Load shedding can destroy us

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Alhamdulilallah. God Bless the PPP govt and Great Zardari, the President of Pakistan for the directive to PEPCO for making load management a top priority.

News

No more unannounced load-shedding from tonight: PEPCO

ISLAMABAD: Spokesman of Pakistan Electric Power Company (PEPCO) Saturday said there will be no more unannounced power load-shedding across the country from tonight. Tahir Bisharat, spokesman PEPCO, said the company has made load management its top priority on the directives of President Asif Ali Zardari. He said improvement in power supply network has brought reduction of 1,000 MW in the total shortfall of electricity being faced by the country.

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We finish electricity so electricity will finish us. We finish electricity by stealing it and not paying our bills, resulting in nation overall paying the price.

Don't blame military rulers only for the lack of planning, what did Benazir, Nawaz Sharif governments do in 90s except for pulling each others legs? I am no Musharraf fan but he did start few power plant projects some are producing power while some will start in few years. What we can blame all governments is that no one invested in upgrading power transmission lines, transformers, (power grid), recovery of bills, stop power theft etc.

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Re: Electric it can finish us

benazir, NS had chunks of 2 years in power each time, whereas the senile musharraf had 8-9 whole uninterrupted years where he didnt have to worry about opposition or legitimacy. He screwed up, and was more interested in retaining his kursi than thinking about the betterment of the country.

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They had musical chair for 2 years for a reason: They started pulling legs of opposition/persecution. They didn't focus on infrastructure, the only structure they were interested in was their personal bank accounts :D. I dislike Musharraf for what he did in his 8.5 years with the nation but our focus in this thread is about "power generation".

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And what was Musharaf doing? He was busy pulling the legs of the media, civil society, politicians, judiciary, in short anyone who dared speak against him.

[quote]

They didn't focus on infrastructure, the only structure they were interested in was their personal bank accounts :D. I dislike Musharraf for what he did in his 8.5 years with the nation but our focus in this thread is about "power generation".
[/quote]

Power Generation, like many other things was another one of Musharraf's shortcomings. There was nothing added in the last 9 years especially when the country was posting a higher growth rate.

Lets Play Hangman!!!
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Where is Sa1eem when you need him!?

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Re: Electric it can finish us

60,000 paras of nothingness wont save you bro.

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Can you please elaborate further? How much area is required and how much 'watts' will be produced? Is there any 'commercial' solution (complete from solar panels to circuits to battery to invertor) available?

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The article asks an interesting question. Yf the loadshedding, which must have been caused by a significant gap between demand and supply, can be ended (in the case of gas) or halved (in the case of electricity) simply by a directive from a top government functionary, then why has it taken so long?

Loadshedding ‘solutions’

**Loadshedding ‘solutions’

**Statement by the president and then by the minister for water and power over the very pressing issues of gas and electricity loadshedding may augur some hope for the millions affected. However, they also raise the question that if the loadshedding, which must have been caused by a significant gap between demand and supply, can be ended (in the case of gas) or halved (in the case of electricity) simply by a directive from a top government functionary, then was it - the loadshedding, that is - partially engineered or caused by inefficiency and mismanagement. Since the last option is perhaps the likeliest, that brings the other question that why should the government have waited this long, and for the general public - Faisalabad and Lahore - to literally riot before taking substantive measures.

Given that this government has been office for almost nine months now, it will be difficult and disingenuous for it to keep on blaming the Musharraf regime for the energy problems of today. The measures announced on Jan 1 and 3 with regard to both gas and electricity loadshedding may be more short-term in nature and what is needed drastically is a strategy or some kind of plan that quickly addresses the issue of power generation capacity. While Pakistan may not be an economy on the scale of China, readers will be astonished to note that last year alone, China is estimated to have increased its power generating capacity by almost 100,000 MW. India lagged far behind but even it increased its power generation capacity last year by 6,000-7,000 MW. Compare this to Pakistan which in the last nine years has seen a negligible rise in its power generation capacity - which almost borders on the criminal given that policymakers must have known that the energy demands of a growing economy such as Pakistan’s would need a substantial increase in its power generating capacity.

The situation is presently so acute - apparently due to a mixture of reasons that beyond the control of the power utilities and some that are very much of their own making — that one could be forgiven for thinking that people resident in this country in this day and age are perhaps reliving the Dark Ages. Most major cities are experiencing loadshedding of as much as 12 hours a day and the rural areas have no power for around 18 hours a day. Other than the stop-gap measures and the very important matter of increasing power generation capacity, the government also needs to sort out the issue of circular debt which has been hampering the financial performance of most power distribution companies. KESC for instance claims that the debt owed to it by various government departments and organizations runs into the billions and effectively hampers its from purchasing gas in the amount that it would require to make full use of the capacity of its power generating stations. This has been an issue unresolved for almost a decade and should be addressed on an urgent basis by the ministry of water and power and finance.

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I'll come back to ur query in 2-3 days with a detail projection and plant costs and where to get the Parts (or the whole Solution).

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Re: Electric it can finish us

Zero bhai ... Anytime soon?

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Re: Electric it can finish us

while the rulers are at fault, so are the people. in any other place the private sector would step up and provide alternatives, but the way electricity is abused in pakistan is unbelievable.

if you use electricity conservatively, use perhaps one AC and a fridge etc, the bill still is somewhere around 3-4k, much more if you dont conserve. most people now have these devices that slow down the meter. One of my relatives, has a huge house, approximately 10-12 people. one month they got a bill of Rs 130. So they got all worried that we'll get caught and we have to do something. So now their strategy is to constantly keep the lights on in all parts of the house, keep the ACs running etc, in a bid to drive up their electricity bill. Last month their bill was around 400. We were told this by them when we went around closing lights in empty rooms, that this is deliberate. I heard of a similar case from a friend, who were caught by the police and fined 50k rupees... but its happening at such a large scale, how can you even blame law enforcement or the power company for it.

this ofcourse doesnt diminish the failure of the rulers over the past 15 years to do anything.. all you hear about is Kalabagh dam since the mid 90s. but the need is so dire that power plants would be profitable even offering electricity at premium rates. if the people didnt steal it all.

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Re: Electric it can finish us

So after a big delay i come back to answer the querry by Ehtsab ji. I'm deeply sorry for the big delay.

Since i spoke of a Standalone system for Rs. 3.5 - 4.0 lakh

For the model house i counted for following power consuming appliances.

6 Standard Size Tubelights 1.2m at 30W each (5 Hours each)
1 Refridgerator 70W (14 Hours)
4 Ceiling/Pedastel Fans at 40W Each (16 Hours each)
1 TV/receiver Combo 200W (7 Hours)

That makes a Grandtotal of 5840Wh or 5.84kWh which is need for the above mentioned Set-up.

The average Solar Radiation in Pakistan is 5.8 kwh/m2/day or approx. 2100-2300 kWh/m2 per year (i'll take 5.3 kWh/m2/day to be on the safe side)

Now the Info about the components.

  • Solar Panels or Photovoltaic Panels
  • Charge Controller
  • Battery bank (Similar to Auto-Batteries)
  • DC -> AC Converter (As Solar Power is produces as DC current and needs to converted into AC Current so u can use normal household appliances)

For a Set-up that needs 5.84kWh/day and we've 5.3kWh/m2/day solar Radiation multiplied with a efficency factor of 0.9 (for the Battery Bank) the simple result is 1.224kW Peak.

5.84kWh/day divided by 5.3kWh/m2/day = 1.101 divided by 0.9 = 1.224 kW Peak of Solar Panels

W Peak = Wp

The Prices in Germany r quite high = 1 Wp/3 Euros and beyond

Although if u buy in China the same products (many German companies have relocated their production there) the price of 1Wp= US$ 2.4

Which means the price for 1.224kWp = almost US$2938

The price for good Quality Charge Controller with Built-in DC->AC Converter ranges between US$650 - US$900 (I take US$800)

We r now at US$3738

Now the Battery Bank. For the 5.84kWh at 230V we need battery capacity of at least 25.39 Ah
5.84kWh divided by 230V = 25.39Ah
I put in 1 autonomy Day (means for if for 1 Whole Day the Solar Panels don't work for some reason we take double battery capacity) = means 50.78Ah

To be Honest i don't know the prices in Pakistan or China or any Country for that matter. If i take the German market prices then 50.78 Ah at 230V will cost around US$900. I think they r cheaper in Pakistan and it makes absolute no sense to pay the high shipping charges for such heavy batteries in case u decide to buy them in the US or Europe to be used in Pakistan.

So all in all we stand at US$4638 for the hardware. Regarding the wiring only little changes needed to be made which won't fall that much into account.

US$4638 = Rs. 366402 at current exchange rate

In the coming few days Insha'Allah i'll post links weher u can buy such equipment at the prices i mentioned.

BTW u don't need to be an engineer to set-up such a system. If u r half decent electrician this should be managable. Only the positioning of the Solar Panels is a delicate matter so a Guy who is into Satellite Dish Buisness can help along.

Feel free to correct me at any stage i'm more than happy and willing to learn :)

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Re: Electric it can finish us

Thank you Zero_One bhai :k:

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Re: Electric it can finish us

as soon as they privatize it (instead of having the gov't control electricity, have a private company do it) all problems will be solved

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KESC is privatized but Karachi is still suffering from the loadshedding! Reason being govt still not paying its bill to KESC for putting up its power on the grid, so if KESC is not getting paid they are unable to produce sufficient power to meet the demands. Essentially govt has killed the benefits of privatization itself.

Timepass- December 2012
Timepass- December 2012
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Re: Electric it can finish us

Zero_one, can you please post links for solar panel prices? (for Pakistan).

For US market, I found different solar panels but they run like 1Wp/US$4.4-5.5

Thanks

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Re: Electric it can finish us

There should be a combind effort for solar + wind
I am sure if some areas allcated for this purpose completely duty and tax free and with state sovereign gaurentee of no beurocratic interference.Our people can solve this problem for ever

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Well as i posted above and mentioned China as the sole market where it’s available at low prices such as 2.4$/2.6$ per Wp.

Look here

Solar system (2000W) ZDNY-SS2000 solar system CN;ZHE products

Hope it helps. feel free to contact me if u need any further help. (Maybe i can find the supplier of some German companies producing in china)

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Re: Electric it can finish us

^ Thanks Zero! I did check on alibaba.com earlier too, I found many solar panels selling for Fob=US$2-2.4, I don't know what this "Fob" means here, does it mean 'from origination'? Even for that I believe that is dirt cheap compared to the solar panels being sold online in US.

What' ll u throw on the person above u