Re: Martyrs
regardless of who you think has it or the extent of his knowledge, associating with shirk or completely discounting the ability of men to have ilm e ghaib with the will of Allah just doesnt fly, given the above references.
Re: Martyrs
Quran 31:34
*No soul knoweth what it will earn tomorrow, and no soul knoweth in what land it will die. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware. *
and here i am, saying that not only does one know where he is going to die but also knows where someone else is also going to die....
Re: Martyrs
how does that verse explain the references I gave above? ayat ul Kursi explicitly says that nobody has knowledge of what Allah knows except what Allah allows, and the sahih hadees specifically shows the prophet having knowledge of future deaths. unless you're denying sahih hadees, demeaning the whole idea of sahihness, I dont know what the implication is. you avoided that whole deal by posting another verse.
now, I'd like to make more of a point than saying that you're inconsistent. in the above verse, the addressed are 'the people'. certain verses refer to the people and address the people in general. this does not mean that there arent exceptions:
[quote]
If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, three, or four, but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one…(Surah al-Nisa, 3).
[/quote]
based on this verse 4 wives were allowed for Muslims in general. how about the Prophet?
the view consistent with all ayaat/hadees is that no soul may learn ilm ul ghaib on his own, but Allah can impart that ilm to whomever He pleases.
Re: Martyrs
^
r u saying that Ali (ra) received wahee like Muhammad (saw) did????
if yes, then i dont want to argue cuz u r way off track....
if no, then how come Ali (ra) wud be given this information....
Re: Martyrs
Im not party to that debate. I'm not arguing about who recieved what. I'm saying that given that Allah has said that He gives knowledge of the unknown to whomever He wishes, and that there is precedent for it in our Prophet, and according to some sunnis Hazrat Khizr, there is absolutely no basis for claiming that attribution of this knowledge to anyone is shirk, given that Allah does not specify who recieves this knowledge and who doesnt.
you may disagree as to whether the person recieved that knowledge BUT you cannot claim that its shirk.
Re: Martyrs
There was a sahabi of Hz. Suleman (as), Asif Bin Berkhia, who possessed a very little knowledge of "The Book" ......
PONDER!
Re: Martyrs
[72:26] "He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries,
[72:27] "Only to a messenger that He chooses, does He reveal from the past and the future, specific news."
Al-Qur'an
So, even if Ali (R.A) knew something, he was not capable of knowing any event of past or future according to his will. Unless or untill Allah the almighty wanted him to know specific news on purpose.
If Ali (R.A) knew the past and future then what is Allah for?
Re: Martyrs
Allah (swt) was there to give him(as) some of his (swt) knoweldge. That doesnt mean he had all knowldge, but a lot more than the average person. similiar for all masumeens.
Re: Martyrs
Do you mean, Allah provided specific information to Ali(R.A) whenever Ali wanted? If your answer is yes, then I doubt your answer is trying to falsify the Aayaat I mentioned earlier.
Another thing, what was the way of communication? 
Re: Martyrs
I think this is how it works (from what I've read about Shia'ism).
All the Imams (as the shias say), have access to divine knowledge through Prophet Muhhamed (pbuh). So, the shias could argue that, that knowledge about the future was told by Allah to the Prophet (pbuh) (72:27 would coinfirm that), and then due to the nature of the Imamat, it got passed to H. Ali (ra), and then on ....
The more I read about Shia'ism, the more I'm convinced that Shia'ism, now is not what it was at the time of H. ALI (ra). It seems to be an evolution that took its final form around 300AH after the 4 deputies of the 12th Imam, died. At the time of H. Ali (ra), they were the partisans of Ali, and could be seen as a political group. Some how, it got morphed into a religious group later on. Even so, the first few hundred years after the Prophet (pbuh), sunnis and shias weren't that different. I mean, sunni schools of thought were influenced by the 6th Imam, jafar as sadiq, how different could they have been. Over time, they've evolved into something what we see today...
Re: Martyrs
This doesnt make any sense.
[72:27] “Only to a messenger that He (ALLAH) chooses, does He reveal from the past and the future, specific news.”
Al-Qur’an
Nowhere in the Holy Qur’an it is mentioned that such kind of transmission of the knowledge is possible. Why is not Nabuwwat passed to Ali (R.A)?
When Allah wants, He chooses the messenger and reveals the knowledge Himself. There are no passing games.
Re: Martyrs
wasn’t Maryam informed of specific news of the future from Allah through wahi and Jibreel? and nobody here is saying that the knowledge came from his own will.
we believe that the prophet was the shehr-e-ilm and ali the darwaza. Any knowledge and status that came to Ali was through his qurbat to the Prophet IMO.
Re: Martyrs
Imamat is divinely appointed through the Quran and Prophet (saw). The ilm ghaib arent revelations as such and depending on the kind of knowledge, is innate or passed down from the Propet (saw).
Re: Martyrs
hmm, care to share with us, what is your source of getting information on Shia’ism??
hope your are not getting it from some anti shia/nasibi site
although what I am going to post is not what the tiltel of the thread says but thanx to armughal who is very “mahir” in turning any post posted by Shai members of the forum into inter sectarian discusion thread. (see his post history in religion forum). Hope i would not be labled Mushrik by him what I wrote above
Ihtesham](http://www.gupistan.com/gs/member.php?u=25839), nomaan thx for your input, following is an article taken from “A Shi’it Encyclopedia”:
The Knowledge of the Unseen & the Knowledge of the Book
This article aims at clarifying two concepts namely “Ilm al-Ghayb” (the Knowledge of the Unseen) and “Ilm al-Kitab” (the knowledge of the Book) which both seem to be confusing in many people’s mind. The article provides references to Quran and both Shi’ite and Sunnite collections of traditions.
The Knowledge of the Unseen
The original meaning of “Ghayb” in Arabic is “that which has been concealed”, and it is with this meaning which has appeared in the Holy Quran (4:34, 12:52, etc.) It signifies a meaning opposite to “Hadhir” which means “present to the senses”, and thus denotes with things to the external world (i.e., Ma’lumat; known things). This opposition of Ghayb/Hadhir (unseen/present) should not be confused with the opposition of Ilm/Jahl (knowledge/ignorance) in which the latter pair is concerned with the internal act of knowing. So it may happen that something is “Ghayb” in the dimension of time which does not exist now but it will be or it was; or in the dimension of place that is the knowledge of something which is located elsewhere but not here.
Thus we can divide own our knowledge into two parts:A) The knowledge of something which is present to us right here and right now (Ilm bil Hadhir),
B) The knowledge of something which we know but is not here now (Ilm bil Ghayb/Gha’ib; the knowledge of what is concealed from the senses).
It should be noted however that the above division is according to general/original linguistic meaning of the term. The knowledge of Ghayb itself can be divided in two kinds: 1) The knowledge that comes to us through our senses, but indirectly. Examples are our knowledge of history which comes either through narration from one person to another, by speech or in writing or through examining the relics and remainings of the past, and then deducing certain historical facts from them. 2) The type of the knowledge of Ghayb which does not come through our senses.
It should be observed that the first type can be by means of ordinary senses (the five normal senses) or may be by a special sense which has been given to a person like telepathic sense (if there is such a thing). It is, however, only to the second type (the non-sensory one), that the technical/special meaning of “The Knowledge of Ghayb/Gha’ib” is denoted. The historical events mentioned in Quran has been named by Quran as “the tidings/news of Ghayb” (11:49, 12:102, 25:4-6) which are all the second kind which did not come via senses.
The Holy Quran is quite specific about the fact that Allah alone has the knowledge of Ghayb (what is concealed) in the heavens and the earth. Quran tells us that there are keys to the Ghayb which are with Allah:“With Him are the Keys of the Ghayb; non knows them but He.”(Quran 6:59)
and that no one knows anything of Allah’s knowledge except if He will. Quran tells about the knowledge and the intercession of the Prophet Muhammad and his twelve successors that:“Who can intercede with Him except the cases He permits? He knows what is in front of them (the Prophet and the Imams) and what is behind them, and they encompass nothing of His knowledge except what He will.” (Quran 2:255)
This shows that the core/keys of the Knowledge of Ghayb is with Allah, but He may release “a news of Ghayb” to the one He wills.
According to the Quran, things which are special property of Allah, such as creation, giving life, curing without medicine, the knowledge of what has happened and what will happen, may either be momentarily given by Him at the moment they are required, or else the power and ability to do them may be given so that they can be used when necessary, by the permission of Allah. An example of the latter comes in the story of Prophet Jesus (AS) who, according to Quran, said:"I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; I will CREATE for you out of clay a figure of a bird, then I will breath into it, and it will be a bird by leave of Allah; I will also HEAL the blind and the leper, and BRING TO LIFE the dead, by leave of Allah. I will also INFORM you of what things you eat and what you treasure up in your houses. Surely, in that is a sign for you, if you are believers." (Quran 3:49; see also 5:110)
(what you say armughal, was Prophet Jesus (AS) a mushrik too 
** )**
To give a simple example, consider a person who looks at a monitor which displays some part of a database located in the hard drive of a computer. The user can retrieve any part of this database and see it on the monitor. But the whole database is always in the computer and not in the user’s head. Furthermore, the user is unaware of any real-time modifications that may happen to this data base and the formulas behind the modifications.
Allah let the Prophet and Imams know whatever they needed to know. However, they don’t have the whole knowledge within themselves. But Allah would give them whatever they needed any time. It is important to understand that what the prophets or the Imams wish to know is exactly what Allah wished to release to them. They do not wish to know anything that Allah do not want to release to them (among which is the keys to the knowledge of unseen).
Based on Quran and the transmitted traditions by Ahlul-Bayt, Allah has two types of knowledge:
1- The knowledge that is withheld (i.e., Ghayb). As I mentioned Nobody has control over this type of knowledge except Allah. Allah may inform “a news from Ghayb” to some of His servants, but this is different than “possessing Ghayb”. In fact, there is a whole chapter in Usul al-Kafi which discusses this type of knowledge where it is clearly mentioned that neither the Imams nor the prophets possess the knowledge Ghayb. “The Will (Mashiyyah) of Allah operates on this knowledge. If He wishes He decrees it. And If He wishes He modifies it and does not carry it out.” (See Usul al-Kafi, Kitab al-Hujjah, Tradition #664)
2- The knowledge that is granted. “This is the knowledge that Allah fore- ordained (Qadar, Taqdeer), He decrees it, and carries it out (with no modification). And this is the knowledge that has been passed down to the Prophet Muhammad, and then to the Imams.” (See Usul al-Kafi, Kitab al-Hujjah, Tradition #664)
If the Prophet or Imams possessed any knowledge about the future, it is this second type of knowledge (the knowledge of what has been foreordained), and NOT the first type of knowledge (the Knowledge of the Unseen).
For the First type of knowledge, Quran states:“Allah removes what He wills, and confirms what He wills, and with Him is the Essence of the Book.” (Quran 13:39).
The Essence of the Book is the withheld knowledge (Ghayb) which is only possessed by Allah, and nobody possesses this database but Him. Also see the following verses:He said: “The knowledge of that is with my Lord in a Record. My Lord neither errs nor forgets.” (Quran 20:52)
Now, let us look at the following verse:“He possesses the Ghayb and He does not discloses His Ghayb to anyone except to such a Messenger as He is well-pleased with.” (Quran 72:26-27).
From the above verse, it is evident that although Allah alone possesses the withheld knowledge (Ghayb), but He may disclose a news from it to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HF). On the other hand, Prophet Muhammad transferred whatever he was reached from the news of “Ghayb” to those who qualified, as the following verse testifies:****“And he (Muhammad) is not niggardly the Knowledge of the Unseen.”(Quran 81:24). Therefore, if the news of Ghayb reached to the Prophet Muhammad (and consequently the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt), it is only because it was given to him by Allah. It is for this reason that according to Quran the messengers are all instructed to tell people that they do not possess the Knowledge of Ghayb of their own, for it is reached to them by Allah only as He wishes.
In Usul a-Kafi, it is narrated that:Ammar al-Sabati said: I asked Abu Abdillah (Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq) concerning if Imam knows al-Ghayb (Unseen). He replied: “No, but when he wishes to know something, Allah causes him to know that.” (Usul al-Kafi, Kitab al- Hujjah, Tradition #666)
Shaikh al-Mufeed (d. 413/1022) who was one the outstanding Shia scholars said:" … Saying that they (Prophet and Imams) possess the knowledge of Ghayb should be refuted as being something clearly incorrect, because the attribute of this can only be for someone who possesses the knowledge of (all) things within himself, not the knowledge obtained from another. And this can only be for Allah, to whom belong Might and Majesty. All Imamis agree on this except those who deviated from them and are called Mufawwidah and extremists (al-Ghulat)." (Awa’il al- Maqalaat, p38). in fact, neither the prophets nor Imams ever claimed that they have all the knowledge within themselves. Obviously they did not know those of information which was “hidden” to them. However, this does not mean that whatever they knew is “visible” to us as well. The information which is considered to be “hidden” to us may be “visible” to them. Thus the visibility of knowledge is relative to the person.
The Knowledge of the Book
Quran mentions the second type of knowledge, explained above, which has been released to the prophets and the Imams. This is the knowledge of what has been foreordained and the knowledge of the rules governing the universe. This type of knowledge is known as “the knowledge of the Book”. Quran testifies that some prophets and non-prophets had this type of knowledge by which they could perform many extraordinary things with the permission of Allah. We read in Quran that:So We did show Abraham the power and the laws of the heavens and the earth that he might (with understanding) have certitude. (Quran 6:75)
Also earlier, we quoted a verse of Quran related to Prophet Jesus who said: “I will also INFORM you of what things you eat and what you treasure up in your houses.” (Quran 3:49; see also 5:110). References can also be made in this respect to the power of the interpretation of the tales given to Prophet Joseph (AS) (see Quran 12:6,15,21,37), to the language of the birds given to Prophet David (AS) and Solomon (Sulayman) (AS) (see Quran 21:79). We also read:We gave knowledge to David and Solomon, and they both said: “Praise be to Allah Who has favored us above many of His servants who believe!” And Solomon was David’s heir. He said: "O People! we have been taught the speech of Birds and we have been given (some knowledge) from all things. This is indeed manifest favor." (Quran 27:15-16)
Having “the Knowledge of the Book”, one can do many extraordinary things with the permission of Allah. For example Quran mentions that at the time of Prophet Solomon (Sulayman), a person in the name of Asaf, who was the Minister of Solomon and had only a very small part of “the Knowledge of the Book”, **was able to bring the throne of Queen Bilqis from another place of the world within the twinkling of an eye: **“The One with whom was just a part of the Knowledge of the Book said: ‘I shall bring it to you within the twinkling of an eye!’ Then when (Solomon) saw (the throne) set in his presence, he said: 'This is by the grace of my Lord! to test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful!'” (Quran 27:40).
The source of this Divine Knowledge is God. He gave part of it to Prophet Adam (2:31), Jesus (5:110/113)… and some people who were not prophets like Taloot (2:247), and Asaf (see the above verse). According to Quran, “The knowledge of the Book” is for those who are immersed in Knowledge (3:7, 4:162), who are given authority by Allah (4:83), who are assigned by Allah as referee (16:43, 21:7), who are the stars of Guidance (6:97).
According to some traditions, the Knowledge of The Book is a part of the Greatest Name of Allah. The Greatest Name of Allah consists of seventy three units. These are not letters, but they are rather the knowledge of governing the universe. In one of the traditions in Usul al-Kafi, Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (AS) explained this issue as well as the mystery of the action of Asaf, the Minister of Solomon:Abu Ja’far (AS) said:** “Verily, the Greatest Name of Allah consists of seventy three units (Harf). Asaf possessed only one unit of it, and when he spoke it (i.e., used it) the ground between him and the throne of Bilqis (the Queen of Sheba/Saba) folded/subsided so that he could take the throne with his hands, and then the ground opened out and returned to what it was originally in less than the twinkling of an eye. We (Ahlul-Bayt) have seventy two units of the Greatest Name, and one unit remained with Allah which is kept exclusively in His knowledge of Unseen (Ilm al-Ghayb); and there is no efficacy or power except by Allah, the High, the Great.”** (Usul al-Kafi, Kitab al-Hujjah, Tradition #613)
As stated in Verse 27:40 of Quran, the one who possessed a small part of “the Knowledge of the Book”, was able to bring the throne of King Bilqis from another place of the world within the twinkling of an eye. So those who have the whole “Knowledge of the Book” should be able to do more! The whole knowledge of the Book was with Prophet Muhammad and his twelve successors. Allah, Exalted, said in Quran:"(O’ Prophet) say: Enough for witness between me and you is Allah and he who possesses the Knowledge of the Book." (Quran 13:43)
From the verse, it is clear that in the phrase “he who possesses the Knowledge of the Book”, Quran is specifically referring to a person other than Allah and Prophet Muhammad. Of course, the source of this knowledge is Allah and He possesses it and He also granted it to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HF) in full. However, the choice words in the above verse shows that “he who possesses the Knowledge of the Book” referred specifically in the above verse, is a person (or persons) other than Allah and His Prophet (PBUH&HF). It refers to Imam Ali (AS) and the Imams after him (see below for details).
Also notice that in the above verse, Allah does NOT say “a part of the knowledge of the Book” while Allah used the phrase “a part of” for the case of minister of Solomon.
Some Sunnis have mentioned that the above verse refers to Abdullah Ibn Sallam, the Jewish Rabbi who converted to Islam. some other Sunnis said that it refers to all scholars of the Jews and the Christians who found the attributes of the incoming Prophet in their ancient scriptures.
The above interpretation does not seem to be correct. “The knowledge of the Book” as Quran mentions in one more place, is not as simple as recognition of the attributes of the incoming Prophet in the scripture. “The knowledge of the Book” includes the knowledge of governing rules in the Universe. As Quran stated, Asaf had only a very small part of “the Knowledge of the Book”, and was able to do that extraordinary thing. Thus this type of power has no connection with just knowing the name of an incoming prophet from a book. Furthermore, if the Sunni interpretation is correct, then it means whenever Muslims have a question, they should refer to Christians and Jews, because they have the whole knowledge of the Book while Muslims do not!
Some may argue that if the above verse is referring to Imam Ali and the rest of the twelve Imams, then what sort of evidence will this be for the unbelievers who would not accept the words of Muslims by saying the above verse to them?
The answer is that the verse starts with the phrase: “And the Kuffar (unbelievers) say: You are not a messenger. Say: Sufficient as witness is…” As such, the verse is about Kuffar (unbelievers). They don’t believe in Allah either. Therefore, the same question may rise again: If the Kuffar do not believe in Allah, then what sort of evidence will be for them to say “Allah is the witness”?
The above verse is, in fact, just a threat by the Prophet (PBUH&HF) to unbelievers, that that will be accounted on the day of judgment for their blasphemy, and he (the Prophet) has enough two witness for that: One is, Allah, the Creator, and the other one is Imam Ali, the Prince of Believers. In general, it refers to all the twelve Imams. But at that time of the Prophet he was just Imam Ali (AS).
Witness to the fact that “he who possesses the Knowledge of the Book” in verse 13:43 refers to Imam Ali (AS) and no other companions of the Prophet, is the numerous traditions reported by both Shia and Sunni. It is confirmed in the authentic Sunni books that Imam Ali was the MOST knowledgeable man in the Muslim community after the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Those who testified this fact include: The Prophet (PBUH&HF), Imam Ali himself, Abu Bakr, Umar, Aisha, and many other companions.
The Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) informed his followers of the very existence of a man who was the treasurer of Knowledge of the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF), and he had declared to them that if they want to reach the Knowledge of the Holy Prophet, they should take that Knowledge from the treasurer:The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: “I am the City of Knowledge, and Ali is its Gate. So whoever intends to enter the City and the Wisdom, he should enter from its Gate.” references:
- Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 201,637
- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, pp 126-127,226, Chapter of the Virtues of Ali, narrated on the authority of two reliable reporters: one, Ibn Abbas, whose report has been transmitted through two different but chain of authorities, and the other, Jabir Ibn Abdullah al-Ansari. He said this tradition is Authentic (Sahih).
- Fadha’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p635, Tradition #1081
- Jami’ al-Saghir, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v1, pp 107,374; Also in Jami’ al-Jawami’; Also in Tarikh al-Khulafaa, p171. He said this tradition is accepted (Hasan).
- al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani (d. 360); Also in al-Awsat
- Ma’rifah al-Sahaba, by al-Hafidh Abu Nu’aym al-Isbahani
- Ihyaa al-Ululm, by al-Ghazzali
- History of Ibn Kathir, v7, p358
- History of Ibn Asakir
- Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v2, p337; v4, p348; v7, p173; v11, pp 48-50; v13, p204
- al-Isti’ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p38; v2, p461
- Usdul Ghabah, by Ibn al-Athir, v4, p22
- Tahdhib al-Athar, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari
- Majma’ al-Zawa’id, by al-Haythami, v9, p114
- Bahr al-Asateed, by al-Hafidh Abu Muhammad Hassan Samarghandi (d. 491)
- Siraj al-Muneer, by al-Hafidh Ali Ibn Ahmad Azizi Shafi’i (d.1070), v2, p63
- Manaqib, by Ali Ibn Muhammad Ibn Tayyib al-Jalaabi Ibn Maghaazi (d. 483)
- Firdaws al-Akhbar, by Abu Shuja’a Shirwayh Hamadani al-Daylami (d. 509)
- Maqtal al-Husain, by Khateeb Kharazmi (d. 568), v1, p43
- Manaqib, by Khateeb Kharazmi (d. 568), p49
- Alif Ba’a, by Abul Hajjaaj Yusuf Ibn Muhammad Andulesi (d.605), v1, p222
- Matalib al-Su’ul, by Abu Salim Muhammad Ibn Talhih Shafi’i (d. 652), p22
- Jawahi al-Aghdi’in, by Noor al-Din al-Shafi’i (d. 911)
- Yanabi’ al-Mawaddah, by al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, in Chapter 14
- Tadhkirat al-Khawas al-Ummah, by Sibt Ibn al-Jawzi (d. 654), p29
- Kunz al-Baraheen, by Shaikh Khathri
- Kifayat al-Talib, by Yusuf al-Ganji al-Shafi’i (d. 658), Chapter 58
- Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, part 15, p13, Traditions #348-379
- al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, section 2, p189
- Hafidh Salah al-Din al-Ulai, after copying the weakening arguments by al-Dhahabi, has remarked “There are in this only mean attempts to oppose for the sake of opposition, and not a single valid argument.”
- Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn Siddeeq al-Hasani al-Maghribi, from Cairo, has compiled a magnificent book named “Fat’h al-Mulk al-Ali bi Sihah Hadith-e-Bab-e-Madinat al-Ilm” to prove the genuinness of the very above tradition. This book was printed in the year 1354 AH in Matba’ al-Islamiyyah, Egypt.
- Also reported by Ibn Adi on the authority of Ibn Umar, and by al-Bazzar on the authority of Jabir Ibn Abdillah al-Ansari
… and more …
In the Arabic form of this Hadith, the word “The Knowledge” comes as “al-Ilm” which has the article “al” which makes the word universal. This means that in the city of knowledge of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), all kind of the knowledge (which could possibly be attained by human being) existed.
Remark: The above tradition also supports the infallibility of Imam Ali (beside what is conveyed by Quran 33:33 on the issue of infallibility of Ahlul-Bayt). The reason behind the non-intentional mistakes is lack of knowledge, i.e., not to know what is right to do at the time. Therefore, if Imam Ali (AS) contained all the knowledge of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), it reasons that if the Prophet was infallible, so is Imam Ali (AS).
In addition to that, al-Tirmidhi also recorded that:The Messenger of Allah said: “**I am the House of Wisdom and Ali is it’s door.” **
references:
- Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 201,637
- Ibn Jarir al-Tabari recorder this tradition and wrote: “We believe this tradition to be genuine and authentic.” (as quoted by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi in Kanz al-Ummal, v6, p401)
- Jami’ al-Saghir, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, v1, p170; Also in Jami’ al-Jawami’
- al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 9, section 2, p189
Moreover:The Messenger said to his daughter Fatimah al-Zahra (AS): “Would it not please you that I have married you to the first Muslim in my nation, their most knowledgeable, **and their greatest in Wisdom.” **
reference: Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, p136; v5, p26
Similarly, Barida narrated:The messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said to Fatimah (AS) that: “I gave you in marriage to the best in my Ummah, the most knowledgeable in them, the best in patience in them, and the first Muslim among them.”
reference: Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v6, p398
Abu Bakr said: “May Allah never put me in a situation where I can not have access to Abul Hasan (i.e., Ali) to solve a problem.” Similarly, Sa’id al-Musayyib said: “Umar Ibn al-Khattab used to beg God to preserve him from a perplexing case which the father of al-Hasan was not present to decide.” Furthermore Umar said: “If there was not Ali, Umar would have perished.”
references:
- Fadha’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p647, Tradition #1100
- al-Isti’ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p39
- Manaqib, by al-Khawarizmi, p48
- al-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa’d, v2, p338
- al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, v2, p194
- Tarikh al-Khulafaa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p171
Aisha once said: “He (Ali) was the most knowledgeable person among those who remained on the Sunnah (of the Prophet).”
Sunni References:
- al-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa’d
- Tarikh al-Khulafaa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p171
- al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 9, section 3, p196
- Ibn Asakir
Ibn Abbas (RA) said: “There was 18 exclusive virtues for Ali which was not for any other person in the Muslim community.”
Sunni Reference: al-Awsat, by al-TabaraniIbn Mas’ud said: “We were talking that the most trustful referee/Judge in Medina to solve the problems was Ali.”
Sunni References:
- Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 2, p6
- Fadha’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p646, Tradition #1097
- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p352
- Tarikh al-Khulafaa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p171
- al-Isti’ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, section of word “Ain”, v2, p462; v3, p39
- al-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa’d, v2, p338, He also reported that Umar said: “Ali was our Judge.”
- Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v1, p84
- Majma’ al-Zawa’id, by al-Haythami, v9, p116
- al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, v3, p213
Furthermore:Ibn Mas’ud said: “The Holy Quran has outward and inward meanings, and Ali Ibn Abi Talib has the knowledge of both.”
Sunni references: Hilyatul Awliyaa, by Abu Nu’aym, v1, p65
Much of the knowledge of the Prophet was transferred to Imam Ali (AS) when the Prophet was taking his last breath:Imam Ali said: “The Messenger of Allah at that time (before his last breath) taught me a thousand chapters of knowledge, every one of which opened for me one thousand other chapters.”
Sunni references:
- Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v1, p392
- Hilyatul Awliyaa, by al-Hafidh Abu Nu’aym
- Nuskhatah, by Abu Ahmad al-Faradi
Furthermore, Imam Ali (AS) once said:"By Allah, I am the Brother of the Messenger of Allah and his friend and his cousin and the inheritor of his knowledge. Who has a better title for succeeding him than me?
Sunni references:
- al-Khasa’is al-Alawiyyah, al-Nisa’i
- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim v3, p112
- al-Dhahabi in his Talkhis of al-Mustadrak has admitted the above words to be genuine.
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v5, p40
Also Imam Ali (AS) himself frequently stated in his sermons:“Ask me before you lose me. By Allah, if you ask me about anything that could happen up to the Day of Judgment, I will tell you about it. Ask me, for, by Allah, you will not be able to ask me a question about anything without my informing you. Ask me about the Book of Allah, for by Allah, there is no verse about which I do not know whether it was sent down at night or during the day, or whether it was revealed on a plain or in a mountain.”
Sunni References:
- al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v4, p568
- Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v7, pp 337-338
- Fat’hul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v8, p485
- Tarikh al-Khulafaa, by al-Suyuti, p124
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v2, p319
- al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, v2, p198
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa’d, v2, Part 2, p101
- al-Isti’ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p1107
Sa’id Ibn Musayyib as well as Umar Ibn al-Khattab said:“No companion of the Prophet ever said ‘Ask me’ except Ali.”
Sunni References:
- Fadha’il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p647, Tradition #1098
- al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v2, p509
- al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 9, section 3, p196
- al-Faqih wal Mutafaqih, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v2, p167
- Tarikh al-Khulafaa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p171
- al-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa’d, v2, p338
- al-Isti’ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p40
- al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, v3, p212
- al-Dhakha’ir al-Uqba, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, p83
The conclusion **is that “he who possesses the Knowledge of the Book” in verse 13:43 refers to Imam Ali (AS) and no other companions. And if “a part of Knowledge of the Book”, provided a supernatural power for Asaf, then it is clear that those who have the whole knowledge of the Book, have more ability of this type by leave of Allah. **Also according to the above tradition written in Sihah Sittah, in which the Prophet (PBUH&HF) said “I am the City of Knowledge, and Ali is its Gate. So whoever intends to enter the City and the Wisdom, he should enter from its Gate”, it is clear that the only source of knowledge after Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HF) was Imam Ali (AS), and those who seek other sources do not gain the genuine Sunnah of the Prophet because nobody can enter this City from a direction other than its door.
Concluding Remarks
It should be emphasized that The Twelver Shia Scholars believe that neither the Prophet nor the Imams possess the Knowledge of Ghayb with the special meaning used in Quran, since this type of knowledge is something which belongs to Allah only. However, as Quran mentions “news of Ghayb” have been transmitted to the Prophet Muhammad, and from that channel, it has been transmitted to the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt. What they fully possess is the Knowledge of the Book described above.
It should also be noted that the prophets and Imams share with the rest of humanity the means for obtaining knowledge which Allah has given: the senses, the intellect, etc. They also possess special powers and means which other people do not have. In carrying out the commands of Allah in which people have also responsibility, and likewise in ordinary behavior, the prophets and Imams only make use of the first way of knowing, that is the commonly available means. The second means (extraordinary means) is only used by them in duties and works which are connected with their position of prophethood and Imamat. Thus in matters such as knowing the beginning of the month, passing judgment, finding out if something is unclean or pure, etc., they make use of ordinary means such as sighting of the moon, and so forth, which anyone else employs. The extraordinary means of knowledge can not be the basis for their action, and what they volitionally do must be determined by the means available to everyone. Thus, such knowledge has spiritual aspect as being the Representative of Allah (Khalifatullah), and the reason for it must be sought on this level, and it is not for the purpose of influencing and controlling the events on the level of ordinary understanding.
Re: Martyrs
Who possesses the knowledge of the book?
Secondly, I dont understand why do Shia’s drag the term “Imam” in everything. I wonder (besides many more things): what is the concept of Imam in Shia’ism.
Mentioned where?
Should I call this rubbish?
Re: Martyrs
LOL, perhaps you overlooked the link I posted in that thread.
http://muslim-canada.org/hadratali.htm#ch78 ( A sunni Site claiming all that, but since you are not sunni, sorry )
If you are really interested in learning about the concept of Imam then I can gladly provide you with some links.
No, you cant call it rubbish, since its wtitten in your sacred books. Ask your ullema abou it.
edit:
Heres what Ibn Kathir says about that ayaha:
(and those too who have knowledge of the Scripture.) This refers to Abdullah bin Salam, according to Mujahid. However, this opinion is not plausible, since this Ayah was revealed in Makkah and Abdullah bin Salam embraced Islam soon after the Prophet emigrated to Al-Madinah. A more suitable explanation is that narrated by Al-Awfi from Ibn Abbas that this Ayah refers to Jews and Christians. Qatadah said that among them are, `Abdullah bin Salam, Salman (Al-Farisi) and Tamim Ad-Dari. The correct view is that this Ayah, (and those too who have. ..), refers to the scholars of the People of the Scriptures who find the description of Muhammad in their Books and the good news of his advent that were conveyed to them by their Prophets.
Re: Martyrs
Guys, this debate is not going to get us anywhere.
Ravage, I dont need to quote several Quranic Ayahs that state specifically that Allah is the only one who has the knowledge of ghaib(you can take it as future, past, things that are hidden). Yes, it does say that Allah can reveal this knowledge to whomever he wishes to. Now the question becomes, How did Hazrat Ali:as: get this knowledge? I hope that most of the my Shia brothers will ponder on that and answer the question based on logic rather than emotion. Did he recieve Wahi? I dont think so. In addition, it says in Quran, I am paraphrasing “O Muhammad:saw: tell them that I do not know about the future, but only what Allah tells me”. Think about it for a second, even if our beloved Prophet:saw: did not know about the future, than how come one of his companions know about the future?
Look, Hazrat Ali:as: was a great leader of Islam. He was a man of great stature and deeds. He showed us what bravery, strength, patience, and sacrifice is all about. For me these are great lessons, lessons that I hope to learn and pratice.
Re: Martyrs
Kaleem
i just have a question..do you know about the Qurani Ayat that talks bout Prophet's (pbuh&up) Family? and do you know who is considered the part of the Family? i will have to do some research and find some ahadith from both shia and sunni books that might clear some things up..but first thing first..i wanted to know if you knew bout Ayat-e-Tat'heer
Re: Martyrs
I dont agree, but since you have already decided that whatever shia do, it is wrong, so the discussion should be the way you want to think.
Why is it that only shias have to ponder or be unbaised (as told in another thread), why not get rid of that Ta’sub which covers your eyes. The ta’sub against the family of Rasul (saww). BTW have you read my above post? Seems pretty logical to me. 