malala k malal main doobay log !

[yazdi]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

@STA

I appreciate your concern, we all are also understand this pain and condemn coward actions of terrorists. But on the same time it is not good to ignore those victims too who killed in control actions (drone strikes), while they considered most civil nation of the world. and this part of the story is most annoying. A pain is a pain, either malala or non-malala. No one is making political incident, but it is turning into one and that is really sad. Asking about same level of respect for all other girls is not bad practice but also a good attitude too. The one who only emphasizing this incident, should also speak up against those incidents too. But when they ignore those incidents it clearly shows that they are making it political issue with bad attitude.

First of all these two cases are not related like IK and religious minded are hell bent to make them related.

1. TTP’s who is responsible for 40,000 innocent killings in Pakistan never relates them. Their stated policy is that they want to bring their political-theological mentality in to the governance in the country and they are not ashamed to use violent means to achieve their political-theoligical objectives.

2. Our state has been sponsoring and now admittedly in past, groups with militant objectives in India, Afghanistan, and other countries in the name of strategic depth. These militants have become so strong now that they have territorial control over North Waziristan and certain areas from where these militants are planning, training, and executing attacks on other parts of Pakistan and have desire to hit targets in some other countries as well.

3. We have a choice.. we can resolve as a nation that we will not allow our land to be used against any other country or our own country for any militant designs for what so ever reasons however justified they are. If we are not able to curb these activities someone else will. The international coalition against terrorism have legal mandate to carry out armed struggle against terrorism through UN charters for which we are signatories. If we are not willing to act against these militants within our own territory than we can not cry when others attack our territory with drones. Basically it is our own responsibility to keep our territory free of militant planning, training, and execution for the intention of carrying out terrorist activities.

4. I really feel fed up with this non sense attitude specially by our religious minded people that drones are responsible for terrorism against our innocent population. The fact is we are sitting on a time bomb.. if one major incident of large magnitude happens in any country where 3/4.000 people are killed.. and the links come from our territory.. I am afraid the action will not confine to drone attacks after that. I can tell you before hand.. we’ll have to face carpet bombing after that. To avoid this dreadful scenario we must act today and our own forces should act against these militants with full resolve. As a nation we should have zero tolerance from ay sort of militancy for what so ever reasons and back our own armed forces to clean this filth from our country.

My emotional friends who continue this rant of relating drones with unjustified killings of our own innocent citizens.. will be the first to run away if the nation has to face increased armed aggression by foreign forces if militants succeed in carrying out a major terrorist attack of large magnitude in some other country.. Please use our upper chamber before it’s too late..

[Silaaj]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

First of all these two cases are not related like IK and religious minded are hell bent to make them related.

1) TTP's who is responsible for 40,000 innocent killings in Pakistan never relates them. Their stated policy is that they want to bring their political-theological mentality in to the governance in the country and they are not ashamed to use violent means to achieve their political-theoligical objectives. ... My emotional friends who continue this rant of relating drones with unjustified killings of our own innocent citizens.. will be the first to run away if the nation has to face increased armed aggression by foreign forces if militants succeed in carrying out a major terrorist attack of large magnitude in some other country.. Please use our upper chamber before it's too late..

Expecting an equivalent response to 2 evils is not irrational. If people ask for a cessation to drone attacks, it does not in any way mean they are soft on Taliban. It is no secret that Taliban have used drone attacks and army operations as justification for attacks on civilians. It is also no secret that out of the 40,000 civilian deaths you noted, a major chunk has died in political rivalries, business enmities, and normal everyday crime, which has been conveniently lumped into the terrorism fold by our good-for-nothing law enforcement and interior ministry.

A step wise targeted response to the scourge of Taliban should be given a chance, and I believe, will take care of this menace. The drones are not hurting the Taliban as much as they are hurting the civilians. Some genius here wondered what those civilians were doing in the vicinity of the taliban, and that being in physical proximity to a terrorist, they deserved to be bombed as well. By that definition, entire Karachi should be flattened, as every Karachiite is living in close proximity to some bhatta khor, kidnapper, terrorist, or murderer?

[muqawwee123]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

Brother, what you wrote is not true. Please try to learn Islam from right sources and you will know the problem of Taliban.

A true Muslim is secular and seems liberal because he knows that all are going through their own test from Allah and are responsible of their own deeds. Actually, what we see around is according to Allah’s plan, as Allah test one person from another and one group of people from another.

On judgement day, no one is going to carry another person’s burden (from Quran). Anyhow, that statement is partly true, as the one who wronged others would be carrying the burden of person he wronged [according to one hadith, the most unfortunate person is the one who earned lot of good deeds in this world, but his wrongs to others would mean all his good deeds going to those he wronged and their bad deeds (burden) on his head].

So, a Muslim do not interfere with the works, creeds, and deeds of others (unless their works, creeds and deeds effect his life directly) ... but if Muslim decides to do so (interfere) hoping for extra rewards from correcting others, then he deals with others in most polite way without causing Fitna or harming others.

Thus, if one is a Muslim, they would never harm others (for any reason including religion) and would live letting others live the way they like. Taliban animals are not doing that, rather they create fitna wherever they go, shows that they are not Muslim.

Due to Islamic principle, no true Muslim cares or would care what Taliban are doing with their life and what religion they follow as long as Taliban lives a life without effecting the life of others. If Taliban decides not to grow beard instead grow long moustache, or Taliban decides to pray standing on their heads, or pray dancing rock-n-roll, then also there would be no problem.

Unfortunately, these rabies infected animals are not living their life, but are interfering with lives of others (innocent Muslims). They are doing everything to impose their retarded beliefs on Muslims using force. They are such a lunatic bunch of idiots that they even strap bombs to blow themselves in market places, public gatherings, or even mosques, with intention that by doing so (kill or maim innocent Muslims) they would go to Jannah. And that is the problem, their interference in life of others. So, they could not be left alone but should be killed (in every possible way) just like one cannot leave rabies infected dog alone rather kill that dog at first opportunity.

Thanks for advice brother, but you didn't get my point. I don't support animals in the disguise of Mujahids. My concern is simple which is I'm trying to convey from my first post in this thread. Don't generalise religious people as Taleban on suspicion basis. There is a strong feeling in religious classes (way before 911 and even before so-called Afghan Jihaad) that there is a lobby who always wanted to portray negative image of Muslims and that lobby is getting fruitful results by deviating our thinking minds by portraying every religious person as Taleban.

We need to address concerns of those people. If not addressed, these people will finally take wrong sides.

[jobsikd]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

Khuda ka naam len yr.... Ye kon si discussion kr rhe hain or wo b in molvi hazrat k liye.. Aj tk muje ye batain k in movion ne aj tk koi scientist, koi doctor ya kuch or banaya ha... ye islami taleem denay ki bat krte hain jinhen ye ni pata chal saka aj tak k dunya ki taleem b islami taleem ha... or plz ap log yahan firqa ki discussion mat kren hum sb muslaman hain or ek Rasool ki Ummat hain.. To ye difference krne se kuch ni ho ga... Hamain mil k Islam or APne logon ki bhalayi k liye kam krna ha... Nafrat phelane se hum Khuda or us k Rasool dono k gunnahgar hon ge

[Zero_one]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

U wanna a stop to drone attack

Well try these steps

1. Gather all PPL with influence (social, political, religious etc.) and get them along one line and that is Humanity and it's Values as lived by Hazrat Muhammad SAW are a prime example

2. Target those who still act against the writ of state (but do it urself e. g. no Nato or US etc.)

3. Start the clean up process with Military to eradicate the whole mess

---

On a different note:

The day the Family of someone High Ranked Military Officer is targeted by a Drone u'll see all of a sudden the change in Mood ..... I can't understand the anger of PPL who r against drone attacks but Folks there r two sides to it: the one who commits and the one who lets it happen and guess what our own Military is deep in it ..... exactly those who r supposed to protect its citizen ..... the long list of missed persons etc. etc.

U see the difference:
24 Soldiers Shaheed = Strong Protest and the Supply Route is closed
Hundreds of innocent Civilian killed by the same Forces and things go on as if nothing happend ..... No String Protests, no Bans no nothing

[STA]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

@jobsikd

Khuda ka naam len yr… Ye kon si discussion kr rhe hain or wo b in molvi hazrat k liye.. Aj tk muje ye batain k in movion ne aj tk koi scientist, koi doctor ya kuch or banaya ha…ye islami taleem denay ki bat krte hain jinhen ye ni pata chal saka aj tak k dunya ki taleem b islami taleem ha… or plz ap log yahan firqa ki discussion mat kren hum sb muslaman hain or ek Rasool ki Ummat hain.. To ye difference krne se kuch ni ho ga… Hamain mil k Islam or APne logon ki bhalayi k liye kam krna ha… Nafrat phelane se hum Khuda or us k Rasool dono k gunnahgar hon ge

No, they are not responsible for making doctors and engineer, its universities job. Ulema are expert of deen and you are totally bringing fazool argument.

@jobsikd

Khuda ka naam len yr… Ye kon si discussion kr rhe hain or wo b in molvi hazrat k liye.. Aj tk muje ye batain k in movion ne aj tk koi scientist, koi doctor ya kuch or banaya ha…** ye islami taleem denay ki bat krte hain jinhen ye ni pata chal saka aj tak k dunya ki taleem b islami taleem ha.**.. or plz ap log yahan firqa ki discussion mat kren hum sb muslaman hain or ek Rasool ki Ummat hain.. To ye difference krne se kuch ni ho ga… Hamain mil k Islam or APne logon ki bhalayi k liye kam krna ha… Nafrat phelane se hum Khuda or us k Rasool dono k gunnahgar hon ge

Come with specific claim, because your claim is too general, if you saw any incident then open new thread so we can look at that.

@jobsikd

Khuda ka naam len yr… Ye kon si discussion kr rhe hain or wo b in molvi hazrat k liye.. Aj tk muje ye batain k in movion ne aj tk koi scientist, koi doctor ya kuch or banaya ha… ye islami taleem denay ki bat krte hain jinhen ye ni pata chal saka aj tak k dunya ki taleem b islami taleem ha… or plz ap log yahan firqa ki discussion mat kren hum sb muslaman hain or ek Rasool ki Ummat hain.. To ye difference krne se kuch ni ho ga… Hamain mil k Islam or APne logon ki bhalayi k liye kam krna ha… Nafrat phelane se hum Khuda or us k Rasool dono k gunnahgar hon ge

Looks like you just entered in thread and talking about out of context thing, no one is discussing about fiqa/school of thought, and this point shows that totally missed the point of this thread.

@jobsikd

Khuda ka naam len yr… Ye kon si discussion kr rhe hain or wo b in molvi hazrat k liye.. Aj tk muje ye batain k in movion ne aj tk koi scientist, koi doctor ya kuch or banaya ha… ye islami taleem denay ki bat krte hain jinhen ye ni pata chal saka aj tak k dunya ki taleem b islami taleem ha… or plz ap log yahan firqa ki discussion mat kren hum sb muslaman hain or ek Rasool ki Ummat hain.. To ye difference krne se kuch ni ho ga… Hamain mil k Islam or APne logon ki bhalayi k liye kam krna ha… Nafrat phelane se hum Khuda or us k Rasool dono k gunnahgar hon ge

No, I can not see any such post over here. Please point me if you have seen it.

[STA]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

@yazdi

First of all these two cases are not related like IK and religious minded are hell bent to make them related.

1. TTP’s who is responsible for 40,000 innocent killings in Pakistan never relates them. Their stated policy is that they want to bring their political-theological mentality in to the governance in the country and they are not ashamed to use violent means to achieve their political-theoligical objectives.

2. Our state has been sponsoring and now admittedly in past, groups with militant objectives in India, Afghanistan, and other countries in the name of strategic depth. These militants have become so strong now that they have territorial control over North Waziristan and certain areas from where these militants are planning, training, and executing attacks on other parts of Pakistan and have desire to hit targets in some other countries as well.

3. We have a choice.. we can resolve as a nation that we will not allow our land to be used against any other country or our own country for any militant designs for what so ever reasons however justified they are. If we are not able to curb these activities someone else will. The international coalition against terrorism have legal mandate to carry out armed struggle against terrorism through UN charters for which we are signatories. If we are not willing to act against these militants within our own territory than we can not cry when others attack our territory with drones. Basically it is our own responsibility to keep our territory free of militant planning, training, and execution for the intention of carrying out terrorist activities.

4. I really feel fed up with this non sense attitude specially by our religious minded people that drones are responsible for terrorism against our innocent population. The fact is we are sitting on a time bomb.. if one major incident of large magnitude happens in any country where 3/4.000 people are killed.. and the links come from our territory.. I am afraid the action will not confine to drone attacks after that. I can tell you before hand.. we’ll have to face carpet bombing after that. To avoid this dreadful scenario we must act today and our own forces should act against these militants with full resolve. As a nation we should have zero tolerance from ay sort of militancy for what so ever reasons and back our own armed forces to clean this filth from our country.

My emotional friends who continue this rant of relating drones with unjustified killings of our own innocent citizens.. will be the first to run away if the nation has to face increased armed aggression by foreign forces if militants succeed in carrying out a major terrorist attack of large magnitude in some other country.. Please use our upper chamber before it’s too late..

you again missed the point, actions of those groups are condemnable. I do agree with your 1st and 2nd argument, but I have concerns on 3rd and 4th.

Drones are not justified, they are killing more innocent people. You cant justify killing of innocent people, and it indeed wrong. Scope of this thread is cover those people who are ignored by western plus our own intellectuals.

I could not understand your problem. If the killing of innocent is unjust then its mean it is unjust disregard of killer. and here you are not showing that attitude. Even EU and TLK condemn that thing.

and for your last comment. dont be late, use it accordingly and condemn wrong thing first.

[Sa1eem]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

Thanks for advice brother, but you didn't get my point. I don't support animals in the disguise of Mujahids. My concern is simple which is I'm trying to convey from my first post in this thread. Don't generalise religious people as Taleban on suspicion basis. There is a strong feeling in religious classes (way before 911 and even before so-called Afghan Jihaad) that there is a lobby who always wanted to portray negative image of Muslims and that lobby is getting fruitful results by deviating our thinking minds by portraying every religious person as Taleban.

We need to address concerns of those people. If not addressed, these people will finally take wrong sides.

Brother, you are welcome. Actually, Taliban and their likes are a phenomenon that was predicted in Hadith books and it is easy to recognise them too.

According to a hadith, there would be a group (sect or whatever) amongst Muslims during the last days near Qiyamah, whose seemingly commitment and love for Islam would be beyond imagination. These people would be following Islam and worship rituals of Islam with so much commitments and details that to doubt them of being misguided would be almost impossible. But in reality, they would leave Islam just like an arrow leaving the bow without a trace. Outwardly, they would be pious Muslims, but in reality they would be Shaitan incarnate. [This was same with Kharjees during the time of Hazrat Ali (RA) ... that outwardly they were pious Muslims but in reality they were incarnate of Shaitan, hence were declared Kharjees or people who left Islam or are outside of religion Islam].

Few of their signs are:
1: They would judge Muslims and would declare them Kafir (they would be takfeeries ... same as Kharjees of Ali (RA) time).

2: They would have large number of so-called Islamic scholars with them (scholars who would be themselves incarnate of Shaitan).

3: They (and their so-called Scholars) would take Quranic ayahs out of context and would use Quranic ayahs meant for Kafirs on Muslims.

4: They would bring Fitna and Fisad on earth, especially on Muslim lands.

5: All humanity would get affected by their Fitna and Fisad, but Muslims would get affected by their fitna and fisad most.

6: They would kill Muslims in great number after doing takfir on them.

7: They would be so committed that they would not hesitate to give away their life and every bit of their property for their cause ... cause they would consider as Islamic (even though their cause would be un-Islamic, actually it would be only Fitna and Fisad)

8: They would be stubborn and would not listen to any arguments or logic, but would stick on their interpretations of Islam without budge, regardless of their interpretation being illogical, un-Islamic or even against teachings in Quran.

9: It is recommended (in hadith) that if Muslims find them then they should do jihad with them and kill them wherever they find them.

Etc ... Etc...

Now think ... and you will find a group (sect) these days that fulfils above category (some or all of it) easily, and only one needs to open their eyes to recognise them. Taliban and groups involved in sectarian killings are obviously amongst the group mentioned.

As for saying that there is strong feeling in religious classes that there is a lobby who want to portray negative image of Muslims ... then believe me, there is no such religious class other than Taliban sympathisers who thinks like that ... and fact is that it is these so-called Muslims and people they support (Taliban, A-Q, sectarian outfits, etc) who are portraying negative image of Islam, not Muslims or any lobby who talk against Taliban and expose them as people who do not represent Islam.

[Amal]

Sa1eem can you give reference to the list you have mentioned?

[Shero]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

What happened to Malaa was not good but what attacks on Madrassas by America and our own Army is also brutality of same kind we need to stop both things

[yazdi]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

@STA

you again missed the point, actions of those groups are condemnable. I do agree with your 1st and 2nd argument, but I have concerns on 3rd and 4th.

Drones are not justified, they are killing more innocent people. You cant justify killing of innocent people, and it indeed wrong. Scope of this thread is cover those people who are ignored by western plus our own intellectuals.

I could not understand your problem. If the killing of innocent is unjust then its mean it is unjust disregard of killer. and here you are not showing that attitude. Even EU and TLK condemn that thing.

and for your last comment. dont be late, use it accordingly and condemn wrong thing first.

You did not read my post carefully.. I have emphasized on using our upper chambers.

Drones are wrong because in addition to killing terrorist they also kill innocent citizens..

But why do we have drone attacks while nobody ever has thought of using drones against Bangladesh..??? Why are they using drones in the first place..???

Because in Bangladesh they do not have lawless territories where militants breed, plan, and hide.. and as a state we have failed to tackle this problem on our own..

Drones are not the best way to hit the terrorist.. but tell me what other option does the world has to hit these militants when we do not show any resolve to curb this problem of militancy on our own. I am afraid if we continue with these debates without any real action we should be prepared to face worse in future..!!!

… and I am expressing these opinions because I want least harm to innocent people and better economic opportunities for my country.. I don’t live in an illusion that we can undertake an armed war against the whole world.. and I still prefer to live in the real world unlike some people on this forum who refuse to come out of their fairylands..

[muqawwee123]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

You did not read my post carefully.. I have emphasized on using our upper chambers.

Drones are wrong because in addition to killing terrorist they also kill innocent citizens..

**But why do we have drone attacks while nobody ever has thought of using drones against Bangladesh..??? Why are they using drones in the first place..???

Because in Bangladesh they do not have lawless territories where militants breed, plan, and hide.. and as a state we have failed to tackle this problem on our own..**

Drones are not the best way to hit the terrorist.. but tell me what other option does the world has to hit these militants when we do not show any resolve to curb this problem of militancy on our own. I am afraid we continue with these debates without any real action we should be prepared to face worse actions in future..!!!!

... and I am expressing these opinions because I want minimum harm to innocent people of my country.. I don't live in an illusion that we can undertake an armed war against the whole world.. and I still prefer to live in the real world unlike some people on this forum who refuse to come out of their fairylands..

Aren't there terrorists in American society? Is American society 100% crime free? why don't they use drones in their country?

There is no justification of drones. If these drones kill our so called guards (who consume major part of our tax money), there would be retaliation, but when civilians are killed, everyone tries to justify them.

[yazdi]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

Aren't there terrorists in American society? Is American society 100% crime free? why don't they use drones in their country?

There is no justification of drones. If these drones kill our so called guards (who consume major part of our tax money), there would be retaliation, but when civilians are killed, everyone tries to justify them.

If there are terrorist in USA they use every possible means against them. Can you show me one place like North Waziristan in USA where their army can not go.. and terrorist practically have their laws implemented in that territory. Leave USA.. show me any other country in the world with this kind of no go areas for the state personnel..

If we also act against terrorist seriously.. nobody in the world will consider attacking our territories with drones..

[muqawwee123]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

@yazdi

If there are terrorist in USA they use every possible means against them. Can you show me one place like North Waziristan in USA where their army can not go.. and terrorist practically have their laws implemented in that territory. Leave USA.. show me any other country in the world with this kind of no go areas for the state personnel..

If we also act against terrorist seriously.. nobody in the world will consider attacking our territories with drones..

army can waste their resources on fronts like Siachin, but can’t operate against the terrorist in Waziristan so invite drones for killing civilians. Hats off to such army

[Kinzz]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

Any uPdate?

[Kinzz]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

Wesey, I was Just wondering 2 other girls were also shot with malala and they were innocent too,then why no body is talking about them?

[Sa1eem]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

Sa1eem can you give reference to the list you have mentioned?

Obviously, what I quoted is not ‘cut and paste’ that I can give you reference where you can read them (in part or whole).

Anyhow, whatever I mentioned is Kharjees related and related to Fitna-o-Fisad mentioned in Quran, hadith and various books. So, if you read about Fitna-o-Fisad of Akharat and about Kharjees, their influences, their characters, and their ways, you will know where I got those points.

Actually, those who know about Kharjees in detail and Fitna-o-Fisad mentioned in Quran-o-hadith in detail would have thought that I am talking about Kharjees, but similarities between Kharjees and Taliban is such that those who have not read about Kharjees and Fitna-o-Fisad mentioned in Quran-o-hadith, would think that I am talking about Taliban and sectarian outfits in Pakistan. :)

[Sa1eem]

Re: malala k malal main doobay log !

Wesey, I was Just wondering 2 other girls were also shot with malala and they were innocent too,then why no body is talking about them?

It is because those two girls are victims of Taliban and not ‘icon’ representing a value. People are talking about Malala because of the values she stood for and got shot because of that stand. She is not remembered as girl Taliban shot, a girl whose values no one knows or recognise.

You can say that ‘just like Taliban made her target because of her values, people are remembering and honouring her because of her values and acknowledging her that she got shot because of her values’.

[Just imagine, values of those two girls are completely unknown. They could have similar values what Taliban have or what 'Malama and most Pakistanis' have, we cannot tell unless we go and ask them, but as for Malama, her values were already recognised before she got shot. Actually, Taliban also knew the values she stood for, and shot her for that].