Looters ransack Baghdad / UN accuses USA, UK of violating Geneva Convention (merged)

Are the illegal occupation forces prepared to enfore law and order in Iraq? Do they dare stop the “liberated” people…?

Looters ransack Baghdad hospitals

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) says two key Baghdad hospitals, and many other smaller ones, have been ransacked, as looting spreads across the capital. ICRC spokeswoman Nada Doumani told BBC News Online that armed looters had stripped the al-Kindi, a key hospital in north-eastern Baghdad, of everything, including beds, electrical fittings and medical equipment. She said another major hospital, the 650-bed Medical City, was also surrounded by armed men and was running low of water and medical supplies. Baghdad’s hospitals have already been under severe strain in recent days as they try to cope with the casualties caused by the coalition’s aeriel bombardments of the capital, as well as fighting on the ground.

Re: ICRC says looters ransack Baghdad hospitals, others forced to close...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Malik73: *
Are the illegal occupation forces prepared to enfore law and order in Iraq?

[/QUOTE]

After the war is over.

Re: Re: ICRC says looters ransack Baghdad hospitals, others forced to close...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *

After the war is over.
[/QUOTE]

You promise? :)

Re: Re: ICRC says looters ransack Baghdad hospitals, others forced to close...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *

After the war is over.
[/QUOTE]

as long americans are in iraq, this war will never be over. the more they will bomb iraq the more they will earn :-)

Re: Re: Re: ICRC says looters ransack Baghdad hospitals, others forced to close...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by EntityParadigm: *

as long americans are in iraq, this war will never be over. the more they will bomb iraq the more they will earn :-)
[/QUOTE]

EntitiyParadigm,

How you figure? Could you elaborate on that theory?

let me refresh your mind miss

america is responsible for the re-construction of iraq and by some luck and fortunate, they have got allll the contracts so far to do the work in iraq. and further, they think that they deserve the right to sell iraqi oil to cover up the costs for liberating iraqi people :-)

rest you can figure out yourself. if you can't then your just as smart as your mr-bush is :-)

Baghdad - the day after

After the huge PR show other day bringing down the Statue, the fierce fighting in Bag Dad continues. The Regime has been replaced by the anarchy. No running water and electricity for days in Bag Dad. Many people are afraid to leave their homes as the US troops seem more and more as occupation forces rather than liberators. All this while the differences exist in Bush admin as which puppet to install in Iraq.

Arson, anarchy, fear, hatred, hysteria, looting, revenge, savagery, suspicion and a suicide bombing says Robert Fisk

UN accuses USA, UK of violating Geneva Convention

Downing Street today called for the media to take a “reality check” before claiming that anarchy had descended on the streets of Baghdad.
The prime minister’s official spokesman was responding to claims from the UN that the UK and US were failing the Geneva convention by failing to control looting in Iraq.

Asked when calm might return to the streets of Baghdad, Mr Blair’s spokesman said: "I think it’s important to have a bit of a reality check here. Without condoning what’s happening, let us at least try and understand it.

"We are actually seeing here a pattern that’s been played out in other countries where a repressive regime has fallen.

"We saw a similar mixture in Kosovo and Sierra Leone, but initial disorder does give way to stability and that’s what’s happened in Basra.

"The situation there is now calm. We believe that model will work throughout Baghdad. Let’s also understand that in the main this anger and disorder is being directed against the regime and symbols of the regime that has brutalised its people in a systematic way, a regime which has kept itself rich while keeping its people poor.

"The action against some of the hospitals in Baghdad is being directed at those hospitals which were the preserve of the elite of the regime.

“Clearly there is an issue about how that is dealt with and what everybody wants is to get to a situation where these hospitals are functioning on behalf of all the people of Baghdad.”

The spokesman went on: "Efforts will clearly be made to do what we can to ensure that hospitals function as well as possible.

"This is something that the coalition is very mindful of. We are still aware of the challenges and the importance of this issue.

“But I think to lurch, as some people appear to have done, into the idea that the situation in Baghdad is worse than it was before the coalition arrived is to try to revise the history of one of the most brutal regimes we have seen in the 20th century.”

Earlier, the UN office of the humanitarian coordinator for Iraq (UNOHCI) said one of Baghdad’s biggest hospitals, al-Kindi, had been ransacked and access to medical centres was almost impossible because of the “breakdown of law and order”.

And this morning the international development secretary, Clare Short, called on the military to make a “massively bigger effort” to end looting and chaos in Iraq.

Hospitals have been ransacked as the jubilation which marked coalition victories has turned to lawlessness.

“The coalition forces seem to be unable to restrain the looters or impose any sort of controls on the mobs that now govern the streets,” the UNOHCI said in a statement.

“This inaction by the occupying powers is in violation of the Geneva conventions, which explicitly state that medical establishments must be protected, that the wounded and sick must be the object of particular protection and respect, and that hospital personnel must be protected and must be free to carry on their duties.”

It added: “This situation not only endangers the lives of the war wounded, but of all patients who need regular treatment, such as dialysis in city’s hospitals.”

The organisation, which has no personnel in Iraq, said it was given an assessment of the situation in Baghdad yesterday by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) who has a media liaison officer in the capital.

“The picture he painted over the phone can be summed up in two words: anarchy and chaos. There is no law and no order at the moment in Baghdad,” said the UNOHCI.

But despite the bleak picture the ICRC has resumed its visits to hospitals in Baghdad saying the security situation was still “volatile”.

A UNOHCI spokeswoman based in the Jordanian capital Amman said as soon as it could guarantee the security of its staff it would be sending humanitarian aid into Iraq.

Ms Short, speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, said that “there must be a much bigger effort to stop this looting and violence”.

She said: "We had looting in Basra, but it is a lot better in Basra now. But we need a massively bigger effort.

“It should focus on hospitals. There were lots of injured people. The Red Cross can’t get through. There isn’t water, there isn’t power, they are running out of drugs. It is an absolute priority to make the hospitals safer.”

Ms Short agreed it was “politically unsustainable” to say the Iraqi capital had been liberated when people were looting heart monitoring machines from hospitals.

“I think everyone understands that. Our chief of the defence staff has been in touch with General Franks to secure the Red Cross compound and now they will be talking more about these issues,” she said.

“Obviously chaos feeds on itself and is a very ugly thing and this is the top priority now.”

Ms Short has gone back on a pledge to quit the cabinet if Britain went to war without a further UN resolution.

She repeatedly refused to say whether the war had been a price worth paying today, dismissing the question as not “interesting or important or useful”.

Ms Short indicated she accepted collective responsibility as “a member of the daily cabinet, we are working together”.

However, she added: “All human beings have different stresses in their priorities and mine is the humanitarian and the reconstruction.”

And asked again whether she agreed the war was justified, she added: "I agree we are where we are and all good people should be united in the way I described [to rebuild Iraq].

“Honestly I don’t think that is interesting or important or useful. What we should all do, as I have made clear, is unite around what needs to be done.”


Typical of the USA - violating treaties that it signs. At least before, the Bush administration tried to pull of of treaties before attempting to break them (environmental and START treaties).

This time, Bush had sunk to a new low, clearly violating the Geneva Conventions without first attempting to declare the USA free from having to abide by them.

And now Bush’s occupation forces are dragging the UK down to the level of the USA…

what?
i thought Geneva Convention was only for other countries excluding U.K, and Britain :-)

how dare they accouse such great nations of violation a stupid convention they don't even believe in :-)

Re: UN accuses USA, UK of violating Geneva Convention

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *

Typical of the USA - violating treaties that it signs. At least before, the Bush administration tried to pull of of treaties before attempting to break them (environmental and START treaties).

This time, Bush had sunk to a new low, clearly violating the Geneva Conventions without first attempting to declare the USA free from having to abide by them.

And now Bush's occupation forces are dragging the UK down to the level of the USA....
[/QUOTE]

This is truly sad, this is what the US wanted all long, not Saddam but only the oil. Look at Iraq now, what will become of it, another Afghanistan? People are burning banks, historic landmarks, looting hospitals and everything in between and the US is only keeping the oil safe, they want it all to them now. This is truly sad, not for only the Iraqi people, not for only the Arab people but for Muslims. Iraq is the city of Al-Rashid and now look what they are doing do the famous universities, and everything else. These people are out of control and this is exactly what the US wanted all along another Afghanistan, Muslims fighting each other and turning the nation into a huge trash can, this is truly sad. And for all those people who don't think its nothing, b/c they are not Iraqi, they are not Arab, think again, Yesterday Afghanistan, today Iraq tomorrow only Allah (swt) knows what will bring. This world is out of control and they US is playing GOD.

The US could be in violation for not ensuring there is law and order.. something I recently learnt was part of the Geneva convention.. something on the lines of .. the victor or occupier or invader whatever you might wanna call it, must ensure that law and order is maintained or hospitals aren't attacked.

But Majestic.. tell me one thing.. are these looters Americans???

Surely you should realize it's our Arab-Muslim brethern who are taught not to loot, steal what's not theirs as a part of their religion..

so the Arab-Muslim goes on a rampage to devastate another Muslim's property and the blame lies with the US of A??

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
The US could be in violation for not ensuring there is law and order.. something I recently learnt was part of the Geneva convention.. something on the lines of .. the victor or occupier or invader whatever you might wanna call it, must ensure that law and order is maintained or hospitals aren't attacked.

But Majestic.. tell me one thing.. are these looters Americans???

Surely you should realize it's our Arab-Muslim brethern who are taught not to loot, steal what's not theirs as a part of their religion..

so the Arab-Muslim goes on a rampage to devastate another Muslim's property and the blame lies with the US of A??
[/QUOTE]

well was there any looting b4 the war? :-)
now there is because US of A is there :-)

Were there any morals and a sense of right and wrong before the war?

yeah who is asking or forcing the looters to go and loot? The looters are enjoying anarchy..similar scenes have been seen at other places during rioting etc..even London back in the 80's. Los Angeles in the 90's etc.

I agree coalition forces should try to maintain law and order, which i guess will improve with the night time curfew..but once again looters did what they did by their own will.

Now people have to deal with curfews because of teh actions of these losers looters

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Were there any morals and a sense of right and wrong before the war?
[/QUOTE]

maybe not BUT THEN AGAIN there was NO LOOTING before the WAR :-)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
The US could be in violation for not ensuring there is law and order.. something I recently learnt was part of the Geneva convention.. something on the lines of .. the victor or occupier or invader whatever you might wanna call it, must ensure that law and order is maintained or hospitals aren't attacked.

But Majestic.. tell me one thing.. are these looters Americans???

Surely you should realize it's our Arab-Muslim brethern who are taught not to loot, steal what's not theirs as a part of their religion..

so the Arab-Muslim goes on a rampage to devastate another Muslim's property and the blame lies with the US of A??
[/QUOTE]

I understand they are not Americans, but why is this state upon us now, why has it come to this point? It was the US who started this mess and it will not clean it up, this is a HUGE mess, and there is no one to blame but the US, they wanted this all along.

These Arabs/Muslim do not no any better, b/c if they did they know that this is what the US wants all along, to stir up troubel, look at what happen to Afghanistan, do we really need another one of our nations, in this type of mess. Afghanistan a great nation once at its beauty and now Iraq the craddel of civilization? We really do not need this, not now, not with all that we are facing today.

I just honestly can say that I do not know where this will lead, but I know its not looking good at all.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by EntityParadigm: *

maybe not BUT THEN AGAIN there was NO LOOTING before the WAR :-)
[/QUOTE]

yea it's a shame Saddam couldn't sick around.

So the 'liberatered' now become 'looteraters'.

What next?

Baghdad descends into chaos, Rageh Omaar, BC, 11 April 2003

The United Nations says the American forces have a duty under the Geneva Conventions to protect hospitals after a gang stole incubators and heart monitors.

The looting that began two days ago on government offices and Baath party official residences is on the verge of getting out of control. The American forces in Baghdad are setting up checkpoints and trying to secure more areas of the city. But there just are not enough of them. There is a real semblance of disorder in the city. Hospitals need to protect their patients with guns. A place meant for saving lives has been turned into a war zone.

Iraq’s post-Saddam era has begun, but it looks like a world turned upside down. State institutions are set ablaze, there is wholesale looting. This is a picture of a city descending into chaos.

It has left ordinary Iraqis angry and disillusioned. What makes them bitter is that this is taking place under the nose of the most powerful military force of the world. One woman said to me that the Americans said they were coming to liberate, and all she can see is fire. “Where are the Americans now?” she asks.

At one point during the day we crossed a bridge where there was an American checkpoint. It was safe. Half an hour later we returned and it was strewn with the wreckage of burnt-out vehicles. The Iraqi capital, one of the most ancient Arab cities, is being reduced to ruin and lawlessness.

The ministry of information where foreign journalists used to have their offices is destroyed. The dead are being buried on hospital grounds. Even the most basic services are not functioning.

The United Nations is not here, there are not enough coalition forces to provide security. UK Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President George W Bush believe that Iraq has at last been liberated. Saddam Hussein has gone but there is little dignity or freedom in what has followed. And the situation looks set to get worse.

The UN has urged America to provide security but the UN itself is not here to provide humanitarian assistance. The American marines and the army are still facing pockets of resistance. They still have military operations on their hands. It will only be when the penny drops in Washington and London that some sort of security structure needs to be put in place that anything happen here.

Without the politicians and diplomats getting into action, there is little the military can do.

How would Bush feel if one of his twin daughters was slowly dying of a bone disorder? Or how would Blair feel if Leo was dying for want of basic medication - the right of every human being ? This is a war crime, it is as simple as that. Terrorism against innocent civilians.

**Son dying as supplies dwindle**, Keith Harrison, BBC, 11 April 2003

She cradles her beloved son, waves swarming flies away for the hundredth time and weeps with every breath he draws.

In three days, the newly-married 25-year-old will be dead. Maybe two.

Medical staff at Basra General Hospital will do little but stand and watch, stripped of the medicines and blood supplies that would save his life.

The man is Nagim Abdoul Nabiy, a young Iraqi architect, who has been at the hospital for four months, arriving just weeks after he was married to Ezra.

He lies in a semi-conscious state viewing the stifling Ward 15 through runny bloodshot eyes.

The bed is propped up by makeshift repairs, the temperature approaches 100 degrees by mid afternoon and the tiger-print sheets are already soaked with sweat. Paint peels off the walls, open windows invite more flies and the floor is littered with dust and debris.

Nagim is suffering from a bone disease described by doctors, who have long since left for the day, as “chronic”. “There is no medication at all,” said ward assistant Ali Haffat. "We have a blood bank, but no blood.

"Since the war started, we have had no power so he’s just getting worse. A specialist came down from Baghdad and diagnosed him. We were keeping him alive with transfusions before, but now there is no blood, no power, no hope.

“He will last another two or three days. It’s very sad, but really, what can we do? We have given him all the analgesic (pain killers) we had, but now…”

Nagim’s father Abdoul Nabiy rose from the bedside where he had clutched his son’s hand and reassured him quietly since we arrived. He wiped away tears, grabbed our interpreter by the arm and told us: "He is my only son. He is a good man, a proud man, an educated man.

“He is a family man with a wife, but not even any children yet. He is too young to die like this.”

He slumped back into his bedside vigil with a shake of his head and a comforting arm from his weeping wife Bahiya Mathood.

…] Back in Ward 15, Nagim Nabiy will not survive to see this new era take shape. His carer, Ali Haffat, shook his head. "We need everything you can give us; water, medicine, food and electricity. “If we don’t get these things soon this will not be a hospital; it will be a morgue.”