logic behind matam?

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Lol

Basit,

I’ll give you one thing. You are one funny individual.

Your very act of reporting such malicious lies is an indication of your beliefs.

We know how righteous a person you are.

Yes, agree with the Quranic statement, 100 %.

And brother, don’t worry about the salvation of the true shias of Imam Ali (as). Their salvation has been guaranteed by the Allah (swt) and his prophet (pbuh).

It would be more prudent if you attempted to correct your own deviant ways. Afterall, without any of Allah’s (swt) chosen intercessors to help you, you will have to work hard on your own

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Ta ta.

22

itch…itch
a1shah
is that your answer to Basit’s post above???

23

Wasir,

When they have sand under neath their shia-belief system, only those kind of replies are seen when logic is thrown at them. And we all know how sand is, little water to the foundations and no matter how strong the castle it just collapses.

“I am not playing with a full deck!”

[This message has been edited by Abdul Basit (edited July 24, 2001).]

24

It might have happened at some places, or among Shias you know. But to say that ALL Shias do for the reasons you mentioned would be a stereotyping which is not permissible in Islam. If one Muslim lies, does it mean ALL MUSLIMS LIE ??? I don’t agree with you here.

We oughta be Changez like, don’t we?

25

You aren’t my brother ! I’m so hurt

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Guys, guys. Patting yourselves amongst your own on lame propanganda is sad.

Posting to you all seems like a futile task, since clear proofs are brushed aside and incorrect belief systems are upheld. Nothing more can be expected of you.

Khair, learn a little from Changez. If I were to mention what actions spoilt sunnis do, you would not be able to tell whether they were muslims or not.

But simple logic tells us that what a few misled people do cannot be extrapolated to a whole nation.

Your arguments on this board have been weak and easily rebuffed. Your posts have been based on hearsay and “personal experience”. These are not methods that can be used to win arguments.

Matam has been done by prophets (pbuh) as testified by the qur’an and authentic hadiths. But how do you explain it to those void of love ?

As long as you have love for the ahl-bait and give them the position they deserve - second only to the holy prophet (pbuh) - then you will have made some ground.

Beyond that, Allah (swt) knows best.

ws

26

This question is for Abdul Basit. Do you have any other site that you use for reference other than that wahabi/salafi site?

27

A1shah,

Why don't you try to answer the points I raised in my replies against this barbaric ritual. But instead you are being a "social-side-effect" and labeling me with something that only Allaah has the knowledge of. Get your act together and reply my posts if you are truthful enough.

Babydoll, I wanted to show you guys the pictures of this horrific act. Besides, wahabi or salafi, as long as they give you references from known shia books so you can research and see the nonsense your self, why question what kind of site is it? You knowing one side of the story is making you confused, well knowing one side of the story doesn't make the whole story. Plus, eye witness encounters, pictures and other references from books to show how savage matam has become and what peoples intentions are when they pour blood out of themselves in streets are enough evidence to prove ones point.

One point I raised was:

Ok, true you guys have love for al-bhyt and all. On the day of matam, why can't you shias be in a mosque(or some darbar of yours) and ask Allaah for forgivness and pray that you will become like those early Muslims steadfast on Islam? Which is more civilized-hitting your self with knives and chains or praying in front of God and asking for forgivness for your sins and praying for unity of Ummah and praying so that you can follow true Islam-the Islam that Imaam Hussain and Imaam Ali followed. No, you guys want to create your own ways to follow Islam and present it to the world as stupid, as barbaric so they will run away from it.

"I am not playing with a full deck!"

[This message has been edited by Abdul Basit (edited July 26, 2001).]

28

[quote]
Originally posted by Abdul Basit:
*Babydoll, I wanted to show you guys the pictures of this horrific act. Besides, wahabi or salafi, as long as they give you references from known shia books so you can research *
[/quote]

If your intention was to find well-known Shia resources(books&hadith) then why haven’t you ever refer to any Shia website?

29

[quote]
Originally posted by Abdul Basit:
**A1shah,

Why don't you try to answer the points I raised in my replies against this barbaric ritual. But instead you are being a "social-side-effect" and labeling me with something that only Allaah has the knowledge of. Get your act together and reply my posts if you are truthful enough.

Babydoll, I wanted to show you guys the pictures of this horrific act. Besides, wahabi or salafi, as long as they give you references from known shia books so you can research and see the nonsense your self, why question what kind of site is it? You knowing one side of the story is making you confused, well knowing one side of the story doesn't make the whole story. Plus, eye witness encounters, pictures and other references from books to show how savage matam has become and what peoples intentions are when they pour blood out of themselves in streets are enough evidence to prove ones point.

One point I raised was:

Ok, true you guys have love for al-bhyt and all. On the day of matam, why can't you shias be in a mosque(or some darbar of yours) and ask Allaah for forgivness and pray that you will become like those early Muslims steadfast on Islam? Which is more civilized-hitting your self with knives and chains or praying in front of God and asking for forgivness for your sins and praying for unity of Ummah and praying so that you can follow true Islam-the Islam that Imaam Hussain and Imaam Ali followed. No, you guys want to create your own ways to follow Islam and present it to the world as stupid, as barbaric so they will run away from it.

**
[/quote]

Abdul Basit, your thoughts are amusing.

You are against matam, and since you cant prove it wrong ISLAMICALLY, you have started babbling about how it effects the image of Islam!!!

I ask you, What is the present image of Islam?????

The image that the wahabhi, saudi leaders portray by having 1000 models lined up infront of their palace?

The image that Taliban portray by killing people for not agreeing with their self-made Islam?

The Image that sipa-e-sahab give by killing innocent shia-sunni muslims in Pskiatn, just because they are not wahabhi!!!!

Today, Islam's image is all ruined my friend.

Now here you are saying that the "IMAGE" is getting worsened because shias do the matam!!!

I dont wish to mud sludge any one or any sect but If you want to see the true shia Islam then dont just make your mind by seeing matam. Go to a majalis and try to analyze the lessons given there. You will see people crying their hearts out for the love of our Prophet and his aal and asking Allah to forgive their sins for the love of our great nabbi.
These majalis are our tarbeyat gaah. Majalis and Azadari is our madrasah. We are taught not to fight with GUNS and BOMBS. But instead we learn the art of fighting with patience. We learn to do a jiah with no bullet, but our character. This indeed is the jihad our nabbi did, and our Imams did.

This is what shia Islam is.

You can keep your Islam and the "Image" of it to yourself.

Good Bye

[This message has been edited by Pagluu (edited July 26, 2001).]

30

Prophet(peace be upon him and his family) has strictly condemned "Matam" over deads
Over the death of Prophet's(peace be upon him) son Qasim Sahabas saw him weeping, so one of the Sahabi asked....O Prophet(peace be upon you) why are you crying while you have stopped us from crying over dead.

Prophet(peace be upon him) replied "You can cry with tears, crying with voice isn't allowed."

And how is that Aayah in Quran where Allah has cursed those women who do Noha and Matam over dead, Allah will make them wear the dress of Qitran(a material like Sulphar which catches fire quickly) and they will be pushed into Hell.

This is all about crying over ....DEADS....
And Shias cry over those who are alive
As Shaheeds are alive, only we can't understand the nature of their life.

31

[quote]
Originally posted by wasir:
.......This is all about crying over ....DEADS....
And Shias cry over those who are alive
As Shaheeds are alive, only we can't understand the nature of their life.
[/quote]

and your point being.........!!!!!!!!

32

My point is.....

Matam isn't allowed

[quote]
Originally posted by Nussairee:
**
and your point being.........!!!!!!!!**
[/quote]

33

Dear brothers and sister

I studied the website provided by one of the guppy. What I can't make up is that in Quran it is said that the body we have is not ours but given to us by Allah and we should use it in the law and rules provided by Quran. Now if it is true then hurting the body would be wrong. I am not questioning the believe of Shiya but trying to understand the logic and real fact of the issue.

People die and we were brought up to believe that we should cry loud infront of mayat. People who loose the loved ones are always kept in company so that they don't hurt themselves.

Please bring bit more evidence of "beating concept" from Quran as I am interested to find out the trust.

[This message has been edited by mbmagsi (edited July 27, 2001).]