Male Introspection

Lifestyle Relationships
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Directed to males (whatever few frequent this section):

Are you cognitively aware that your culture gives you the upper hand in lots of things, and do you actively use this upper hand?

Like, lets say you know that your culture gives you the final decision on a rishtaa or household decisions, or that it gives you the right to tell the women of your family what to do, or talk down to women, or think of them as stupid, etc etc… do you try to live up to this defined role of a dominant Pakistani male?

Or are you just flat out ashamed of it?

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Re: Male Introspection

Looks like you have done a pretty good job putting women in a pigeon hole yourself, without any man's help, if that is what women feel and percieve that men are trying to do.
The village I came from in Pakistan, girls are not married off without their full consent.
My Mom started a one room school for children before she was married. and kept herself involved with teaching through out after getting married.

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PCG, while guys may have the upper hand in some areas there are others where they would forever be in a jam. culture and circumstances may dictate a joint family system yet begum wants her own place regardless of the dude's responsibilities towards his parents. he moves he is a bad son, he stys he is a bad husband. the saas and bahoo cant grow the hell up and learn to communicate and tolerate each other, and he is smack dab in the middle, whatever side he takes he is in trouble, if he stays out, he is aloof and does not care..gets it from both sides. if he is very easy going he is zan mureed, if he is tough or if he just expects some discipline, he is a tyrant.

message to all the girls...please dont marry jackasses...do your due diligence, or have your parents do their due diligence. do nto pick some moron to spend your life with, and then stay stuck in decades of whining about it. Please take some control of your body and dont have kids until you have had a better idea of whether u can live a life with the man, and please please please, make sure you are educated and are capable of living independently if u want to walk, whether or not you have kids.

PCG- yes jackass men make eomwn's life hll, mostly limited to their wives and in some vases daughters and lesser cases sisters. This cultural male dominance you are talking about, who propogates it..do the baaps go and see rishtas and do chai parades... no its the mothers...does the baap of the guy tlk about chaand si bahoo, no its the mother. whats vulturally more prevalent.. susar-bahoo fights or saas-bahoo, deqar-bhabhi or nand-bhabhi

fact is, you women have made your own lives miserable. stop doing this to yourself, and stop doing this to other women.

lets not blame all ills on guys. mucho gracias.

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Re: Male Introspection

^^ Nothing more to add left.

A counter thread should be named "Women Retrospection".

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Well but hold on, didn't God give you guys the upper hand? So you can't get around the bad influence of ammi ji?

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Mr. Fraudia :k:

WitchDr
A counter thread should be named “Women Retrospection” :smiley:

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ahh but I am not taliking about the bad influence here PCG. Bad influce comes from both parents and that is a whole new discussion.

What I am talking about here is that majority of the issues desi women cry about are not related to men. I gave you a few examples.

What I am talking about here is direct action and impact… I just mentioned specific crap of our culture that is not only propogated, practiced and supported by women, but its direct impact is on women as well.

Yes guys have an upper hand in many areas, but the jorr-torr of khandani kabbadi is something from which they are usualy aloof…and that is what majority of the complaints are about.

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I completely agree with your sentiments here. It is women who propagate the more ridiculous traditions and look for ways to oppress other women. When my nand was seeking a bahoo for my BIL, she wanted a girl who was subservient and wouldn't mind taking care of the ILs while BIL worked overseas. This is the same nand who complained about being oppressed by her own MIL for years till her divorce.

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Amana

I agree, it amuses me when I hear ladies complain about how teir daughter's MIL is not treating her well, ..while they are bossing their own bahus around.

The desi concept of chai parade with larkay walis checking prospects out like hyenas look at a prey..its disgusting.

reminds me of a story, call it amusing sad whatever. Soemone in my family was not getting rishtas, she is not that attractive, not that confident, not really interesting, and in general not someone who would impress you with looks or brains. Her family was not very social so limited pool of potential rishtas to even look into, and she was not outgoing and confident and did not have it in her to meet someone herself.

This is the background...so she is still umarried, mid thirties, but...when it came to her brothers, she wanted to do the whole chai parade, this girl is too dark, this one is too short, this one is too this. etc etc. Similar comments made about her.

It shocks me, I mean you of all ppl should know, you of al ppl should take a diff approach, and you of all people should be against these chai parades since you refused to even go for those anymore.

dunno if she is bitter and thus treating others like she felt she was treated..or what, but chand si bhabhi type of approach..i dunno

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Don't get me wrong here - I agree that women are each other's worst enemy. However, most of you are conveniently ignoring my original question. A person makes their own decisions in the end. So what goes on in your male minds (question is for each of your individually, so there will probably be a variety of answers).

I agree with your points Fraudia, but I think my question is aimed at a different angle - i.e. - what is the male thinking process. Is it explicit thoughts of seeing the self as the dominant figure, and executing actions based on that? Or is it subtle thoughts that you're not even aware of - like you're behaving dominantly and you wouldn't even think you were until someone pointed it out to you.

I hope you see the question is different.

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[quote=PyariCgudia]
Don't get me wrong here - I agree that women are each other's worst enemy. However, most of you are conveniently ignoring my original question. A person makes their own decisions in the end. So what goes on in your male minds (question is for each of your individually, so there will probably be a variety of answers).

Both sexes play psycological games in all situations. The only domination males have is the physical domination generally speaking. There are countless situations in every family where women call the shots and they are the real power brokers. A woman has the power to creat havoc in a man's life as a wife, mother, lover you name it.

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everyone is different and everyone will reply differently....some males are dominant....others are totally opposite.....others are in between. even 2 brothers brought up in the same house can turn out totally different....

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totally agree

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PCG, there is no particular Pakistani culture. We have a number of over-lapping sub-cultures in Pakistan. It's true that males get an upper-hand in many ways, but, I think many women roles command more respect in Pakistan than in other cultures. What I mean to say is that there is no overriding culture dictating individuals to act in a particular fashion. People can choose.

'Your culture' is mainly the function of the values of the society you live in, the values of your immediate family/friends, and the thought process that is unique to you.

Now that you know the definition of my culture, I'll proceed to answer your questions. The answers are based on personal experiences and may not be reflective of the values of the whole society.

[quote]
lets say you know that your culture gives you the final decision on a rishtaa or household decisions
[/quote]
Well, it doesn't give me the final word. I know a number of women who have said 'no' to rishta, or even broken off engagements. There were no consequences.

[quote]
or that it gives you the right to tell the women of your family what to do, or talk down to women, or think of them as stupid, etc etc...
[/quote]
My mother thinks I'm stupid. I agree with her. (Although I never admit it). I can't think of any male in my family who disrespects women. But, I personally know a man who slapped his wife's face. I also personally know a woman who has slapped her husband more than once.

[quote]
what is the male thinking process. Is it explicit thoughts of seeing the self as the dominant figure, and executing actions based on that? Or is it subtle thoughts that you're not even aware of - like you're behaving dominantly and you wouldn't even think you were until someone pointed it out to you.
[/quote]
I think, it is the subtle thoughts of seeing myself as a dominant figure that makes me give greater respect to women and, ignore silly things many of them say or do. The explicit thoughts dictate me to treat them just as I'd treat a man, as many women don't want to be looked upon as soft or delicate. So it's usually the subtle thoughts of dominance and a cultural expectaion to show greater care for women (partly because they are oppressed in many ways) that overwhelms the desire to treat them as I treat men.

In the end, I'd say that a child is usually influenced more by his mother than his father. Many would argue that both father and mother are equally responsible for their children's character building, which is true. In many cases, father could be the major influence. Yet, mother has a pivotal role in shaping her son's personality. She can make a difference.

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Some of you people need to go to religion forum more often.

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^ why?

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PCG, i completely (atleast i think i do) understand your concern/shikayat..

however, as others have pointed out above, it takes two hands to clap. Male alone can’t do anything.

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:rolleyes: fraudia

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Mr. Fraudia sums up pretty well

Well put :k:

And I know a few MEN who were forced into marraige, but not a single women in my extended family ( and a big one)

Same here :hehe: mothers know us inside out

Whenever I raise voice over lack of respect for men (as compared to women) in Pakistani urban setting you people take it as a joke, or consider me weird.
But I only speak truth and you Women do not want to believe this :rolleyes:
Just because it is inbuilt functionality of women to whine, it becomes rather difficult to offer gratitude to men and to your God.

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Why the roll eyes, It was a very valid question. or do you want people to go to religion forum, read some random posts and infer what you are trying to say, would it not be easier to just state what you are trying to draw people’s attention to?

merci