Just so i’m not going mad!!!
This is what you wrote:
And this is what I wrote:
They are changed yaar. tut tut yaar. I hope this wasn’t deliberate
snipped
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited October 26, 2000).]
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**
ramesha said:
2. Who Are the "Ahlul Bayt"?
Many people were related to the Prophet both by blood and marriage as well as by soul and spirit. But the term "Ahlul Bayt" as used by the Qur'ãn and the Prophet does not apply to all of them. We see that Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) clearly applied the Qur'ãnic term "Ahlul Bayt" to four people: Fãtima, 'Ali, Hasan and Husayn (peace be upon them all).
The first verse (33:33) is of purification (tathír):
"Verily Allãh intends to keep away the abomination from you, O the Ahlul Bayt, and purify you a thorough purification."
**
[quote]
agreed!
::: you know its very easy to change nicks, but its very hard to give up bad habits.
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited October 26, 2000).]
**
then give up your bad habits buddy instead of changing name from “nanga” to “watcher” to “zalim” to “YAZID”(l.a)
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
**
[This message has been edited by Cool Guy (edited October 26, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Cool Guy (edited October 28, 2000).]
*::: Shair meyaan lagta hai aap ko izzat zaib nahin daytee *
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited October 27, 2000).]
Zalim baitey salam,
Do you have a problem with me brother?
Do you have any psychological disorders?
Wondering.
::: I wonder, when people have nothing to say, they simply transforms to another nick, its pretty cool eh !
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited October 26, 2000).]
** I wish you had a gallon of Imaan **
[This message has been edited by Cool Guy (edited October 26, 2000).]
::: I wish you had an ounce of taqwa
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited October 26, 2000).]
Give it up, Zalim aka Watcher aka Nanga. We all know you now
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by Cool Guy (edited October 26, 2000).]
**hahahah got you. MR HUMBLE, how many nicks you want to try. Why don’t you simple stuck to one and debate intellectually.
Hey ADMIN Why cant you fix this guy for good. He is not only defaming his faith but also the Forum repute. **
Give it up, Zalim aka Watcher aka Nanga. We all know you now
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Ramesha,
Are you an Alim or scholar? Just wondering because you seem to have an in depth knowledge about Islam. This part of your post is pretty interesting to me specially:
**
3. "Ahlul Bayt Not A Tribal Concept
What I have stated above is not a new interpretation; I have just summarized the arguments of the Shí’a faith supported by reports from the Sunnis that have existed for centuries. And so I was surprised to see what the learned scholar had written about the concept of Ahlul Bayt:
“The shi’a took advantage of the intimate historical relationship of 'Ali with Muhammad and of the old Arab tribal concept of ahl al-bayt (people of the household)-the family from whom chiefs were chosen-and zealously supported the candidacy of the 'Alids…”[83]
It does not behove a person from Shí’ite background to say that the Shí’a took advantage “of the old Arab tribal concept of ahl al-bayt”! So now the concept of Ahlul Bayt becomes a concept of the pre-Islamic/jãhiliyya era that was used by the Shí’as to forward their claim about the imãmate of 'Ali and his descendants!
It is indeed sad that a scholar, from a Shí’í background, could not discuss the concept of Ahlul Bayt from the Qur’ãnic perspective but a non-Muslim scholar, Wilfred Madelung, has been able to discuss at length the importance that was given to the families of prophets before Islam and then deals with the Qur’ãnic verses specific to the Ahlul Bayt.[84] Although we disagree with Madelung’s broad definition of Ahlul Bayt we totally agree with his conclusion to that section in which he says, “The Qur’ãn advises the faithful to settle some matters by consultation, but not the succession to prophets. That, according to the Qur’ãn, is settled by divine election, and God usually chooses their successors, whether they become prophets or not, from their own kin.”[85]
**
It seems the learned Shí’a scholar is echoing the views of Marshall Hodgson and Fazlur Rahman. Marshall Hodgson writes, “The Alids-especially those descending from Fãtimah-came to be called Ahl al-Bayt, ‘people of the house’ (an old tribal term referring to the family from whom chiefs were chosen…”[86]
While commenting on the claim made by the Shí’as of Kufa that caliphate be restored in the family of 'Ali, Fazlur Rahman writes: “The motives that led to this curious legitimist claim on part of the Kufan Arabs are not very clear, except…the fact that the Prophet had been from the Banu Hashim came to be easily exploited.”[87] Fazlur Rahman implies that the concept of Ahlul Bayt (that is, 'Ali and the Prophet were from the Banu Hãshim) was “exploited” by the Kufan Shí’as to promote their claim for the imamate of 'Ali’s descendants.
Who took advantage of the pre-Islamic traditions in the dispute on caliphate? 'Ali was denied his rightful caliphate by the Quraysh on pretext of the supposed old Arab tradition that leadership goes to the older people and not to those who were relatively young. 'Ali, in comparison to Abu Bakr, was younger in age and therefore, on the basis of the old Arab tradition, was not suitable for leadership.[88] So it was the Quraysh who relied on the “old Arab tribal” tradition to usurp the caliphate from 'Ali bin Abi Tãlib.
...back to debate
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* Originally posted by Azam: ** I think those wives were even not worth mentioning in Quran, thats why Allah never mentioned their names or even used the word wives with appreciation.**
[/quote]
On the other hand you are yelling at me “go learn some manners to talk in an educated society”. Educated society, my foot. No doubt I am talking to a retarded society.
Please have some respect for the dignity of their exhaled position as “Mothers of the Faithful”. They are not like your class mates. GOT THAT?
[quote]
* Originally posted by Azam: ** So where is the word of appreciation for the wives of Prophet? Both the ayats you mentioned above…. "**
[/quote]
The expression “ähalybait” is the word of appreciation in verses [al-ahzaab:vv32-33]. GOT THAT MISTER? It applies principally and primarily to the Holy Prophet’s wives. This is quite clear from the context. Why are you denying, I don’t know. Perhaps it’s your beliefs, that is holding you back.
Likewise, in the whole Quran, Allah has used the same word “ählaybait” for the wives of the Prophets ONLY, see vv. [11:73] and [28:12].
Q. IF THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE TO YOU THEN PLEASE ELABORATE THE MEANING OF ‘AHLAYBAIT’, IN THE LIGHT OF QURAN.
*PS 1:: Dear 'Humble' one (Shair/CoolGuy/whoever), don’t repeat things again and again. Answer the question sensibly and don’t try to deliberately distract the readers.*
PS 2::* About Quranic verses, please let them as it is, its not appropriate to edit them according to ones desire. *
PS 3::* Leave your personal life. I am waiting for your reply. thank you***
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited October 27, 2000).]
Who are you talking to ** Zalim aka Watcher aka nanga?**.
Are you asking me about my personal life? If so then address me by my name qibla allama zalim sahab.
Hello
hañ bhai hilla, hil raha hooñ. aap nay hilnay ko jo kaha, hum hil diyay
Assalam-u-alaikum,
This truly is an awesome site and this will be my first post on this site. Let me start by saying that i read most of the posts associated with this thread and others of the type associated with the SHIA-SUNNI discussion.
I don't consider myself a shia or a sunni ( not a truly revolutionary concept ) because i feel that the stereotypes associated with these titles are misleading and thus harmful to the whole cause of islam and muslims.
I admit my shortcommings in the knowledge of islam but just to put in my two cents, i'll start by clearing the misunderstandings about the two "sects"
1- "sunnis" hold Hazrat Ali (RD) and the "ahl-e-bayt" in the esteem as "shais" do.
I have to use the Shia-Sunni terminology for the sake of the supposed distinction here.
2- The Durood "Sunnis" rectite specifically involves asking allah to invoke peace upon the "ahl-e-bayt"
3- Not all "shias" curse the sahaba
4- Causing intentional injury to self is not a part ofthe actual "shia" religion.
5- "temporary marraiges" are not allowed in the "shia" religion.
6- The Quran is the same - no additions.
7- The Kalima is the same - the specific addition that some "sunnis" attribute to the "shia" sect is non existant.
.... I would like to go on but i'd rather be breif ....
So in Summary I BELIEVE that there is only one Islam and To divide one's self in to sects is a grave mistake.
Very true sister.
masha Allah sister ramesha. You have alot of knowledge, keep up the good work sis.
Qadam barhao ramesha!
Hum tumharey saath heiñ