Like, honestly, i used to ask myself/others the same thing: as to why Allah orders us through the Quran to face the Kaabah as the Qibla, rather than facing the heaven's, or facing Aqsa mosque. & you know what? there is no point wondering about such...physical things. There are more areas of Islam that ppl should bother using their mental power one -- like how Islam affects the people themselves, or the communities themselves, on a human untangible/sould kinda stuff. or whatever. & the thing you wrote about the Kaabah..you did say so yourself....ppl praying towards God..it's more of the symbol that we're praying towards God rather than the stone themselvs. It's an order from God to face the stones; He has His reasons for ordering it & we follow it.
Not that i'm comparing Allah to people or anything, but lemme give a small sort-analogy:
it's like, your mum telling you to do something.....you (hopefully) do it with no questions asked. Cuz you know, she is authoritical...& you respect her so much, you do what she says.
Dr Who.
I respect your emotions, and i don't agree with Amy either. I think her intention is ONLY to ARGUE and not to seek the turth. However, too many issues are being discussed in this post ( I admit my fault, the issue of "MAKKAH and not MECCA" should not have been started ).
I would like to inquire opinions on the question at hand though. It is claimed by non-muslim (esp. hindus) that since muslims throw stones at the pillar which represents SATAN, they are doing the same thing hindus do. Hindus claim that they don't worship the idols but the idols represent "GOD" to them. Amy has extended this interpetaion to include the Ka'bah and Makkah.
I would post my opinion later, however, i would like to hear all of yours .
W'salaam
Na Hota mein, Tu Kya Hota
Amy, sorry for not responding to your concerns quickly enough… a bit busy.
I will try to get back to your response.
Your question is a good question and therefore it deserves a good answer.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?
Amy:
[quote]
why face towards this block of concrete? Isn't this the same thing that jews are doing at the Western Wall, or Hindus in their homes. Are these various symbols or idols that we pray infront of?
[/quote]
The answer is: only superficially.
"Remember We made the House a place of assembly for men and a place of safety; and take ye the station of Abraham as a place of prayer; and We covenanted with Abraham and Isma'il, that they should sanctify My House for those who compass it round, or use it as a retreat, or bow, or prostrate themselves (therein in prayer)."
Surah Al-Baqara 2:125---Al-Quran