Re: Massacre of Hazaras
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Re: Massacre of Hazaras
Phoenixdesi, I respect your opinion but it is heavy on emotions something which you reckon I am basing my opinion on. If I get time then I will respond to your thoughts and also point to examples from the world to show where my thoughts are coming from.
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
Mubbashir Lucman is sitting in with protestors in Multan. He has been brave enough to say that Saudi Arab is responsible for this blood. Videos of that speech should be on the net soon. Good on Mubasshir Lucman for speaking out.
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
It’s very easy for us (especially the privileged ones in Pakistan) to lecture the hazaras and Shias to stay within the country and fight for their rights. What can they do when the media, military, judiciary (which takes suomotos on individual murders but isn’t moved by mass murders like these), military and also the mainstream civil society does not stand shoulder to shoulder with them in these testing times?
As we discuss this issue there would be hazaras out there who’d be risking everything to flee the country (on boats). The lucky ones will reach Australia or New Zealand (and end up in detention centres). The unlucky ones will drown, but how is that end different than what awaits them in Pakistan.
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
There is no word within the domain of human lexicon that could adequately describe my hate and loathing for the sobs that commit such crimes. I wish I could strangle them with my own two hands.
I dont know whos worse, the dogs attacking people or the geedar in Islamabad and GHQ content with allowing such a genocide to continue unabated. Damn all the politicians, PPP and PML, and damn the Generals, Kayani and all, and the ISI. Their hands are soaked in the blood of innocents.
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
Ever since Malik Ishaq was released by the CJ he has gone on rampage & Punjab govt is protecting killers like him. Army/ISI are looking other way federal govt isn't doing much. Given these choices its probably better for Shias and other minorities to leave the country.
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
^^^ It is said that Allah do not like unjust and Fisadis, but Allah also do not like those who tolerate injustice, tolerate Fisad, and suffer without doing something about it. It is also fact that innocent victims are always made to suffer, but when victims fight back then only their suffering ends.
Prophet (SAW) and Muslims were made by kuffaran-e-Mecca to leave Mecca, but once in Madina, Muslims did not kept quiet, rather they started attacking Meccan caravans as their right, and were prepared to fight and kill Meccans if they attack.
Shias are more than 20 percent (or around 40 million) in Pakistan, and Kharjees are probably less than 100 thousand (at most). Sects Kharjees get their fighting men, retards for their suicide squads, moral supports and financial supports, for instance Deobandis, Tableeghies and Salafis (Wahabis) combined together are most likely even less then Shias in Pakistan.
Shia know that army, police, court, government and other government functionaries are incapable (or not interested) in helping them to live peacefully.
So, Shias should mobilise themselves, train themselves, arm themselves, and fight these Kharjee cowards with arms, in their houses, public places, roads and madrasas, and especially wherever they believe Kharjees are gathered or living, killing known trouble makers without remorse (as courts are unable to punish them neither police capable to arrest them or persecute them).
I am pretty sure that if Shias would do that, many Sunnis (who are also equally victim of Kharjees) would be there to help, and this action would be great help for Pakistan in eliminating Kharjee’s fitna from country.
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
Quetta attacks
Since January 10, more than 204 people have died in attacks in the southwestern city. The majority of the victims have been from the Shia minority.
January 10: 117 killed, over 200 injured Alamdar Road
January 12: 2 killed on Brewery Road
January 15: 3 killed in Bakra Mandi
January 19: 4 killed in Khameesa Khan Bugti area
January 21: 3 killed near Saryab Road
January 23: 1 killed in fighting
January 24: 2 barbers killed
**January 25: **7 bodies found outside Quetta
February 7: 3 killed in Archar Road gunfight
February 9: 1 killed in Kachlak
February 16: At least 84 killed in Hazara Town
Pressure mounts on Pakistan over Shia attacks - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
Enough is enough! The Shias should not end their protest until the army launches an operation against the kharijites. Inaction now could push the country to a civil war rendering the army and government helpless in any case. As they say in Urdu, laaton Kay bhoot baton say nahin maantay.
Re: Operation against LEJ
Watch a Khariji LeJ lover calling a Shia tv channel and reply to him by both Shia and Sunni audience.
Sipah e Sahaba Talban Live call at Shia Tv Programe—Must Watch | Facebook
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
here is the video now.
Mubbashir Luqman’s Great Remarks at Multan Dharna (17 Feb 2013) | Facebook
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
^ good to see someone from the media has the courage to call the spade a spade. I remember watching a similar video of Pervez Hoodboy who spoke against these culprits after last Quetta killings in January.
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
Enough is enough! The Shias should not end their protest until the army launches an operation against the kharijites. Inaction now could push the country to a civil war rendering the army and government helpless in any case. As they say in Urdu, laaton Kay bhoot baton say nahin maantay.
their inaction in the face of massacre, after massacre is just sickening
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
^^^ It is said that Allah do not like unjust and Fisadis, but Allah also do not like those who tolerate injustice, tolerate Fisad, and suffer without doing something about it. It is also fact that innocent victims are always made to suffer, but when victims fight back then only their suffering ends.
Prophet (SAW) and Muslims were made by kuffaran-e-Mecca to leave Mecca, but once in Madina, Muslims did not kept quiet, rather they started attacking Meccan caravans as their right, and were prepared to fight and kill Meccans if they attack.
Shias are more than 20 percent (or around 40 million) in Pakistan, and Kharjees are probably less than 100 thousand (at most). Sects Kharjees get their fighting men, retards for their suicide squads, moral supports and financial supports, for instance Deobandis, Tableeghies and Salafis (Wahabis) combined together are most likely even less then Shias in Pakistan.
Shia know that army, police, court, government and other government functionaries are incapable (or not interested) in helping them to live peacefully.
So, Shias should mobilise themselves, train themselves, arm themselves, and fight these Kharjee cowards with arms, in their houses, public places, roads and madrasas, and especially wherever they believe Kharjees are gathered or living, killing known trouble makers without remorse (as courts are unable to punish them neither police capable to arrest them or persecute them).
I am pretty sure that if Shias would do that, many Sunnis (who are also equally victim of Kharjees) would be there to help, and this action would be great help for Pakistan in eliminating Kharjee’s fitna from country.
God !!! What are you suggesting. I hope you are being sarcastic here. This is a recipe for disaster and hope better sense prevails. I might not understand the entire context here, but to brand an entire community and seeking of revenge is surely not the right path.
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
The Hazaras are too naive.
Quetta bombing victims burial tied to military security - geo.tv
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
God !!! What are you suggesting. I hope you are being sarcastic here. This is a recipe for disaster and hope better sense prevails. I might not understand the entire context here, but to brand an entire community and seeking of revenge is surely not the right path.
Which entire community you are talking about?
Do you call people a community who creates 'fitna on earth' and 'kill' others for sake of killing or to satisfy their interpretation of Islam?
Kharjees are those who not only differ in interpretation of Islam, but brand other Muslims as 'Kafir' and then kill them, and justify killing them according to Islam they believe. This is not Islam neither it can be tolerated under any law. Islam call such behaviour as 'Fitna and fisad' on earth, for which penalty is death (from Quran)'.
You should know that Kharjees are not Islamic sect, rather it is group of people who love terrorising, harassing, and killing innocent people and creating fitna on earth (all unjustified killing of helpless people, harassing peaceful citizen, and creating terror amongst masses is 'fitna and fisad').
Actually, if one look into Quran, death penalty is only for people (or group of people) who create 'Fitna ad Fisad' ... else, there is no death penalty for any crime or sin (bar murder that can get death penalty under law of Qisas).
Islam is peaceful religion, but it also do not like people who take beating without retaliating or fighting against it (if they can). Actually, law of 'Qisas' is based on equal retaliation when it comes to individuals, but when it comes to communities getting victimised then community should retaliate against those victimising them.
In Islam, jihad is only allowed not as aggression but against aggression and against victimisation.
Kharjees in Pakistan are killing Shias like animals and are also killing Sunnis. Pakistan government is incapable of giving Shia protection from these army of devil, and that is obvious.
So, what Shias should do? lie down and get killed like animals or some individuals run to another country to safe his personal life (until time Kharjees reaches there to kill him too)? At the same time just try to look for sympathy from people around them and world? That is neither Islam nor human nature Allah gave to humans.
If Shias would do that, take all the killings quietly without fighting back (retaliating with force), especially under circumstances that is prevailing in Pakistan where Shias are not even getting any meaningful protection from government or court, then they certainly deserve what they are getting, and one would not be wrong to think that Shias like to get treated the way they are getting treated by Kharjees and government. It is only if they would fight back and take the killing into the houses and safe-places of killers, then only they deserve help.
Just imagine, Malik Ishaq claims openly that he killed many Shias and would keep doing so, still move around in Pakistan proudly and fearlessly untouched under the protection of Punjab government (he is not scared because his victims are sitting ducks who could not or would not harm him). Court nor police could do anything about it (actually, court did not dared to convict him even though he openly claims and never denies that he kill Shias).
Well, Malik Ishaq is also getting money from Punjab government for what he is doing. And Shias looking towards same government to help them and do nothing themselves? Is it farce or not?
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
^^^ It is said that Allah do not like unjust and Fisadis, but Allah also do not like those who tolerate injustice, tolerate Fisad, and suffer without doing something about it. It is also fact that innocent victims are always made to suffer, but when victims fight back then only their suffering ends.
Prophet (SAW) and Muslims were made by kuffaran-e-Mecca to leave Mecca, but once in Madina, Muslims did not kept quiet, rather they started attacking Meccan caravans as their right, and were prepared to fight and kill Meccans if they attack.
Shias are more than 20 percent (or around 40 million) in Pakistan, and Kharjees are probably less than 100 thousand (at most). Sects Kharjees get their fighting men, retards for their suicide squads, moral supports and financial supports, for instance Deobandis, Tableeghies and Salafis (Wahabis) combined together are most likely even less then Shias in Pakistan.
Shia know that army, police, court, government and other government functionaries are incapable (or not interested) in helping them to live peacefully.
So, Shias should mobilise themselves, train themselves, arm themselves, and fight these Kharjee cowards with arms, in their houses, public places, roads and madrasas, and especially wherever they believe Kharjees are gathered or living, killing known trouble makers without remorse (as courts are unable to punish them neither police capable to arrest them or persecute them).
I am pretty sure that if Shias would do that, many Sunnis (who are also equally victim of Kharjees) would be there to help, and this action would be great help for Pakistan in eliminating Kharjee’s fitna from country.
Saleem wait a minute plz.Let me come to terms. First tell me honestly about the term Kharjee U are using. Are they same of Siffin and Naharwan fame? Do Kharjees really exist now or its just a sarcasm?
I agree with major part of ur post. But I feel that in-spite of retaliating and taking laws in their own hands shias should take up this cause in a more potent way, ie raising their voice more loudly until it reaches the deaf ears of government and army. Its not that hard it looks like.
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
Did iranian export of the revolution won shiite militants anything before that they should go this route? It only led to more strife as those militants also killed barelvis, so the latter had to resort to putting guards and cutting their namaz short in case of firing and attacking shiites. Pakistan is not Iraq if that is what you are alluding towards here.
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
^please, no trolling if you know very little to nothing about the subject.
Re: Massacre of Hazaras
Saleem wait a minute plz.Let me come to terms. First tell me honestly about the term Kharjee U are using. Are they same of Siffin and Naharwan fame? Do Kharjees really exist now or its just a sarcasm?
I agree with major part of ur post. But I feel that in-spite of retaliating and taking laws in their own hands shias should take up this cause in a more potent way, ie raising their voice more loudly until it reaches the deaf ears of government and army. Its not that hard it looks like.
Seems you do not know what Kharjee means and why they were labelled as Kharjees by Ali (RA)? … and reason what you mentioned would not work.
Kharjees were a group of people who from outside were staunch Muslims (as far as Aamaal was concerned) but their interpretation of Quran was different.
Anyhow, their interpretation of Quran was not a problem. Problem was that, using their interpretation of Quran, they also started doing ‘takfeer’, that is, declaring Muslims not agreeing with their interpretation of Quran as ‘Kafir’ and also declared both Ali (RA) and Amir Muawiya as apostate (Kafir) who should be killed. It is their this trait that made them Kharjees (or people who left fold of Islam)
Initially, Ali (RA) tried to talk with them and many left their Kharjee group, still a number stayed adamant considering Muslims not agreeing with their interpretation of Quran as Kafir, and in the end battle of Naharwan happened where most of them got killed. Though that was not the end of Kharjees, as over the years, many group of Muslims started adopting same trait as Kharjees, doing ‘takfeer’ and killing Muslims.
In Pakistan we have many such groups who are Kharjees. Difference is that, disagreement is not just on interpretation of Quran, but on Shariah laws and Islam. If people disagree with their interpretation of ‘Quran and Islam’ then these Kharjees would declare them Kafir and would try to kill them.
Unfortunately, most who are Kharjees come from Deobandi and Wahabi sect, but that does not mean these people are Deobandi or Wahabi, as even if Deobandi and Wahabi would disagree with their interpretation of Quran and Islam, they would not hesitate to kill them.
Government could not do much as government themselves are scared of these people, especially political government whose purpose is just to loot and plunder. Army is already fighting Kharjees in the name of 'war on terror', but unfortunately army is also infected by people of this group, and thus it is very difficult for army to fight them effectively.
Suggestion that religious scholars (Ulemas) of all sects should do something about it, then that would not work with hard-line kharjees. Only thing is that, if Deobandi and Wahabi Ulema would declare Kharjee’s act as outside Islam (like doing suicide bombing, killing Shias and Sunnis, attacking Sunni mosques, Shia Imam-bargah, Mazars, Milad-ul-Nabi gatherings, etc) then effect would be that, Kharjees would find difficulty in recruiting new men in their Kharjee fold. On the other hand, Kharjees would start killing these Deobandi and Wahabi Ulemas too (that they have already done ... killed Ulemas if they find any Ulema of Deobandi or Wahabi sect disagreeing with them).