I found this on net…thought that some of u might like to read manto…?Any Mantu Fans out there???
Kher Enjoy…
Naik,
Zia Mohiuddin read it in one of his Udoi tapes.....He does a very good job at it.....Mazza Dooballa..
wah wah wah wah...
aur dhoondain.
Nova sahib…i have heard about those tapes…
http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif
…and i have checked every single desi store in NY…but Tuff Luck
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Aap kuch idea dijiay na kahan se milleiN geiN yeh tapes???Plzzzzz…Pretty Plzzzzz:)
X factor sahib…meiN aweiN meiN hi dhoondhooN…aap khud dhoondiye na:)mill jaye kuch tou mujhay bi bataaye ga:)
Manto has long been accused of inappropriate sexually oriented literature in his works by some of his ignorant critics. I have read few books by Manto, allegedlly the contraversial ones as well and in my opinion, he simply narrates the mirror image of the society.
He tells the story from his character's point of view or the state of life they are going through and he does not fuse in any implied and biased judgement affected by mass opinion in doing so. And I personally think that by doing so he leaves a deeper mark in the minds of the readers.
Among many other topics, he wrote stories on the lives of prostitutes (If I am not mistaken, one of his famous character is a prostitute named Shardha or something like that), or young women who went through different phases of their adolescence or sensual encounters and I personally find his work to be of great literally measures.
He writes it just plain, as it is and that's what makes it so remarkable. His style of writting puts more emphasis on clarity of narration and idea than incorporating more literally eloquence into the story.
I have not heard to those two Zia Mohiddin tapes in a long while. I feel like digging up my tapes collection to find them and listening to them :)
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some of his ignorant critics.
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Rom....the guy was prosecuted twice for obscenity(sp?)...and don't forget first time it was "Agraiz Sarkaar", who entitled him as an obscene writer:)
and u'll agree that he strictly chose to write about the topics which were (and still are) severely tabooed by the middle class of the sub continent....he mostly wrote about sex, prostitutes and women of easy morals...Sighs Naik LarkiyooN per bi eik shtory likh maarta tou kia jata uska haiN???
Its his obsession wid sex and his craving for what is repellant( isn't that quite evident?)that jars the sensitive reader....its stories like "ThanDa Gosht" and "Bu" which even shocks the modern reader....
Kher obscene or not (coz we all hav diff stdrds)...he was a good very good writer....tells his story simply and directly....his detachment is is also noteworthy...he doesnot inflict himself on reader.....as u said he lets the character tell his story:)and leaves a deeper mark in the minds of readers....
You have those tapes????.....Sighz
Dil jalanay ki baat kertay ho
NaikLarki,
If I would to consider convictions of poets and writers throughout the history of Urdu literature as a valid and justifiable measure of judgement of their works, I won't touch any of Faiz's books.
If I were also to take standards of critique from the middle class you are talking about on deciding what's tabooed and what's not, I won't give half the respect I give a raped woman now.
Does writting about sex, prostitutes, and women of easy morals means obscenity? The answer is 'it depends'. It depends on what the content is. If it's pornography then yes, it is obscene. If it's Manto then no, it's not.
That's one hell of a tragedy that our literature has suffered from throughout the very beginning. We talk about emotion, the passion, but very selectively. We forget that sensuality is also a human passion. If you exploit it, it becomes obscenity but Manto never exploited it. He never meant his work to be taken as a cheap means of sexual pleasure. It was just a mirror. It was just a mirror of how things happen in the society.
When I think about 'Thanda Ghosht', I never think about sex. For 'Bu', I don't remeber the story.
BTW, I spent a whole hour finding that Noor JahaN tape in which she sings
*Aashiyaanay ki baat kartay ho
dil jalaanay ki baat kartay ho
hum ko apni khabar nahi yaro
tum zamanay ki baat kartay ho*
You got to hear her singing it sometimes, it's wonderful. Do you know who the poet is? I sure did forget like all of the rest of the things.
Yeah I am here a Manto Fan. I don't know if anybody remember Karachi Tv had a Drama series called Manto Rama. They showed some of Manto's work. I am looking for those dramas, if anybody has any or know how to get them, Please Please let me know. Money is not a problem (Pani Key Terhan Baha Doon ga) but I need those Dramas, Specially the one with a story of a Prostitute, I don't know the name but I think that was the best Drama ever produced by Karachi TV or may be the best Drama Pakistan TV can produce. Manto's Character was played by S M Saleem, I think the best actor from Karachi. If you want to see good Dramas, see that series and I bet you will forget about the rest. (Except Khuda Key Basti)
I read this novel long long time ago (Naik, you must be very young for not to have read it), and at many levels I consider my own style to be influenced by Manto. I don’t think his trepidation was really a trepidation. It was a snivel of exasperation and sadness mixed together that we read as dejection.
I believe Manto to be a very influential (although not really enough for what he deserves) Urdu writer.
Toba Tek Singh is a beautiful small town not too far from Lahore. There was some religious movement some years ago to change the name of the town. The locals (in the true spirit of Manto) beat up the Mulla who wanted to change the “Hindu” name to something Islamic. The story has it that Toba Tek Singh brought water to the town, and that’s how the Town was named after him.
[This message has been edited by NYAhmadi (edited March 21, 2000).]
The only short story i’ve read of Manto’s to date (haaN sharm ki baat hai haina
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?) is Toba Tek Singh…it is the one set in an asylum right? (Read it over 10 years ago!) Theek thi…
I’ve never read any of his controversial stuff…not out of choice, kabhi mawqa hi nahin mila hai…
Sighs....I never wanted to discuss "ThanDa Gosht" here....i am more like "Tauba-tul-Nasooh" or "Miraat-ul-Aroos" kinda person..:)
Kher my initial objection was that word "Ignorant" Rom used there for mantu's critics.....and what i wanted to say was that
just because those ppl belong to a different school of thought doesn't mean that we shud call them ignorant....there were ppl like Maulana Tajwar Najibabadi and Agha Shoras Kashmiri among those critics....and no there stdrd of critiques were not the middle class stdrds...they were well renowned and highly respected litrary scholars.....
Now back to obscenity(sp?).....
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Does writting about sex, prostitutes, and women of easy morals means obscenity?
[/quote]
U r right...the answer is it depends....it depends on how well the writer is handling the subject.....how the narrator is narrating the story.....manto was a great story writer.....a master of his arts....he has dealt wid those topics quiet beautifully in stories like "Kali Shalwar"...(another of his controversial story)....and ofcourse "Shaarda", "Gopi chand narang" and "Mommy".......I like Mantoo as a writer because of his stories like "Gopi...." and "Mommy"....I like him because of "Khol Du".....and i really think that "khol du" is the best urdu story i ever read.....
But stories like ThanDa Gosht and Bu and even DhuaaN do disturbs me.....not because of their themes....but because of description and details of those lewd scenes....obscenity is obscenity...no matter written by whom...it will remain obscenity even if its bein written by a great writer like mantoo;-)
But Manto has written more than 250 stories.....and i won't call him an obscene or porno writer just because of 2 or 3 stories.....and i wud like to remember him as the writer of "khol du" and "toba tek singh"...than...Thnada gosht and Bu.....i'll consider those stories just couple of minsus on a great writer's account:)
Ahmadi Sahib....i was 12 when i first read that story....and i didn't understand the theme at that time:) but those scenes in the story.......*Blushing...abb kiya kahooN*
JohnD.....aaj tak tou mujh ko zia moiuddin ki cassettes nai milli ....aap yeh dramooN ki nai pasooRi daal du...huh
Asif Bhai.....Bare hi shurram ki baat hei aap ne aaj tak Mantoo ko nai paRha....tauba tauba....aap khud ko bakhshvayeiN ge kesay? ;)
Ps. Rom...
Aashianay ki baat kertay ho
Dil jalanay ki baat kertay ho
Mujh ko apni khabbar nahiN yahaN
Tum zamanay ki baat kertay ho
Saari duniya ke ranj-o gham de ker
Muskaranay ki baat kertay ho
Zikr mera sunna tou chiR ke kaha
Kis deevanay ki baat kertay ho
Haadsa tha guzar gayaa hoga
Kis ke jaane ki baat kertay ho
by Javaid Qureshi
and i like it in reshma's voice much better:)
Pss. and some times i wonder....whats wrong wid the mirror image from 120 degree angle??
Well, considering the stereotypical severity of those critics calling his work obscene, it deserves the equivalent label. On times one just needs to be forthright in what he/she believes in than be literally correct. I personally don't find anything wrong with that.
Now, you see we differ in opinion on Thanda Ghosht, and nothing wrong with that at all. You look at it differently (I really wish I had the story read before I would be writting this as I don't remember the language and description etc - I'm going by my impression of it when I read it years ago and discussed it with friends) but at the same time you do admit that that's not his majority of noteable work. But some of his critics simply labelled him such. That's what's wrong.
Thanks for the poet's name, I heard the ghazal the other day gizzillions of times. Personally, I don't find ReshmaN's voice too appealing although she's sung couple of good songs and lok geets.
Pss. and some times i wonder....whats wrong wid the mirror image from 120 degree angle??
I'm not sure if that was meant for me, but if it was, I have no clue what you meant. However, considering a mirror, image, and sight purely unsymbolically, I would say nothing wrong with even all other possible angles :)
Where can I get these stories of Manto from?
I'd especially like to read the "controversial" ones first to see if I think they are obscene or not? (I was told that the story Lihaaf by Ismat Chughtai had been criticized/banned for obscenity but when I read it main ne socha ke eh, is mein to kuchh hai hi nahin jo ke controversial ho?!! Perhaps Manto will be similar...)
:)
(I guess that we have stricter standards for obscenity for Urdu writers than for english ones--eg nearly every modern english novel will have some sex scenes described in it--in Urdu this would be considered too much...)
Well yes there's nothing wrong in difference of opinions....thats what my point is:)and yes i also do think that those critics were a bit harsh on the guy...just because of 2 or 3 stories they shudn't have labeled him an obscene writer....aur wesay be i think a writer shud be judged by his best work not the worst one.....
and hey have i mentioned earlier that i am a manto fan?:)
And that 120 angle remark was for u too:)and what i meant was that why look at the reflection of the world or society directly in the mirror.....why not just bend the mirror slightly and see the 120 degree reflection....it wudn't hurt the sensitive eyes :)
Asif bhai...:).....Ismut chughtai was a Naik Bacchi:) And Lihaaf was an innocent story
(compare to manto):) and i guess it was its theme which disturbed the readers of 40's....:)
and...
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nearly every modern english novel will have some sex scenes described in it--in Urdu this would be considered too much...)
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Yea right in urdu they r considered too much....thats why critics r being hard on manto:)
PS. I love reshma's voice.....her voice, the Dard ,the Soz in it reminds me of "Sehra ki koyal".....Sighz i am listening to the song right now.....
*
dil jalanay ki baat kertay ho*
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Where can I get these stories of Manto from?
[/quote]
Asif bhai....yahaN koi kisi ki help nai kerta...koi kisi ko favor nai deta....mujhay aaj tak zia moiuddin ki cassettes nai milli tou meiN kiyoon aap ko bataooN ke aap ko books kidher se milleiN geiN :)hehehe:)
Jaan de dooN gi per nai bataooN gi
Asif bhai…yahaN koi kisi ki help nai kerta…koi kisi ko favor nai deta…mujhay aaj tak zia moiuddin ki cassettes nai milli…
You know, all it takes sometimes to ask somebody that you need copies of the tapes - I’m sure there are nice people around here who can make copies for you (don’t look at me though
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)
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I'm sure there are nice people around here who can make copies for you (don't look at me though)
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Well i donno many ppl around here.....and u already said, "don't look at me"..:)Sighz
But lemme give it a try....since there is no harm in asking...
Helloooooo Nice ppl out there.....
I need copies of zia moiuddin's cassettes:)
if u r nice enuff contact me ASAP...my email is [email protected] :)
Phewwwwwwwww...it was not that hard
:)
[This message has been edited by NaikLarki (edited March 28, 2000).]
NL,
Even if I try to be nice, I can't. I found out the two tapes I have of Zia Mohi-ul-din (titled Zia Mohi-ul-din kay saath ek shaam: Mahfal-ay sher-o nasar Dec. 1986 vol 1 & 2) don't have Toba Tek Singh listed.
I guess you are gonna have to go to Pakistan just for them :) If you do decide so, could you please bring me copies as well.. I also have a list of books I need from Pakistan :)
Even if I try to be nice....
I am sure u don't need to try:)
Kehnay meiN kiya hurj hei..;-)
I saw him in a TV show once....he was reciting Rashid's "Mere bi heiN kuch khawaab".....sighz ....what a voice....eik baar sunni hei dobara sunn'ne ki hasrat hei....Hasrat...:)
That voice not specifically Toba Tek Singh:)
PS. No plans for a pak trip in near future...
PSS.I know couple of online book stores...they have a great collection of books....:)
PSSS. And btw whats in those tapes???Do they have Rashid's "Khwaab"???:)
NL,
It got iqtabasaat from different writer's works, and few poem recitations etc.
Some of the names are Mushtaq Ahmad Yousafi, Patras Bukhari, Noon Meem Rashi, Asad Mohmad Khan, and Ratan Nath Sarshar.
I think it does not have Rashid's Khawab
[This message has been edited by Roman (edited March 29, 2000).]