May 11 election should get declared null and void.

In democracy, election is most important exercise. Governments get formed because of election and they loot and destroy the country for next 5 years (as happens in Pakistan). So, country cannot afford dhandli and suspicious or doubtful election results (one should give fair chance to loot and plunder, whoever country elects).

It is also important that all parties in country should accept election results as free and fair, else parties in Pakistan have capability to take the country into anarchy, and even break-up the country (all want to loot, so they lose a lot if unfairly kept away from office of looting). Certainly, if not break-up of Pakistan, lot of law and order problems can happen if parties reject election results.

Thus, for the purpose, if country needs to spend a lot on election, even hold election again, than that should happen. To get free and fair election, country can sacrifice few more months of caretaker government else it would be 5 years of unacceptable government (a government formed on the backing of dhandli … real or perceived).

The way things have turned up in this election (Pakistan 2013 election) with so much ‘dhandli’ at all constituencies and all parties complaining, I think election of 11 May should be declared ‘null and void’, and new election should be held in 60 to 90 days.

I do not think that countering ‘dhandlies’ is big problem. When there is will, there is fool-proof ways.

My suggestion: There should be one ‘head office of counting and compiling’ in every province that should compile NA and PA results. In ‘head office of counting’, just for observation and monitoring, there should be army men (at least one major general, two brigadiers, and several other officers), 2 to 3 representatives of each party contesting in province, foreign observers if required, media men from all major media houses, and two high court judges.

All polling stations should be connected to ‘head office of counting’ with internet (a simple phone line for the purpose is sufficient).

Polling stations should get accounted voting sheets. There should be no counting at polling stations, rather, polling stations should scan votes (voting sheets vote is casted) and send them to ‘head office of counting’ using internet. Polling station can do that every couple of hours.

Later, polling stations should send all used and unused voting sheets to ‘head office of counting’ that should be checked with number of sheets polling stations received (that means, no votes are discarded at polling stations or no sheet destroyed … well, if sheet got destroyed then polling station should send destroyed voting sheet with reason or circumstances that sheet got destroyed).

ID card has thumb prints. So, at head office of counting, thumb print on the voting sheet should get automatically compared with thumb print on voter’s list (can be done automatically on computer) and if thumb print is validated then votes get accounted automatically by computer, and the thumb print on record marked (no two votes using same thumb print). Computer should do accounting automatically.

Further, to bring transparency, just after voting finishes, computer sends the results to the media directly with total number of votes each candidate receives. That’s it, no human interference and thus no dhandli. Later, election commission can declare the result officially (after taking all legibility and illegibility of candidates on account)

[Note: If acceptable, instead of voting on voting sheets, a voter could vote on computer directly using his thumb print, though some believe that direct voting on computer is difficult for many voters, as many have not even seen computer in life.

Anyhow, following such procedure would get rid of all fake votes, as each vote would get accounted after verification that in that polling station the vote was valid, as some voter in that constituency had that thumb print who himself came to polling station to vote.]

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

I agree with you

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

In a democracy Peaceful protests are adorned. And political parties that indulge in threatening protestors, and then indulge in violence should be barred from contesting elections.

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

You mean, all parties that took part in 1977 non-peaceful protest against Z A Bhutto, claiming that election was rigged by Bhutto, resulting in Zia's martial law, should be barred from contesting election, and if any party from those parties or (clone parties that came out of those parties) that protested in 1977 won seats in 2013 election, their win should be declared null and void?

Hmm ... chalo, Nawaz Saheb tou ghar gayea, as Pakistan Muslim league should be banned too.:)

Waisay, JI, JUI (F), PML (F), PML (Z), PML (Q), and many other parties should get banned too. Aap nay achcha tareeqa nikala hay PTI ko power may lanay ka. :)

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

Relax. I'm just adding to what you said. All good things should be appreciated; all good amendments should be acceptable.

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

What the party protesting against Bhutto did ... created so bad law and order situation that most cities was given to army ... do you consider that good or bad?

Anyhow, if a party would lose due to dhandli then I think they have all right to protest until fair result comes out, regardless of their protest is peaceful or violent. If that would not happen, then with help of establishment election commission, judiciary, army and police, some parties would keep winning elections using dhandli. In such situation country wold get divided into two groups, one ruler and other ruled ... and no would like to get ruled.

We have to understand that Pakistan is not made so that one group rules other, rather, all should live equally with same rights and opportunities, without losing their own political, economical and social freedom.

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

You're going off-topic in your own thread. Feel free to create another thread to discuss sorrows of the past. Stay on topic here, or it will get locked for derailment.

Subject matter is concerning May 11, 2013. Keep to it.

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

well, I think you went off topic when talking about peaceful or violent protest, and banning parties on violent protests. I just replied to your post, that I believe was required, as from your post I felt you want people to accept dhandli because if they would only do peaceful protest than nothing would happen about dhandli (as no one care in Pakistan about peaceful protest due to dhandli).

My thread is nothing to do with party but it is about free and fair election (free from all dhandlis), that would stop cause of any protest and election acceptable to all.

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

In any free and fair election, the public has the right to protest for or against the electoral college/votes/ECP/institutions. Democracy gives people this right.

Any party that threatens civilian protestors for exercising their democratic right is in fact acting against the constitution/democracy and therefore disqualifies itself from the election. ECP should ensure that this rule is enforced, since we're talking about what should/should not happen in elections vis a vis calling them null and void.

Lets NOT give the violators of democratic practices a do-over; that would be akin to rewarding the perpetrators. That's not democracy; that's oppression.

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

Why protest if election is fair anyhow?

First thing is free and fair election ... protest comes when there is no free and fair election or it is assumed that election is not free and fair. All happens because voting circumstances and voting count is not fool-proof.

unfortunately, in non-free and fair election (as happen in Pakistan) some stupid parties protest against other parties, that is ridiculous. Their protest against contesting parties that causes the problem. Obviously, if someone would call me cheat, I would call him names too, and then violence starts.

Parties should not protest against each other. They should protest against election commission and law enforcement agencies, not other parties, as it is duty of election commission and law enforcement agencies to make sure that election is free and fair.

So, as my first post is, it ask for free and fair election ... and asking EC because they did not do the job properly, so they should declare election null and void. I did not blame parties of their rigging.

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

Freedom is afforded to all citizens. I, as a citizen, should be able to protest anything if I believe it to be unfair. Doesn't democracy guarantee me that? What you see Free does not abide it on others. I may reject others' claims of rigging, but I will respect their right to raise their voice against it.

Where is there room to threaten the public for voicing their disapproval? That's not democracy, that's thuggery.

Protest can be against institutions like ECP as well. It's not limited to political parties.

If Elections are to be considered null and void, all political parties that participated will need to request it, the provincial Governments will need to send recommendations to ECP, and prove the basis on which they consider these elections null and void. What are the chances of that happening? The matter can then also go to Supreme Court for interpretation of laws pertaining to Electoral Process.

It is best to swallow pride, and allow the system to cycle through. It can take a few rinse cycle to get out the undesired elements. Hopefully in the next elections, Pakistani voters will come out in even higher numbers, there would be in place more measures to ensure transparency so no rigging can take place.

It would be counter-productive to ask for a re-poll altogether because so many people traveled from abroad. It will be unfair to those voters if they are stabbed in the back because their circumstances may not allow them to travel to cast their votes again.

Unless of course ECP allows electronic voting for all overseas Pakistanis. How likely is THAT to take place?

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

Others have right to protest anything if they believe it to be unfair, but their protest should be directed towards those responsible, not those who are not responsible to them.

If shop keeper giving someone sweet at Rs 500 per kilo and want to give me same sweets for Rs 1000 per kilo, than I cannot start abusing and accusing the customer who got sweet at Rs 500 a kilo, as it is not my right to abuse and accuse that customer. If i would do that, then that customer has right to abuse me and also fight me. My protest should be with shop keeper.

Same with election. if I believe party X won seat due to dhandli, I should not threaten, abuse or accuse that party, as that provocation is not my right in any society (as individual or party), but I should complain to election commission (without naming that party), else that party would be justified to respond my abuses towards them with worse abuses, and then violence would start.

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

I have added to my post. It addresses much of what you said. Please re-read. You may find in it relevance to what you're saying.

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

i beg to differ. I do not agree that when there are reasons to believe that lot of dhandli happened in election, still election do not get declared null and void, just to keep the cycle going (as that would be allowing cycle of dhandli to continue, not election, democracy, or anything else to continue).

I also do not agree that parties can blame other parties, because no party is responsible of dhandli, even those who did dhandli, as they are trying to win election by hook or crook. It is duty of EC and law enforcement agencies to stop parties wrong practices. No party can complain about other party, rather they can only complain against those responsible to hold free and fair election (EC and law enforcement agencies).

Laws and constitution are made to make things fair for all citizens, but if some one under the protection of laws and constitution tries to exploit others, protect or defend their unfair practices or incompetency, then that is no excuse, as that in most cases starts protest in country against such laws and constitution. If Supreme Court judges give verdict that people should accept malpractices and corruption of politician or judges, than such verdict becomes meaningless.

When election happened, it was duty of EC to give free and fair election to all parties (not one or two parties). So, not all parties, but if any party can prove election to be not free nor fair in any constituency and claim that everywhere situation was same, then election should become null and void and should be held again.

To say that voters traveled long distance to vote and it is not right to ask them to vote again (or let the country deprived of their vote), then that is ridiculous argument. Voters problem cannot be an excuse to let a party rule 5 years that won election from dhandli (reward their dhandli) as there were no fool-proof system of election.

On the other hand, letting a party rule that came from result of dhandli is same as wasting votes of those who voted their opponent (these voters could have traveled from far away distance too ... maybe same voter you mentioned, who traveled to Pakistan to vote, but his vote became meaningless due to dhandli, his vote got wasted too).

Cause of dhandli is not political parties and they cannot be blamed. Cause of dhandli is EC and law enforcement agencies, so they should accept their incompetency, make election null and void, and hold election free and fair.

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

Like I said; counter-productive and not likely to happen because a huge segment of voters would be purposely deprived of casting their votes and exercising their right.

Cause of rigging is not political parties? so people just go in willy nilly and cast double/triple/quadruple votes because they like all the candidates or like one so much that they feel the urge to vote numerous times? Alright....I'm done. I don't enjoy talking to walls.

Follow due process, have all provincial governments send recommendations to ECP. See if they pay heed. Best of luck.

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

Well, when people won election due to dhandl than what meaning votes of huge segment mean? Zilch. Even if all have voted one candidate, other could have won due to dhandli, so voters 11th may vote was waste anyhow. Maybe if election would be free and fair, even half manage to vote again, their vote would be at least meaningful.

Why provincial government would heed and send recommendations to ECP when they are beneficiaries of dhandli in their province? Rather, they must have started planning to win next election using dhandli, and that would be most prudent planning anyhow if they want to come into power again after next election. :)

Re: May 11 election should get declared null and void.

The OP is really confused..
We have a procedure in place to complain against alleged rigging.. which must be followed strictly instead of calling the whole election null and void. After all every party is aspiring for rule of law.. and there is no provision in the law to declare the whole election null and void. In our country we have experimented too many times unconstitutional actions which do more damage then good.. which should be strictly avoided.

1) In Punjab mostly the election complaints are regarding the vote count. there is a procedure in the law if enough evidence is provided these vote counts can be done by ECP. They have ordered thumb verification soft ware also.. let them do their job in lawful manner now and be patient. The final decisions should be taken through courts and ECP tibunals instead of taking some unconstitutional route.. This is the demand of PTI, and every major political party also unlike the personal demand of the OP (which seems correlates more with OP's personal wishes than demands being made by real stake holders)...

2) Karachi is an other story.. Where armed gangsters belonging to a terrorist party took over more than 300 polling stations.. city wide. Here the problem is not the vote count but the actual stuffing of thappa ballot papers... Again In Karachi no unconstitutional measure should be taken. All the evidence of taking over the polling stations should be presented to ECP and judiciary. I doubt if the terrorist party will be able to defend their seats in Karachi. My bet is the courts and ECP will strike down the election on such seats and declare the election on these seats null and void. In such a scenario the terrorist party will resort to black mailing that their fake mandate is not being accepted for which the gangster leader of this party has already indicated. We should not bow down to these black mailing tactics by these gangsters.. and support the law in such eventual scenario.. Criminals must be dealt according to law..

Over all the elections should not be declared null and void through any unconstitutional way.. Law must be followed strictly.. Rigging allegations must not be used by any agency or establishment as a pretext to do unconstitutional acts.. Parties must start working on election reforms immediately for the next election with neutral ECP... who must be appointed immediately for next election with consensus of all the stake holders.. preferably a young, honest, and innovative guy should be selected for the job now...