Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
That's okay Hareem, I reckon he forgot to take his 911 meds today. :)
Your the one with Captain America as your profile pic and im the coconut?!?!
But seriously, I jest, and its all in good fun. Criticism is due for America as well, but not in this case. I thought that little rhyme was a nice follow up to yours. :D
Still I would love to know, if the media is all propaganda and its bias, then where should we go for our information?
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
You deserve warning points for this.
Really? Why?
Have I offended your highness?
Unless 'crap passing from your ass' is a usual phrase that you use in your polite conversation amongst your offline social circle, hareem is right
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
.
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
Your the one with Captain America as your profile pic and im the coconut?!?!
But seriously, I jest, and its all in good fun. Criticism is due for America as well, but not in this case. I thought that little rhyme was a nice follow up to yours. :D
Still I would love to know, if the media is all propaganda and its bias, then where should we go for our information?
You use your brains to figure out what makes sense and what doesn't and don't buy all 'facts' thrown your your way by mainstream, corporate media as gospel. There is alternate media also.
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
[note]
Do I need to remind you all that this is not a Cafe thread? Get back to the topic or open a thread in Cafe.
[/note]
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
Unless 'crap passing from your ass' is a usual phrase that you use in your polite conversation amongst your offline social circle, hareem is right
Calm down...
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
^ TLK is right. Let's be nice.
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
You use your brains to figure out what makes sense and what doesn't and don't buy all 'facts' thrown your your way by mainstream, corporate media as gospel. There is alternate media also.
So for example, most sources say that the majority of people killed by drones were in fact militants, and civilian deaths were in the minority. So what does your common sense tell you? Common sense would tell me that since the alternative would be equally devastating, if not more, then drones are the least of all evils.
Which is the alternate media?
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
So for example, most sources say that the majority of people killed by drones were in fact militants, and civilian deaths were in the minority. So what does your common sense tell you? Common sense would tell me that since the alternative would be equally devastating, if not more, then drones are the least of all evils.
Which is the alternate media?
That's not true. Please refer to my previous posts in this thread or go to wikipedia and read upon drone attacks in Pakistan.
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
So for example, most sources say that the majority of people killed by drones were in fact militants, and civilian deaths were in the minority. So what does your common sense tell you? Common sense would tell me that since the alternative would be equally devastating, if not more, then drones are the least of all evils.
Which is the alternate media?
Who are the sources that have verified that majority of the killed are militants and what evidence have they presented to the world ?
Alternate media is any that is not considered mainstream, corporate sponsored and controlled. You will have to do your own research.
Even if you watch mainstream media, you need to take all news/analysis with a pinch of salt and not accept everything on face value. You have to work on separating fact from fiction.
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
Saleem posted the following with links:
Latest … until 10 Oct 2012:
Drone attacks in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reported by Bureau of investigative journalism
Total drone strikes (from 2004 to 10 Oct 2012): 347
Total reported killed: 2572 (Min) to 3341 (Max)
Civilians reported killed:474 (Min) to 884 (Max)
Out of those civilians, total number of children ~ 176
Total injured: 1232(Min reported) to 1366 (Maximum reported)
That means 2398 (Min) to 2457 (Max) terrorist animals got killed due to drone strikes
Until March 2009, 9 out of top 20 A-Q commanders got killed by drones (the figure must be much higher today). Result was that, to save their lives, many top A-Q and Taliban commanders moved out of Tribal areas to settled areas, especially Quetta and Karachi.
**Compare that with number of innocent civilians, Pakistan government officials and Pakistan armed personals these Taliban and A-Q animals killed … that I believe could be in 10s of thousands, thousands of them children.
In my opinion, even though few hundred civilians got killed due to drones, drone strikes killed few thousand terrorists. Actually, drone strikes also saved lives of many innocent Pakistanis by not only killing these A-Q and Taliban animals but causing fears in their heart and mind.
[As for number of children that got killed, it is believed that some of them who got killed I believe in 2006, were getting terrorist or suicide training in one of the Madrasas during night time (hours before fajar), so if the report is right than these children were brainwashed and were Taliban weapons for killing innocent civilians].
…
**Now a problem with wikipedia is that anyone can post anything. But even if we assume that it is accurate i would simply say this.
The Taliban and other like minded militants must be fought. So we will have civilian death, because this is a war. Its simply how it is, I cant sugar coat it.
Taliban are killing Pakistani/Afghan civilians, govt officials and soldiers. No one is taking action against them, the PAK army is not doing its job.
Pakistan has effectively given up on its own sovereignty, the Taliban control large swathes of the FATA without any govt oversight. They are independent in all but name. So violation of sovereignty by drones is disingenuous at best.
The Taliban attack Afghanistan and Pakistan at will, and no one is doing anything about it. The Americans arent allowed in to pakistan, yet the Pak army does nothing to constrain either those attacking Pak or those attacking Afghanistan or Nato.
Under these circumstances, the drones are the only effective means left.
The drones arent really any more or less advantageous then other means of warfare, except they are all thats left. Aerial assaults by jets would be just as or even more devastatng. An all out invasion wil result in mass displacement, but has the advantage of clearing the area and forcing the enemy underground as is the case with Swat. However, until the Pak army decides to do something about the TTP, that option is of the table. So again, all thats left is targeted drone strikes.
And in the over all scheme of things, if you consider how many have died at the hands of militants compared to how many have died by drone strikes, I think its clear, that taking out the militants will save far more lives then are taken.
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
now these savages are threatning to kill Malala’s father.
**PESHAWAR: A spokesman for the Swat Taliban has threatened to kill 14-year-old schoolgirl Malala Yousufzai’s father after a failed attempt to assassinate his daughter, said a report by Reuters.
Taliban**
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
Saleem simply copy pasted it from wiki and knowingly EDITED OUT the links which show heavy civilian casualty figures.
300 drone strikes have done no good to Wazirastan and Pakistan in fact it has done the opposite. Killings and suicide bombings have increased in all parts of Pakistan since the drone attacks, more hatred for Americans as well as for non-pashtuns. According to a report only 1 in every 50 casualties is a militant. Just because you don’t like these reports you cannot ignore them. All the human rights organizations have shown deep concern over drone attacks and none of them support it.
Any human with little bit of humanity in him won’t support such war. it’s not war, it’s ethnic cleansing.
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
Who are the sources that have verified that majority of the killed are militants and what evidence have they presented to the world ?
Alternate media is any that is not considered mainstream, corporate sponsored and controlled. You will have to do your own research.
Even if you watch mainstream media, you need to take all news/analysis with a pinch of salt and not accept everything on face value. You have to work on separating fact from fiction.
I believe its according to reported deaths. Reported and confirmed by officials, locals etc. Or do you think that every death from a drone strike is unreported? But lets weigh the evidence, on one side we have multiple sources that tell us that few civilians have been killed over the past so many years, on the other we have people giving their own opinion on the issue, telling us mostly civilians are killed. I would go with the original sources.
Still im willing to acknowledge that barring anyone actually being on the ground and seeing for themselves what is actually happening, no one can truly know. however, regardless of how many civilians are killed, however unfortunate, there is no alternative at present.
Ofcourse you have to take things with a grain of salt. Everything in life is taken with a grain of salt. But if we are going to debate, we need sources. If you dont have sources, then you have nothing but opinion, and thus its pointless.
By the way, does can count as mainstream? Because as far as drone strikes go, they actually agreed with you to some extent!
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
**SWAT: Police in Swat have arrested three key suspects believed to be involved in the attack on Malala Yousafzai, *Express News *reported on Friday.
**Malala had come under attack when she was on her way home from school. The Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) spokesperson Eshanullah Ehsan had claimed that the militant group was behind the attack.
The arrest of the suspects was announced by the District Police Officer (DPO) of Swat, however, he did not reveal any names. The suspects were moved to an undisclosed location for further investigations.
The DPO said that the mastermind of the attack, Attaullah, will also be arrested soon.
Interior Minister Rehman Malik had earlier claimed that the attackers had been identified.
Malala Yousafzai, 14, who won international recognition for a blog about the horrors of life.
Malala attack: Swat police arrest three key suspects – The Express Tribune
I think, just by saying we have arrested, suspected guys is not good enough, they should release complete information of these guys. In many other other cases, we have heard this before, suspected guys were arrested, but then there is no follow up on that story afterwards.
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
Saleem simply copy pasted it from wiki and knowingly EDITED OUT the links which show heavy civilian casualty figures.
300 drone strikes have done no good to Wazirastan and Pakistan in fact it has done the opposite. Killings and suicide bombings have increased in all parts of Pakistan since the drone attacks, more hatred for Americans as well as for non-pashtuns. According to a report only 1 in every 50 casualties is a militant. Just because you don't like these reports you cannot ignore them. All the human rights organizations have shown deep concern over drone attacks and none of them support it.
Any human with little bit of humanity in him won't support such war. it's not war, it's ethnic cleansing.
The suicide bombing have increased because the Taliban have gone on the offensive. They didnt attack Pakistan because of the Drones, they did so inspite of them. One could argue that had it not been for the drones, the strength of the Taliban might have been greater not less.
The question that begs answering here is, if drone strikes are indeed the justification for Taliban anger, why is that anger displaced onto civilian targets? what does the bombing of shrines, and girls schools, have to do with drone strikes? What did Malala have to do with drone strikes?
And to be quite honest with you, I was actually coming around to the opinion of those who believe these are counter productive. And recently there have been a slew of Western outlets and thus propagandist bs, namely the guardian and CNN, among others saying the toll on civilians is to high. However, with the attack on Malala, it quite clear that the people who are the targets of these drones, are not amenable to reason. And barring any action from the Pakistani state, Drone strikes are the only alternative to state apathy.
All wars are inhumane and all wars cause human suffering. The issue here isnt with drones, its with War in general. And the War is this case is not optional. What makes you think that other means of warfare will be any more humane?
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
I believe its according to reported deaths. Reported and confirmed by officials, locals etc. Or do you think that every death from a drone strike is unreported? But lets weigh the evidence, on one side we have multiple sources that tell us that few civilians have been killed over the past so many years, on the other we have people giving their own opinion on the issue, telling us mostly civilians are killed. I would go with the original sources.
Still im willing to acknowledge that barring anyone actually being on the ground and seeing for themselves what is actually happening, no one can truly know. however, regardless of how many civilians are killed, however unfortunate, there is no alternative at present.
Ofcourse you have to take things with a grain of salt. Everything in life is taken with a grain of salt. But if we are going to debate, we need sources. If you dont have sources, then you have nothing but opinion, and thus its pointless.
what world you're living in? There is no "official" record or data because US forces and pak army didn't even bother to keep the record nor did they confirm if they actually killed a militant. Why do you think they have been highly criticized by the human right orgs and UN?
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
From what I hear of the way the Pak judicial system works, most suspected militants are released for lack of evidence.
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
what world you're living in? There is no "official" record or data because US forces and pak army didn't even bother to keep the record nor did they confirm if they actually killed a militant. Why do you think they have been highly criticized by the human right orgs and UN?
And you know there is no record of actual militant targets because?
They were criticized because in many case they deserve criticism... And?
Re: Malala Yousufzai attacked
I think, just by saying we have arrested, suspected guys is not good enough, they should release complete information of these guys. In many other other cases, we have heard this before, suspected guys were arrested, but then there is no follow up on that story afterwards.
For the time being they should have not made even this news public lest accomplices run away. They should first complete their investigation/interrogation and once all perpetrators are arrested, only then they should go public with the results.