im glade to say that in the mohorram of 06 zanjeer zani has started in the immabargah of Jafria association of CT in USA, it started with a few kids whch are 14,15,18,18,16 these kida are amazing all the hand matam is form them they have made there own anjuman and started zanjeer zani on chelum even though we dont have many people doiing ti or a dat set yet. But i would liek you guyz who live in new york boston maryland virgina to keep reading this for our shabdari next mohorram inshallah we will have it the weekend after 10th mohorram wich is before Khoie centers shabdari. mashallash last year shabadari was by far amazing. more will come
Thanks for sharing. What kind of chains do they use? Chromium or Steel? What is the recommended age to start Zanjeer Zani? Is there any pain in the process? How much sawab or love for Shuhada-e-Karbala does it increase? How many sins can it wash? When did zanjeer zani started first and which Imam recommended it?
I was wondering, because many people are very quick to dismiss other people’s beliefs (but I was not aware that they would go so far as to outlaw them!) and as a Muslim, there is an extra responsibility to tolerate other cultures even if they may not agree with yours. If you don’t, it makes it easier for others to be intolerate towards you
In the west, Muslims (including myself) constantly need to bend the rules of western society in order to practice Islam properly. I hear from so many of my friends that Muslims always have a “double standard” when they expect tolerance and understanding for their religion, and they don’t tolerate other people’s beliefs and cultures. I have spent countless hours trying to explain to people that tolerance is what will help Islam survive in the west in harmony.
I dont agree with the Zanjeer Zani and other forms of bodily torture.
Although please dont take it as an attack on the neeyat of the AzadaaraN e Hussain and the Shia faith itself. The graphic display of self torture has nothing to do with Islam. I offer my sincere apologies if my words sound otherwise
Think of the logic behind it, Wouldnt it make more sense to just donate all that blood to the blood banks where it can be used to save a few lives? If its the neeyat that counts, then I am sure that Allah(swt) will be more pleased if you use this very sacred occasion to donate blood in mass numbers to the blood banks.
I dont remember exactly, but i think a while ago I read an statement from a prominent Shia scholar in Iran who asked Shia gentlemen to donate blood to the blood banks instead of doing zanjeer zani in the moharram processions.
please i dont want to see any of this bs if you dont leik zzanjeer matam dont talk about it. were getting suawb an are we killing ourself, was bibi zainab killing herslef after she did qama to a stone answer that, and was imam hussain killing HIMSELF when he went into war or the toher 72 companians.
You guys aren't going to war, bibi zainab didn't use chains to hurt herself, her reaction was natural. We are told to follow Prophet Muhammed(saww), not bibi zainab(no doubt she was a great woman, and someone we shoudl respect alot and theres def alot to be learned from his family).
Allah FORBID us to do harm ourselves, suicide isn't HARAM for no reason.
Allah says, "...make not your own hands contribute to your destruction..." (Surah al-Baqarah 2:195); "...nor kill yourselves..." (Surah al-Nisaa 4:29)
What does this ayah mean to you?
Aren't there more constructive ways of doing good deeds?
I have heard many things like this from my non Muslim friends.
"It's hard for us to tolerate Muslims allowing Polygamy, it's hard for us to tolerate Muslims allowing stoning to death etc etc... because these go against our moral human values here in America" and by outlawing things like this, it is harder and harder for Muslims who follow the Quran to live in North America.
Just because you don't believe in something, doesn't make it wrong. trying to make something that another sect/ religion follows illegal, is not only inconsiderate, but it sends the message to others that Muslims are intolerant, even of eachother.
Brother, your explosive reply doesnt help your cause at all
Can you please explain and clarify HOW this action results in SAWAB.
Sawab, I think is something (good ) that adds to your balance of good deeds in your log book, being written down each and every passing moment of your life. That is solely based on doing an act, with which ALLAH (swt) is pleased and rewards you.
With my limited knowledge, I fail to understand the relation between Zajeer Zani and SAWAB. Maybe you can add to my knowledge
Any example or quote from any Imam ?
I am just curious about the source and history of this ritual
Ok, since I'm shia, I'll take a stab at in (pun intended :) )
Matam was a way of showing anger or resentment between the Arabs at the time of the Prophet. It is strictly a cultural action, but there are reports that the family of the Imam did it after the death of Imam Hussein (AS)
Allah FORBID us to do harm ourselves, suicide isn't HARAM for no reason.
Allah says, "...make not your own hands contribute to your destruction..." (Surah al-Baqarah 2:195); "...nor kill yourselves..." (Surah al-Nisaa 4:29)
What does this ayah mean to you?
Aren't there more constructive ways of doing good deeds?
i agree with you Barfee... Muslims are to follow Prophet Mohammed (PBUH), and HIS lifestlye... not that of his family (pbuthem). Granted that we should mourn the deaths of Hussan and Hussein and all the others but why would you resort to torturing yourselves with knives and chains...?? what exactly does that prove?
For one matam, zanjeer zani, noha, azadari, this is not done to gain sawab, its performed out of love. Now everybody has different ways of expressing their feelings their love, and that is why some of you will never understand this form of expression.
Whether its permitted in islam or not thats a different issue and again that depends on the fiqh you follow. However just to explain that there is a difference between matam and hurting yourself let me quote some events from sunni books
Sheikh Abdul Haq Mohaddis Hanafi Dehlavi who is regarded as one of the greatest Scholars of the Sunni Sect, describing the events at the fatal illnes of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) in his book 'Modaarejun Nubuwwat' vol II page 544 records:-
"Bilal emerged beating his head and loudly wailing (from the room of Aisha)."
As narrated by al Tabari in History Volume 9 page 183 (English translation by Ismail Poonawalla)
*Abbas narrates: *
"I heard Aisha saying "The Messenger of God died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of God died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women".
Need I say anymore?? The point is just like yuo can't explain the theory of relativity to a kid in grade 2 similarly matam is something that an outsider can never understand untill and unless he/she is aware of some other beliefs and teachings of islams and its concepts, however people will always raise objections and there fore I have jsut listed a few incidents and events from islamic history to justify its permissibility.
The most explicit proof of self inflicted injury comes from Owais Qarni, the great Muslim Sahaba, praised by both Shia as well as Sunnis, had an immense love for the Holy Prophet (s.a.w). When the news reached him in Yemen that two teeth of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) were broken in the battle of Ohad, he extracted all his teeth. When the Holy Prophet (s.a.w) got the news in Medina that Owais had struck down all his teeth, he (s.a.w) exclaimed, "Indeed Owais is our devoted friend."
This event can be found written in 'Tazkeratul Aulia' by Sheikh Fariddun Attar, also 'Ihsanul Uyun' commonly known as 'Seerate Halbia' vol II, page 295.
the topic is misleading, because there is a distinct difference between maatam and zanjeer zani. It seems the thread starter wants to discuss the practise of zanjeer zani here.
And for how many years did rasool Allah say namaz for? Is it really rellevant?? The point is he did, and was not reprimanded by Rasool Allah which proves its allowed.
If you get into the those details, then can you please tell me for how many years and under what circumstances did Rasool allah practice ijmah and shorra?
Point is if something was allowed in Rasool Allah's time and he did not fordid it then its allwed to this day.
I have spent countless hours trying to explain to people that tolerance is what will help Islam survive in the west in harmony.