marriage, debt and a manipulative family

Hi everyone ,

This is gonna be a long story but here it goes.

I come from a family where becoming a doctor was a main goal in life else ur a failure. I live in a european country. My elder siblings were sent to Pakistan to pursue a medical degree. Everything was paid for them.

Me, the youngest, was sent to a foreign european medical school at age 19. I thought since everything was taken care of financially for my elder siblings, the same would be done for me. My parents however, took out maximum student loans in my name. I wasn’t allowed to work ( because i was doctor sahib ki beti aur log kya kahenge). I was continuously reassured upon frequent questioning that my parents would take care of the loan.
During the first year of my medical school we find out my brother is gay. Halfway during medical school my father dies. I fail a year, since i was very close to my father. I switched to a cheaper medical school. I get engaged in 2012.

My family is unhappy with my engagement, because at the time me and my fiancé got into verbal disagreements, plus he is from a different sect, and is not a doctor and he is known in the community to be someone who has a temper. My family try to introduce me to other rishte,but i brush it off and plan a wedding with my fiancé for October 2014

Now about my sister: She lives in the USA. She has been continuously looking at one rishta after another for many years and rejecting all of them. She got married at age 31, yet her husband turns out be bipolar and they got divorced 3 years later. Thus started my sisters rishta hunt yet again. By now she is looking for and rejecting rishte for aprox 13 years and has turned 38. She hears from her doc that she needs to get married soon , else she might go into (pre) menopause soon and not be able to have kids.

My mother is supposed to join me in september 2014 to facilitate my marriage. However, my sisters demands she stay with her to facilitate her rishta search and my mother ends up not coming.

My future in laws are very embarrassed and disappointed since everyone was informed about an impending wedding.I am furious at this point. My mother suggests that i do a nikkah instead and get married when she comes back which is 6 mo later. I agree and i start contacting maulana’s to perform the nikkah. At this point my family freaks out again and says how can you do your nikkah without us. My brother starts harassing me. My sister calls my future in laws up and yells at them, saying ‘‘we are educated people and we marry after our education is over. Your son and our daughter are going around for years, whats the rush now?’’ My future in laws only respond by saying ‘’ if they are going around for years, maybe its time they get married.’’

My brother calls my fiancé up while i repeatedly tell him not to, and they have a verbal disagreement. My brother also starts grabbing me by the arm and shaking me, and while i am angry he makes a video of me and threatens to send it to my fiancé. I have to mention here, that i have alopecia , and i was not wearing my head coverings at that moment.

My family one by one asks me whether i am pregnant, and if not whats the rush? I get furious as i have not had any physical relations with my fiancé due to religious reasons. My brother gets people from the community involved, stating he was under stress and needed advice. On the one hand i am having fights with my family, on the other hand with my fiancé, so i run away to a hotel for the night. My brother comes after me and gives me a sleeping pill to calm me down at the instruction of my mother.

My fiancé feels bad for me and calls my mother up directly and talks to her in a decent way and says that if anyone bothers me anymore, they will have to deal with him. My family later interprets this as a personal insult. My mother and fiancé agree that the marriage will take place in 6 months. My health starts to deteriorate. 6 months go by and my sister keeps rejecting every rishta. After those 6 months, my family starts telling me that my fiance is the wrong guy for me and im making a huge mistake. I am not proud to say this but i got very scared to do anything (i froze), so the marriage got delayed again. We planned again to get married at the end of my medical school, yet when i asked my mother repeatedly to contact my future in laws to plan the wedding, she delayed everytime with some excuse. All this time my mother lives with me and my sister is continuously nagging her to come over to look at rishte for her since she is getting older.

My mother tries to introduce me to other people, people even come over, this doesn’t feel right to me and nothing materializes (obviously). Time goes by and i have turned 30. Everyone in my family keeps calling me crazy coz i frequently get angry at the situation (delayed marriage,debt). I have not run away and gotten married because my family has badmouthed me enough in the community and i want to be married off in a ‘normal’ way with respect.

My sister is now 41 and tells my mother she has ovarian cancer, yet her story has holes in it. She also says she got raped in the past. I highly doubt both stories. My mother wants to go to my sister. I tell her to get me married off first before going, since i don’t trust her coming back any time soon.

When i ask my mother about my debt, she says they were planning to pay it off by selling a property we have in Karachi. Till then she agreed to pay the monthly installments (and she has till now). The property was on my deceased fathers name and now finally has been put on her name. She however wants to take my sister with her to Pakistan when selling the plot, since my sister has more experience with buying and selling properties in the usa. This makes me furious.

Also, at this point, my mother is fed up with me and tells me to f*ck off to my fiancé, i say gladly, and am planning to get married right after the month of saffar (december). I am not on talking terms with my mother while we live in the same house.

After all that has happened i find it hard to trust people. I have become a nervous wreck, and have debilitating back and neck pains, due to which i am having trouble keeping a job. The positive thing is my future in laws have been very kind and patient with me, and my relationship with my fiancé has strengthened very much.

I would like to have objective opinions about the situation, since my immediate family seems to think i am the crazy one, while everyone else disagrees. I would like to know if my feelings are justified.

Thank you.

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Re: marriage, debt and a manipulative family

Dear I am so sorry to read this. May Allah help you. I am so sorry.

Re: marriage, debt and a manipulative family

I kniw it happens, you stop trusting people when your own family treats you like this. We have suffered things like that too, but what you are going through is terrible.

May Allah help you.

Re: marriage, debt and a manipulative family

Oh wow..its super long, Okay first lets lay out all the information here as cleanly as possible

First the problems: You have large debt, Your 30 and un-married, You have problems with all members of your immediate family, you have medical issues, your family doesn’t want you marrying your 3 years fiance because of "sect’ (which has cultural implications in the community) and potential temper issues.

So lets start with your fiance:
This is what your family says is bad about your fiance:
The argument about sect is kind of moot especially since your brother is gay, if your family cared about what the community thinks than the fact your bro is gay isn’t that already bringing you guys down in the eyes of the community. So with that in mind, already, screw your community and what they think (even if your brother wasn’t gay…screw what the community thinks)…
He has temper tantrums..that might be true it might not be, only you can decide..but by the looks of it, I think this is probably made up issue too…

You should ask your mom and brother again: Why don’t you want us getting married, and give clear and concise reasons. If you don’t agree with them thats is fine. Just see what they say and write it down.

The optimal scenario here I think is if you get married to your fiance, move away from the community and live where its only you two.

So now, lets discuss your fiance, I don’t know him so I’m just objectively identifying potential scenarios:

  1. you ignore you family wishes and marry him with nikkah..The implications of this will be: Your family will be pissed, however you won’t have to deal with them ever again. Even if he does have any anger issues hopefully he’s not crazy enough to hit you. And well who sticks around for 3 years!!! he must really love you. But Lets say he is abusive and is crazy and has anger issues, if you divorce him you will have to go back to your family. Due keep that in mind. We really don’t want to burn bridges… but in some cases you have too

  2. How come you haven’t told your fiance about your illness? How do you know after he marries you he won’t divorce you over the fact that you have hair loss issues? This is a huge red flag…one that your brother feels entitled to black mail you with it. And two that you haven’t told your fiance.

If you break up from your fiance and find a potential rishta that your family likes you have some ‘backing’ from your family, you might not be happy but it will potentially help solve your other issues, it might take time. You might be 33 or 34 when you get married.

The main problem as I see it, your family doesn’t want you marrying this guy. And even if you marry some guy that they tell you to marry, things won’t always work out for the better. This is a decision that you will have to make.

I would say your medical issues come from the stress that is coming from trying to get married and the familial stress…when that ends your health will un-doubtingly improve.

The debt issue is kind of sticky: You have to make some assumptions, Assume your mom wont pay it back (even if you marry who she wants, Assume that you’ll have to pay it back by working.
If you you marry your fiance: Assume your mom will be pissed and cut all ties and won’t pay off your loan. What will you do than? If you don’t care about your mom’s money than you’ll have to work hard with your new spouse to pay off the loan and thats something that your fiance won’t approve of he might just want you for your money as well…

So the decision here comes down to asking key questions with your fiance, is he willing to cover your debt? Is he willing to accept you with your illness..? is he’s willing to potentially move?

I feel you need to get these questions answers first before you can continue further and get married to him

In this scenario no one will ever be happy, you won’t be fully happy, your family won’t be happy or your fiance won’t be happy.

There are a lot of smart people on this forum that can write and explain better than me. Hopefully they can also shed some wisdom into your situation.

Re: marriage, debt and a manipulative family

You should tell your fiance about your hair loss issue, that isn’t fair to him.

Re: marriage, debt and a manipulative family

Dang that was a long read, ok here is my advice.

A)- Do you plan on working after completing your degree? Because if you are then you should be able to pay off your loans pretty easily, I don’t think you should worry about that at all. B)- This time, do not extend your marriage for some one else’s sake, this drama with family WILL continue. It could be that your older sister might feel a little jealous at you getting married first which can happen in siblings sometimes so I don’t think you should let that jealousy ruin your life. Just be strong and take that step no matter what anyone in your family says or whatever they accuse you of. The whole environment just seems so toxic and I think the stress is triggering medical issues. Your fiance seems like he is a caring guy so go for it.

Re: marriage, debt and a manipulative family

Thank you

Re: marriage, debt and a manipulative family

My families main issue is sect, and the convo they had in 2014. I only got engaged with my fiance with my mothers approval so i dont understand why sect is such an issue now. The convo they had was direct but not rude, i was on the phone w my fiance at the time so i know what was said. My fiance also called my mom the next day and jokes around w her yet they never mention that part. My fiance used to come over nearly every day to our house for 2 years before the 2014 occurance, so they know exactly what he is like.

The fiance:

  1. Yes he has a temper sometimes but i feel its not that bad. Its even better since i have been back to my homecountry, since our relationship used to be long distance coz i was studying abroad. No way would he ever hit me, no chance. He has stuck around for 6 years now, not 3. I dont want to burn bridges with my family and would like some contact with my mother.
  2. I have told him about my illness from day one. He has no problem with it. Just the fact that my brother could do such a thing hurt me a lot.
    I have also told my fiance about my debt since day one

About marrying someone else: I dont feel that would happen coz my family has the tendency to reject rishte for small reasons. Before i met my finace i had given my mother full control and said i will marry whoever you want me to and a lot of proposals came yet she rejected every single one of them. Ever since my sister has gotten divorced my family says with you it has to be perfect else people will say something is wrong with us. My sister often used to try to scare me out of getting married whenever i would visit her. Basicly too much manipulation going on i think.
Also, my fiance has invested 6 years of his life to this relationship, to betray him like that would be cruel.

The debt issue really infuriates me and its frustrating that i dont know whats gonna happen. I guess the smartest thing would be to not expect any help at all. My fiance used to have a problem with the debt, yet looking at the situation he says he will help and has saved up a bit and is trying to generate more money via investments etc. I want to work to reduce the debt. I really hope when i leave this house my health will improve so that i can be more productive.

Re: marriage, debt and a manipulative family

Yes, i am working now even though its very minimal. I wont delay now anymore no matter what

Re: marriage, debt and a manipulative family

Ive told him from the beginning, he doesnt have a problem with it.

Re: marriage, debt and a manipulative family

You have a good education, that can help solve 90% of your issues. Focus on your career, work on being independent, so that you won’t need anyone.

Re: marriage, debt and a manipulative family

Why do you want your mom to pay off your debt? Why can’t you finish your school, get a job, and work on paying off your debt?

Also, if I were you, I would just get married and move on with my life.

Re: marriage, debt and a manipulative family

Coz they maxed out on my loans and used most of it for their personal gain, and told me for years they were gonna finance my studies like they did for my elder siblings. But yes, i am working on the loan.

Re: marriage, debt and a manipulative family

man just marry the guy and screw your family lol…family is supposed to love you and want better for you ut it doesn’t look like they do.

Now if you marry him and have issues, that’s a separate thing–keep it independent from your family issues, aka if he has a truly badtemper, like abusive, etc, don’t stay in it just out of pride for your family, kwim?

Re: marriage, debt and a manipulative family

So they are not obligated to pay for your studies, maybe things changed. They shouldn’t have used that money. Some families are good. some aren’t. You became a doctor and that is an amazing thing. You can look at the positives in your life to be happy. Every day in my life I have enough reasons to jump off a bridge and enough to be ecstatic, your choice what you gunna run with.

Just wanted to write an update: I actually did get married 6 months ago to my fiance. In december 2017 I was kicked out of the house by my mother and sister, i stayed with a friend for a few days and within a few days of getting kicked out, i got my nikkah done. Despite everything that happened i tried to include my mother in my wedding. She turned up for my nikkah and stayed 1 hr at my walima. And decided to travel the day i had my henna ceremony. But… alhmd i have never been happier as I have been after marriage. My husband and in laws take good care of me and my health has drastically improved. My family has completely disowned me at this point but I definitely prefer it this way as they bring too much toxic energy for me to deal with.

You are defo lucky everything went well in the end. Sometimes we all have to man up and take decision in our hands. Hope it continues to blossom forever.

Cheers!