Re: Indian attack on LoC in Bagh repulsed
^ The cited report in DNA clearly says the Brig.Rawal forcefully retaliated to harassment from the Pakistani side. Not clear what the reason for the said harassment was.
Re: Indian attack on LoC in Bagh repulsed
**
Tweet from Talat Hussain:
India's image-conscious media, and rulers, don't know what to do with the collective shame of gang-rape-and-murder of a helpless girl.Now they are turning the guns on Pakistan in a classic case of diversion.Be ready for more poison from Delhi.
Yeah Right.. !!
Hussain sahab, mentos khao aur dimaag ki batti jalao.. !!
I am sure Pakistan has never Witness a case of Rape in the entire History.. !! **
Re: Indian attack on LoC in Bagh repulsed
Tweet from Talat Hussain:
India's image-conscious media, and rulers, don't know what to do with the collective shame of gang-rape-and-murder of a helpless girl.Now they are turning the guns on Pakistan in a classic case of diversion.Be ready for more poison from Delhi.
Who is this joker?
Re: Indian attack on LoC in Bagh repulsed
Aside from all the mumbo jumbo talk and claim by Indians, …
…did or did not India cross the LOC and ran back leaving their weapons as posted here?
Indians are known to break LOC as it is known
Indian attack on LoC in Bagh repulsed - thenews.com.pk
Indian troops violate LoC, raid security checkpost: ISPR | Pakistan | DAWN.COM
Re: Indian attack on LoC in Bagh repulsed
NEW DELHI — The news that two Indian soldiers had been killed by their Pakistani counterparts along a disputed border in the Himalayan region of Kashmir sparked full-blown outrage in the national media here this week, after military officials said one of the bodies had been decapitated and the head taken to Pakistan.
Over menacing music, Indian television news anchors fanned the flames Tuesday, asking: What were India’s options for punishing Pakistan? Was there any point in continuing the peace process — or even playing cricket against the Pakistani team?
With details of the incident released just in time for the evening news, the story dominated prime-time talk shows as retired Indian generals lined up to take potshots at their old foe. The Indian government spoke of the “barbaric and inhuman mutilation” of the corpses and denounced the “ghastly” and “dastardly” act.
But the full story of the recent violence in the disputed region may be at once more complex and less one-sided.
For a start, both sides’ armies may have beheaded enemy corpses in tit-for-tat exchanges last year, according to a report in the newspaper the Hindu by respected journalist and editor Praveen Swami, who cited senior military and government officials as sources.
Tuesday’s attack by Pakistani troops also appears to have come in retaliation for an attack by Indian troops a few days earlier, in which one Pakistani soldier was killed, a senior Indian security official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to talk to the media.
Indeed, the Hindu said, the tension along this stretch of the border began in September, when a Kashmiri grandmother sneaked across to join her sons, who were living on the Pakistani side.
Indian troops, concerned about the ease with which she seemed to have crossed, started building bunkers around her village to keep a closer eye on residents. Pakistan viewed such a move so close to the frontier as a violation of a cease-fire agreement and tried to halt it by shelling and firing on the area. In October, three villagers were killed by Pakistani shelling, and on Jan. 6, an Indian brigadier general ordered raids on the Pakistani positions, the Hindu report said.
In a statement Thursday, the Indian army said “certain aspects” of the report were incorrect, specifically denying that its troops had crossed the border, known as the Line of Control, on Jan. 6. The army said it had instead carried out “controlled retaliation” for Pakistani cease-fire violations. It also said that the grandmother crossed the border in September 2011 and denied any link between that and recent events.
Amid the outrage, some journalists on both sides of the border took to Twitter on Thursday to ask whether the Indian media had taken things too far.
The Twitter user @Smita_
Sharma wrote, “Jingoism Never Won a War, Nor Served Peace. #justsaying.” She also tweeted, “It’s worrisome & dangerous when Journos are expected to be Nationalists first. Questioning Deep State shouldn’t be branded as anti-national.”
Another Twitter user, @omar_quraishi, wrote, “India initiated the LoC violations, to which Pak may have responded — however one needs to read the commentary in both country’s media.” He also tweeted, “In one there is muted coverage, in the other there is rally to war — as if the next logical step is a full blown battle.”
Pakistani Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar told the Associated Press on Thursday that she was “unpleasantly surprised” by India’s accusations, but she tried to allay fears of an escalation.
Pakistan’s government and its people “have demonstrated a deep and abiding commitment to normalize and improve relations with India and to really start a journey of trust-
building,” she said, according to AP.
State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said the United States was urging India and Pakistan to “de-escalate” after the recent clashes and continue high-level consultations to work through their differences.
“Violence is not the answer for either country,” Nuland said in Washington on Wednesday, AP reported.
India’s frustration with Pakistan is understandable. There is no dispute in global diplomatic and intelligence circles that Pakistan has been sending militants across the border for many years to join an anti-India insurgency in Kashmir. India also says that cross-border infiltrations picked up again last year after a lull.
The wounds of the 2008 Mumbai attacks, in which gunmen from Pakistan killed 166 people during a three-day siege, also remain fresh.
India summoned the Pakistani ambassador Wednesday to lodge a “strong protest” about the border incident, but Indian Foreign Minister Salman Khurshid said at a news conference that it was important to prevent tensions from heightening.
On Thursday, however, a Pakistani army spokesman said Indian troops had killed another Pakistani soldier in “unprovoked” fire, Reuters news agency reported.
Re: LOC skirmishes
**Blame Game would never end..
Never would it be proved who started it..
All that can be seen is who was more Cruel in their attack..
Fighting the Soldiers is one thing.. Respecting the dead is another.
G'day**
Re: LOC skirmishes
**Blame Game would never end.. Never would it be proved who started it..
All that can be seen is who was more Cruel in their attack.. Fighting the Soldiers is one thing.. Respecting the dead is another.
G'day**
According to the NYT report, both countries have been doing the same during the past one year and this skirmish started after Indians killed one Pakistani soldier.
Re: LOC skirmishes
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According to the NYT report, both countries have been doing the same during the past one year and this skirmish started after Indians killed one Pakistani soldier.
Agreed.
Neither you, nor me can provide any proof of who initiated it. As a matter of fact, your media would blame India and our media would blame you.
As I said before, we just need to look at who Fights like a Soldier and who like a Terrorist.
It is a courtesy to Respect the Dead, brother.**
Re: LOC skirmishes
**
Agreed. Neither you, nor me can provide any proof of who initiated it. As a matter of fact, your media would blame India and our media would blame you.
As I said before, we just need to look at who Fights like a Soldier and who like a Terrorist. It is a courtesy to Respect the Dead, brother.**
Tit for tat, Indian soldiers have been beheading Pakistanis as well.
[QUOTE]
But the full story of the recent violence in the disputed region may be at once more complex and less one-sided.
*For a start, both sides’ armies may have beheaded enemy corpses in tit-for-tat exchanges last year, according to a report in the newspaper the Hindu by respected journalist and editor Praveen Swami, who cited senior military and government officials as sources.
*
Tuesday’s attack by Pakistani troops also appears to have come in retaliation for an attack by Indian troops a few days earlier, in which one Pakistani soldier was killed, a senior Indian security official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to talk to the media.
[/QUOTE]
Re: LOC skirmishes
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Agreed. Neither you, nor me can provide any proof of who initiated it. As a matter of fact, your media would blame India and our media would blame you.
As I said before, we just need to look at who Fights like a Soldier and who like a Terrorist. It is a courtesy to Respect the Dead, brother.**
*It is the Indian saying that the dead was mutilated, any proof?? Just like who initiated cannot be proven, according to you, neither can it be proven how anyone died in the battlefield. So yes respect shoudl be given to the dead but more importantly the skirmishes should not have taken palce in the first instance. *
Re: LOC skirmishes
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It is the Indian saying that the dead was mutilated, any proof?? Just like who initiated cannot be proven, according to you, neither can it be proven how anyone died in the battlefield. So yes respect shoudl be given to the dead but more importantly the skirmishes should not have taken palce in the first instance.
Well,
Their bodies are there to be seen.
I really don't wanna get into the blame game as it never leads anywhere.. Lets just say whatever happened was unfortunate and could have been avoided.
G'day**
Re: LOC skirmishes
Anna Hazare calls for waging war against Pakistan. He had earlier accepted an invitation to visit Pakistan.
Re: LOC skirmishes
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Anna Hazare probably has some problem with his brains..
He keeps making ridiculous statements that have no value. I do not see how “Waging a War” would be an answer to anything.**
Re: LOC skirmishes
indian media.... errr, they are promoting more hatred and saying stuff like hum sabaq sekha deinge... etc... Pakistan asked for UN inquiry into this, why did they refused?
2 Pakistani soldiers embraced shahadat in unprovoked attack by Indian troops, but Indian media totally ignores this news and make it look like its Pakistan who has violated all the rules and they have done no wrong.
Re: LOC skirmishes
indian media.... errr, they are promoting more hatred and saying stuff like hum sabaq sekha deinge... etc... Pakistan asked for UN inquiry into this, why did they refused?
2 Pakistani soldiers embraced shahadat in unprovoked attack by Indian troops, but Indian media totally ignores this news and make it look like its Pakistan who has violated all the rules and they have done no wrong.
For a long time the difference between Pakistani and Indian media has been quite the opposite. Even now Pakistani media has ignored the issue, but Indians are creating a hype around it.
Re: LOC skirmishes
The Hindu : News / National : Runaway grandmother sparked savage skirmish on LoC
Indian bunker construction on the northern reaches of the Line of Control — initiated after a grandmother crossed into Pakistan-administered Kashmir to be with her sons — sparked off a spiral of violence which culminated in the brutal killing of two soldiers in an ambush earlier this week, highly placed military and government sources have told The Hindu.
The clashes, among the worst on the Line of Control since a ceasefire went into place, have provoked fears that the ceasefire may melt down. In India, news that the two soldiers were beheaded has provoked widespread outrage and calls for large-scale military retaliation.
Read: LoC firing — Defence Ministry ‘clarifies’, The Hindu responds
Innocuous origins
However, the officials who spoke to The Hindu had a very different account — of how a relatively innocuous incident spiralled into a series of murderous clashes, before culminating in the killing of Lance-Naik Sudhakar Singh and Lance-Naik Hemraj. Both armies, the officials said, engaged in aggressive action, driven by the still-fraught situation on the Line of Control.
Early in September, 70-year old Reshma Bi, left the village of Charonda, near Uri, to live with her sons and grandchildren across the Line of Control.
Ms. Reshma and her husband Ibrahim Lohar, a highly-placed military source said, had remained in Charonda after their sons crossed into Pakistan-administered Kashmir several years ago, to escape police investigations of their alleged role in cross-border trafficking. Police officers contacted by The Hindu said that Ms. Reshma appeared to have left in the hope of living out her last years with her family.
Ms. Reshma’s September 11 flight, a senior Srinagar-based military official said, set off alarms at the Uri-headquartered 19 infantry brigade. There, the incident was seen as highlighting vulnerabilities in defences along this stretch of the Line of Control. Charonda is located within metres of the Line of Control, outside of the three-layer counter-infiltration fencing which runs along the frontier.
Inside of a week after Ms. Reshma’s departure, troops of the 9 Maratha Light Infantry began constructing observations bunkers around Charonda, seeking to monitor the movement of villagers.
The construction work — barred by the terms of the Line of Control ceasefire which India and Pakistan agreed on in 2003 — provoked furious protests from Pakistani troops. Indian commanders, the military source said, conceded that the construction was in violation of the ceasefire.
However, they refused to stop work, arguing that the posts faced out towards the village, posing no threat to Pakistan. Early in October, the official said, tensions began to escalate. Pakistan even made announcements over a public address system, demanding that Indian troops end the construction work.
Following the announcement, shells followed. Pakistani troops fired mortar and high-calibre automatic weapons at Indian forward positions. The fire missed its intended target, but killed three villagers, 25-year-old Mohammad Shafi Khatana, 20-year-old Shaheena Bano, and a ninth-grade school student, Liaqat Ali. In the weeks leading up to the New Year, military sources said, hardly a week went by without occasional shots being fired at troops headed to the new observation posts.
Finally, on January 6, matters came to a head. Following a low-grade exchange of fire that night, 19 Infantry Division commander Gulab Singh Rawat sought and obtained permission for aggressive action against the Pakistani position from where his troops were being targeted.
Pakistan insists its post, Sawan Patra, was raided by Indian troops. India has denied the allegation. “None of our troops crossed the Line of Control,” said Jagdish Dahiya, an Indian army spokesperson.
Either way, though, a Pakistani soldier was dead before the shooting ended — and another critically injured.
“Let’s just put it this way,” a senior government official in New Delhi said, “there was no formal permission to stage a cross-border raid to target Sawan Patra. However, in the heat of fighting, these things have been known to happen. Pakistan has done this, and our forces have done this, ever since fighting began in Jammu and Kashmir in 1990.”
Pakistani retaliation
Pakistan chose to retaliate against the Indian action in one of the few sectors on the Line of Control where its troops have a relative tactical advantage. Fighting has been underway in the Krishna Ghati sector, on the southern end of the Haji Pir pass, since June. The skirmishes there had earlier claimed the life of Border Security Force constable P.K. Mishra and Indian Army soldier Harvinder Singh. The fighting in the summer also began with disputes over the construction of new border outposts by India.
Few details have emerged on the attack, but government sources in New Delhi said a Pakistani Border Action Team — assault units that in the past have been reported to consist of both jihadists and members of the élite Special Services Group — are believed to have carried out the attack.
“It is almost certainly a retaliation for what happened in Charonda”, a military official in New Delhi said. “This kind of thing has often happened in the past, though it hasn’t got quite so much media attention.”
Last year, for example, there was fierce fighting Karnah, some 140 kilometres from Srinagar after two Indian soldiers were beheaded in an attack on a forward position by a Border Action Team. Indian special forces responded by targeting a Pakistani forward post, killing several soldiers and, by the account of one military official, which The Hindu could not corroborate independently, beheaded two.
Earlier, in July, 2008, four Pakistani troops and an Indian solider were killed in fighting near Handwara, again because of disputes over the construction of new fortifications around an Indian position, code named Eagle Post. BSF constable Bhanwar Lal was killed in a separate clash along the LoC in Rajouri, while 8 Gurkha Rifles’ Jawashwar Lami Chhame died when jihadists backed by Pakistani troops shelled an Indian forward post in Poonch.
In some cases, fighting and bonhomie have gone hand in hand in different stretches of the LoC. In September 2009, Pakistani military commanders gave their Indian counterparts packets and sweets on the occasion of Eid, even as their soldiers were exchanging fire along the Krishna Ghati sector, as well as on Pargwal island, near Nikowal in Jammu.
Re: LOC skirmishes
It seems that Indian media is full of idiots. Even more so than Pakistan. I remember they started blaming pakistan, without any proof, while the bombay attacks were underway.
'hum sabaq sikha dainge' and 'waging war' kinda BS isn't going to fly. Both sides have nukes and a full war ain't happening much to the dislike of zaid hamid and his equally (maybe even more) retarded brothers on the other side.
Re: LOC skirmishes
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It seems that Indian media is full of idiots. Even more so than Pakistan. I remember they started blaming pakistan, without any proof, while the bombay attacks were underway.
'hum sabaq sikha dainge' and 'waging war' kinda BS isn't going to fly. Both sides have nukes and a full war ain't happening much to the dislike of zaid hamid and his equally (maybe even more) retarded brothers on the other side.
(1) Bombay attacks were planned and executed through Pakistan. (Let us not bring such sensitive issues in discussion when not really required)
(2) Having Nuke is not enough, the capacity also matters.
(3) War is NOT going to happen, rest assured. Both the Indian and Pakistani extremist leaders can cry as much as they want.
Let us not point fingers at each other and start accepting our faults.. That would be the FIRST step towards peace.
G'day
**
Re: LOC skirmishes
Right. On that note, could you point out some faults that your country has owned up to?
Here I am pointing out the hyper nationalism that is flared up on both sides (although more so on the indian side) and you come along defending the performance of the indian media on the day of the bombay attacks (with the assertion that the attacks were planned and executed by Pakistan) followed by a little sermon on owning up our faults. Even if the attacks were planned and carried out by Pakistan, how did your media find that out withing minutes of the start of the attacks, while they were still in progress. You obviously want Pakistan to own up to its faults but not India. If that is the case, spare us the sermons.
I get irritated by hyper nationalist pakistanis and even more so with hyper nationalist indians who seem to be here just to flame.
Re: LOC skirmishes
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Right. On that note, could you point out some faults that your country has owned up to?
Here I am pointing out the hyper nationalism that is flared up on both sides (although more so on the indian side) and you come along defending the performance of the indian media on the day of the bombay attacks (with the assertion that the attacks were planned and executed by Pakistan) followed by a little sermon on owning up our faults. Even if the attacks were planned and carried out by Pakistan, how did your media find that out withing minutes of the start of the attacks, while they were still in progress. You obviously want Pakistan to own up to its faults but not India. If that is the case, spare us the sermons.
I get irritated by hyper nationalist pakistanis and even more so with hyper nationalist indians who seem to be here just to flame.
In that case, I suggest you should not get irritated and have a Discussion with the concerned person before you start Judging. (Although, I do not get why would anyone judge the other person at all)
To begin with, I would answer your first question.
I never Said India has owned up to any faults. If you read my statement again, I "suggested" that "we" must start looking at our faults and not points fingers. I meant both Countries and I do not see how you saw that as me questioning Pakistan.
Now, if you read your response again and compare it with mine, you'd find yourself to be far more aggressively against India and anything related to Indians.
You get irritated with hyper nationalist Indians, I understand. But, that is your problem buddy.. You need to work on it. It does not justify you going "Tera-Mera" just because you think someone is here to Flame. I mean, you think you have the right to Judge people. That is not the case brother. As a matter of fact you know nothing about me or my intentions. So, let it be.
All I can say here is that WE must rather try and take care of our words instead of worrying our heads over what the other person "might have meant" .. Sometimes it helps to NOT think of the other person as an Enemy. Try that.
If you followed the Media that day, you would have known that the reason they gave was that they inquired about them from whatever sources. We could have questioned them if it would have been false. But, it turned out just right.
Lets keep a cool head, shall we.. There is no war going around here.
G'day**