Poor Guy.
Agree it is America’s right to monitor our borders, especially in the wake of the 9/11 attacks.
I do think that America would make a better impression if the registration rules applied to nationals of all countries, rather than the selective countries. I do feel the selective gives off an impression of bigotry and intolerance to people of Middle-East descent.
Likely this enforcement of an old law is quite costly to the government, and the cost was likely considered along with the fact that the terror act of 9/11 was instigated by Middle-Eastern Nationals.
So unfortunately Middle-Eastern Nationals are the ones bearing the brunt of the INS crackdown.
Nationals of Countries added to the present registration requirement added Dec. 18th, 2002 are Pakistan and Saudia Arabia.
(Call group 3)
If you are in this category you must register at a designated INS Office between January 13, 2003 and February 21, 2003.
Go to the official INS website which has the official government criteria and proceedures if this affects you:
http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/lawenfor/specialreg/index.htm#callgroup3who
I see say so then
Land for the Restricted 
Still no one answered my point on mexico land being stolen i.e south west including texas and california
They treat mexicans and latinos with contempt like they are a vermin but the mexcians have every right to be there and take what is rightfully theres 
Hey atleast those illegal people locked up are not in that bad condition as they would be if they were locked up some country like pakistan where u get to shave ur face once a month behind the cells. Get proper nutritional food here, unlike other places.
I am pretty sure they will serve some couple months and then shipped back where they came from or watever.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kareem: *
They are illegal immigrants, so what's the big deal? Which country do you know of that welcomes illegals with open arms?
[/QUOTE]
Austria does, Germany did and now has stopped the most racist countries on this earth perhaps for the Americans. Can you imagine the birth place of HITLER accepting illegal immigrants. I bet you can't! And yes they are still doing it.
I don't think accepting them is a wrong thing when kept in limits.
Never heard of an America not immigrating once! At least not those who are in majority now!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Furqan: *
Hey atleast those illegal people locked up are not in that bad condition as they would be if they were locked up some country like pakistan where u get to shave ur face once a month behind the cells. Get proper nutritional food here, unlike other places.
I am pretty sure they will serve some couple months and then shipped back where they came from or watever.
[/QUOTE]
Furqan I guess you haven't heard about the most heavily criticized jail situations in US. Have you?!
Unfortunately you don't see that on CNN and Co otherwise you would have been familiar this.
Hey??
Targeting people of designated countries and ethnicities in my own opinion..
Is Racist.
And morally wrong. Reprehensible.
Who the hell do these guys (who decided on this) think they are? Almighty God?
Makes me sick.
:k: well said and true
***Only in the Land of Freedom, you can fight back!
Lawsuit filed by American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, the Alliance of Iranian Americans, the Council on American-Islamic Relations and the National Council of Pakistani Americans.***
Civil Liberties Groups Sue Over Calif. Arrests
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The U.S. Attorney General and the nation’s immigration service were hit by a class action civil liberties lawsuit on Tuesday over the mass detentions of immigrants from Muslim countries who came forward to register under new anti-terrorism rules.
A coalition of Arab and Muslim groups sought an immediate injunction against further arrests and alleged that large numbers of men who came forward to register in southern California last week had been unlawfully detained. The lawsuit, filed in federal court in Los Angeles, followed outrage over the detentions of hundreds of immigrants – most of them Iranians – who presented themselves at immigration offices under the anti-terrorism program and who were taken away in handcuffs and locked up, sometimes for days, for overstaying their visas.
The Department of Justice did not return calls seeking comment on the lawsuit which named Attorney General John Ashcroft and the Immigration and Naturalization Service as defendants.
Local immigration lawyers estimated last week that about 1,000 men and boys were detained in standing room only centers, and forced to sleep on concrete floors, under a system designed to track potential “terrorists” but which instead locked up many caught in the lengthy process for obtaining permanent residence.
Official figures from the Department of Justice and the INS put the number of detentions in California at less than 250. By Tuesday, officials said that about 20 were still detained in the Los Angeles area, five in San Diego and a handful in San Francisco.
PROGRAM CALLED ‘IRRATIONAL’
The men were detained under a post-Sept. 11 program which requires males over 16, without permanent residence, from 20 Arab or Muslim countries to register with authorities.
Peter Schey, president of the Los Angeles-based Center for Human Rights and Constitutional Law and the lead attorney for the six, unnamed plaintiffs in the lawsuit, said mass registration was irrational because “no undocumented terrorist will come forward.”
Schey said the lawsuit was not about resisting registration but about the way it was being implemented.
“The program is being used as a scam to lure people into INS offices supposedly to register, when what they really face is arrest, detention and even deportation despite their pending petitions to legalize their status which the INS refuses to process,” he said.
The registration deadline for the first group, which included Iranians from the 600,000-strong Iranian exile community in the Los Angeles area, fell on Dec. 16. Deadlines are approaching in January and February for citizens of Afghanistan, Algeria, Yemen, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
The lawsuit asked for an injunction ordering the government not to arrest any other people without a warrant and to prevent the deportation or holding without bail of detainees with avenues available to legalize their status.
It said the detentions of otherwise law-abiding immigrants **“seriously undermines prospects for future compliance and constitutes an absurd waste of resources.” **
CONFIDENCE IN INS ERODED
“The mass arrests have further eroded confidence in the fairness of the INS and the immigration system among Arab and Muslim communities,” said the lawsuit. It was filed by the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, the Alliance of Iranian Americans, the Council on American-Islamic Relations and the National Council of Pakistani Americans.
Local media have highlighted cases of professionals, like San Francisco-area engineer Ramsin Ziazadeh, who works at National Semiconductor and Faramarz Farahani, a database manager at a Silicon Valley company. Both men were born in Iran and were detained for failing to report to the INS on time.
“We got word he might be released soon, but I can’t believe he went through this incredible four-day ordeal,” Farahani’s wife Judy Shum told the San Francisco Chronicle.
“One day he’s an (information technology) professional with a briefcase, the next he’s in shackles at the INS office.”
Khurrum Wahid of the Council on American Islamic Relations said the groups bringing the lawsuit wanted to prevent such situations happening again.
“We feel the INS really didn’t take into account the situation of the people they were detaining and the disruption to their lives, and they were not prepared to execute the procedure that they themselves had set up,” Wahid told Reuters
People who do not follow the law are criminals. They should be treated as such.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ex-Army: *
People who do not follow the law are criminals. They should be treated as such.
[/QUOTE]
Thats an over-simpliefied and very general statement.
Let me put a scenario for you, lets say you were driving at 50 mph in a 45 mph zone, woould you expect the cop to jump the gun and arrest you and treat you like a criminal? Afterall you broke the law here.
5abi - good one. Gosh I hope from the bottom of my heart that each of you who didn't stop at the red stop sign gets a ticket. After all, you broke the law. :)
And remember, only cross at zebra-crossings. And don't double park. And place trash in the trash containers not chuck it out the car window. And don't drink and rive. And don't do drugs. And don't hire illegal immgrants to clean your homes, do your dry cleaning, make your egg foo young, wait your table, dig your pool, build your patio, etc.. This is not just the Land of the Free Citizen, but also the Land of the Do-It-Yourself-or-Go-Without-it Citizen, no? :)
Another article from Boston Herald about Suitfiled against INS.
Civil Rights Groups Sue to Bar More Arrests of Middle Eastern Men
LOS ANGELES - Groups representing Muslims and Arab-Americans, Iranian-Americans and Pakistani-Americans have sued the government seeking an injunction to bar future arrests under rules adopted in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks.
The suit, which seeks class-action status, also asked a federal court to prevent the detention without bond or deportation of detainees who ``have avenues available to legalize their status.‘’
At least 400 men were arrested in Southern California for visa violations when immigrants from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Sudan and Syria went to Immigration and Naturalization Service offices last week to register as required under the new policy. Many claimed the violations were due to slow paperwork processing by the INS.
Most of those arrested were in Southern California, where all but 23 had been released by last week. However, many of those released still face immigration hearings and some could face deportation.
The arrests prompted outrage and protests, especially by Iranian-Americans who charged that many of those held were in the process of becoming legal residents and were arrested without warrants or access to legal help.
``They’re doing everything that the government wants them to do… and they’re being detained. There’s no due process,‘’ said Jason Erb of the Washington, D.C.-based Council on American-Islamic Relations, one of the groups that filed the suit Tuesday.
We're not challenging the right of the government to keep track of people who visit the country. We're critical of the way it's being done,''** he said. **We’re critical of mass arrests of people who are trying to follow all the rules.‘’
The U.S. Justice Department, which oversees the INS, declined to comment on the lawsuit, but spokesman Jorge Martinez defended the registration requirement.
He said most of the detentions occurred in Southern California, which has a large Iranian-American population, because many people waited until the day of the deadline to register and they had to be detained for background checks.
Although national figures from the 53 INS offices throughout the country had not been tallied yet, Martinez said there were only ``a handful’’ of detentions outside of Southern California.
In the next phase of the program, about 7,200 male visa holders from 13 countries, including Afghanistan, Algeria, Lebanon and North Korea, will be required to register by Jan. 10. Males from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan must register by Feb. 21.
American Civil Liberties Union(ACLU) Fires on! Calls for Immediate Release of Detainees!
ACLU Calls Immigrant Registration Program Pretext for Mass Detentions
WASHINGTON – In a development that confirms the American Civil Liberties Union’s initial fears about a controversial immigrant fingerprinting and registration program, the Immigration and Naturalization Service is apparently using the program as a pretext for the mass detention of hundreds of Middle Eastern and Muslim men and boys.
“Given the evidence, there is no alarmism in saying this is a round-up,” said Lucas Guttentag, Director of the ACLU’s Immigrants’ Rights Project. “Attorney General Ashcroft is using the immigrant registration program to lock up people who already have provided extensive information as part of their green card applications,” he said. “Therefore the purpose is clearly not to get information but rather to selectively arrest, detain and deport Middle Eastern and Muslim men in the United States.”
According to media reports covering growing protests against the detentions, up to 700 Middle Eastern and Muslim men and boys were arrested in Southern California by federal immigration authorities after they voluntarily complied with a new program that mandates the fingerprinting and registration of all male visitors 16 years and older from certain Middle Eastern countries. It remains unclear how many others have been detained across the country, but reportedly a full one-quarter of all those who complied with the program were arrested in Los Angeles.
The men detained are all from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya and the Sudan, the five countries whose visitors to the United States were required to register with the INS by December 16.
In most cases, it is apparent that the INS arrested men who were simply waiting for approval of their green card applications, or those with minor visa problems caused by incompetence in the agency itself, which has been plagued by an inept bureaucracy for years. In but one example, the San Diego Union Tribune reported on July 27, 2002 that the agency recently failed to process more than 200,000 change of address forms and then unceremoniously dumped them in the largest underground records facility in the world – an abandoned mine near Kansas City – putting hundreds of thousands at risk of wrongful arrest and deportation for failing to report a change of address.
The ACLU also questioned the effectiveness of the program, given the enormous outlay of resources necessary to engage in detentions on this scale.
“The INS is wasting an incredible amount of government resources in rounding up these men and boys,” said Dalia Hashad, the ACLU’s Arab, Muslim and South Asian Advocate. “It seems unlikely that a hardened terrorist is going to voluntarily register with the government,” she added. **“What is more likely is that law-abiding people who were planning to register will now be afraid to come in because of the arrests, and the INS will use that as an excuse to deport them.” **
By January 10, 2003, citizens of 13 additional countries – Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Eritrea, Lebanon, Morocco, North Korea, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen – must also submit to registration, a move that could push the detentions into the tens of thousands, the ACLU said.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by 5Abi: *
Thats an over-simpliefied and very general statement.
Let me put a scenario for you, lets say you were driving at 50 mph in a 45 mph zone, woould you expect the cop to jump the gun and arrest you and treat you like a criminal? Afterall you broke the law here.
[/QUOTE]
Einstien. If you break the law how should you expect to be treated? And being a guest in a country does not give you the right to pick and chose the laws that you feel are right or wrong. Break the law and yes if it means going to jail then that is what I expect to happen.
This is a sad read. 
America is not about Human Rights Violations.
Families Protest Detention of Hundreds of Men Under Registration Program
L O S A N G E L E S, Dec. 19 — Hundreds of Muslim men and boys are being subjected to strip searches in freezing, standing room only detention centers in Southern California after being arrested for routine visa irregularities, :nook: immigration lawyers said today.
They estimated that between 1,000 and 2,500 males, some as young as 16, were spending their fourth day locked up in what they called inhumane conditions after voluntarily presenting themselves at immigration offices to register under new anti-terrorism rules.
“The situation in the detention centers is absolutely horrifying. In one center, they were ordered to strip down and given a strip search. They were only given a prison jumpsuit, without any underwear, T-shirts, socks or shoes. They were not given blankets. They are freezing,” Iranian-American lawyer Sohelia Jonoubi told Reuters.
Justice Department officials in Washington, breaking an almost week-long silence on the arrests, said 227 people had been detained in California for overstaying their visas under a post-Sept. 11 program that requires men over 16, without permanent residence status, from 20 Arab or Muslim countries to register with authorities.
- Lured Into a Trap?
But the official figures differed widely from anecdotal evidence from families in the Los Angeles area who reported that scores of husbands, brothers and fathers had spent most of this week locked up and treated like criminals.
“These people are being held in inhumane conditions. … We don’t know how many. We have estimated anywhere between 1,000 to 2,500 detained in Southern California. The INS in Los Angeles is overworked, overwhelmed and doing everything they can [but] these people were not prepared to handle it,” Iranian-American Lawyers Association spokesman Kayhan Shakib said.
Most of those detained were Iranians living in Los Angeles County and neighboring Orange County, which in the past 20 years have become home to some 600,000 Iranian exiles.
Lawyers battling to get the men released on bail said many were law-abiding immigrants who were in the process of getting U.S. green cards under a lengthy and complex INS procedure.
“These people came to the INS centers voluntarily. They are not flight risks. They were led to believe it was routine registration and now this is the biggest trap I have ever seen,” Jonoubi said.
- Thousands Protest
Some 3,000 people staged a peaceful protest in Los Angeles on Wednesday as hundreds more waited for hours to get their relatives released on bail from overwhelmed INS officials. Some protesters carried banners reading: “What’s next? Concentration camps?”
Community lawyers have been refused access to the detainees who they say are being shuttled round various detention centers in prison buses, shackled and in handcuffs, as the system creaks under the strain.
Families, allowed telephone access to their relatives, reported that the men were forced to sleep standing up, or on concrete floors with no blankets, and some had been hosed down with cold water. Drinking water is said to be scarce and in some cases, detainees must use toilets without doors or walls.
The relatives said that some detainees have been told they will be deported without seeing their relatives again. Others are trying to get out on bail pending a hearing before an immigration judge which could take days or weeks.
- Memories of World War II
INS spokesman Francisco Arcaute said he was confident the INS could deal with the situation, adding; “They have access to telephones, they have access to restrooms, they are given snacks. We understand there has been a bit of crowding, but my understanding is that we are meeting basic needs.”
The Southern California chapter of the ACLU said the detentions were “reminiscent of what happened in the past with Japanese-Americans” during World War II.
Shakib told Reuters that after talks with the INS, officials had promised to try to process the detainees more speedily and get more of them out on bail.
He said only 20 or 30 had been bailed out as of Wednesday. The Justice Department insisted about 100 people were still being held.
Activists said they expected more demonstrations in coming days. “The Iranian community is not going to sit and not respond to this outrage,” said Jonoubi, a Los Angeles resident for 15 years and now a U.S. citizen.
**“I cannot believe that I lived to see the day that such human rights violations occur in the United States of America in the 21st century.” **
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ex-Army: *
People who do not follow the law are criminals. They should be treated as such.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah right you mean Bush and his backhanders from Enron
And dick Cheney with his dirty involements With haliburton
Looks like you have nice set of laws for criminals its called one law for the rich and one for the Poor!
Breaking the law is one thing, and being arrested for the crimes one hasnt committed and being treated in an inhumane fashion at the local county jails are different things. A great majority of the people arrested had legal status to stay and work in US and to even travel abroad and come back. Under any other circumstances their applications for permamnent residency would have been approved, but they seem have fell in some kinda trap. Most had expired visas ofcourse, but their stay in US was approved by INS who were also fully aware of their current whereabouts as they already had applications pending with INS. Most of the arrests happened in the last week of this registration process. Some attorneys are speculating that some kinda of directorate was issued from above to round them up and INS investigation team was put in charge.
Attorney, Ban Al-Wardi, with the LA chapter of the Arab American Anti-Discrimination Committee, who is represting about 30 such detainees had this to say about this.
**[INS Detention of Arabs (FLASHPOINTS Interview of Attorney)](http://dc.indymedia.org/video/metagen.php url=http://la.indymedia.org/uploads/flashpoints_ins_arrests_12-19 02.mp3) **
NOTE: This a streaming mp3 audio.
Its from this page.. This mp3 can also be downloaded from that page (for those that are not on broadband).