Living/working in KSA

Dear Guppies,

I was wondering whether someone could help me out with some information regarding moving to KSA. A friend of mine is considering to move, but is still not sure about which decision to take. Here are a few questions I’d like to ask on behalf of him. I hope you guys could help me/us out, especially the guppies who are staying/living in KSA. Thank you in advance.

  1. The education system, what are the differences with Pakistan? There must be an availability of english mediums for children, if yes till which grade? And if no, how do those children who don’t know Arabic get their education?

  2. My friend recently got his MBA degree; what are the possibilities of finding a suitable job there as well as the average/minimum income? How much is enough to take care of a family of 4 people? The prices of houses, is it easier to buy or to rent a house?

  3. Women rights; Are women allowed to work and if yes, are there any restrictions? This is a general question, consider I’m talking about women in general e.g. from all over the world. Is there any positive/negative discrimination towards foreign women in KSA?

Anything else what could be useful to know is most welcome! :slight_smile:

Re: Living/working in KSA

Well I used to live in KSA some 7-8 years back. Where are you moving from ?
As for your questions :
1- Depends on the city you are moving to. There is a Pakistani school controlled by our embassy. Its of mediocre standard. There are better schools available. Your kids don't need to know arabic to get education there. and You can get education till 10th grade or till FSc max.
2-For a family of four, the minimum income should be about 5000 Riyals atleast. If your friend has got a degree from somewhere in US/UK/Canada, his chances are good but otherwise there is so much cheap labour available that the salary rates have come down in the last 2 decades.
3-There is a negative discrimination against all the women. They can't work. They can't drive. And all of them have to wear 'abaya/burqa'. And besides, there is no working environment available for women.

Re: Living/working in KSA

I am living in KSA.. was born and raised here ....i'll try to answer your questions.

*1. The education system, what are the differences with Pakistan? There must be an availability of english mediums for children, if yes till which grade? And if no, how do those children who don't know Arabic get their education? *

Loads of schools have popped up in recent years, some offering the american cirriculum and some the british. If your friend wants, he can send his children to the Pakisani Embassy School (urdu or english section).. the standard is probably the same as the schools in pakistan.

There are also two very well known prep schools, run by the british/dutch embassies, called Jeddah Prep and Continental... they have branches in Jeddah and Riyadh.. excellent standard of education.

*2. My friend recently got his MBA degree; what are the possibilities of finding a suitable job there as well as the average/minimum income? How much is enough to take care of a family of 4 people? The prices of houses, is it easier to buy or to rent a house?*

It really depends on where your friend got his degree from.. a well known Uni in Pakistan (LUMS or IBA), some other lesser known paki Uni or from abroad. If he is coming from a western country and has a western degree, he will have no problem finding a high paying job with lots of bonus'. Same applies to him having studied at LUMS or IBA. I also like to believe that luck has somethign to do with it... not like everyone sitting at a good post is a citizen of a western country or has studied at a reputable Uni...

Being an expat, he will not be allowed to buy property...some companies like to keep their employees in compounds (a number of villas or apartments within a boundary wall... with their own mini markets, swiming pools.. recreation facilities etc)... If this isnt the case, he will be given a rental allowance and he can choose to live in any apartment complex that fits his budget.

3. Women rights; Are women allowed to work and if yes, are there any restrictions? This is a general question, consider I'm talking about women in general e.g. from all over the world. Is there any positive/negative discrimination towards foreign women in KSA?

I dont like what sac said because it isnt true. You have to understand that whatever you hear in the news is about arab women and most of the time, problems they talk bout are not related to law of KSA, but problems with family members not allowing them to do things cuz of family honour.

the only part that is true is that women are not allowed to drive. If your friend ends up living in a compound, his wife will have no trouble getting around the city as they have their own buses and taxis which are absolutely safe... which women use to go do shopping, or work. If he doesnt live in a compound, he will havta get a driver.
I have been working for the past 2 years and have never ever been harassed by anyone... hell i was raised here and no one has ever said anything racist to me. So yes, women are indeed allowed to work. As for finding work, depends on what she wants to do.. cuz there may be limitations there, though not definate.

as for abaya .. yes.. all women do havta wear it when OUTSIDE.. once inside.. they can take it off.. yes even with men around them... as long as they are covered.. arm showing is allowed though )... i must say.. it depends on where ure friend moves.. Riyadh isnt as liberal as Jeddah so she may havta cover completely. ...

if you need to ask anything else.. i'll be happy to answer your questions :)...

if they are moving from a western country.. it may be somewhat of a cultural shock... but i know loads of families that absolutely love it here... something bout getting the best of both worlds (west and east).

:)

Anything else what could be useful to know is most welcome! :-)

Re: Living/working in KSA

^ thanks for that review Khwateen... it certainly dispells some of the exagerrations we hear around us about life in KSA.

Jeddah is a really kewl place to be...

Re: Living/working in KSA

haha Umar.. i dont know bout "kewl".. but its not all that bad either... :)

Re: Living/working in KSA

Living in KSA requires a lot of mental adjustment because it can be a strange place at times, but once you are settled in it can be really enjoyable. I would really recommend going there, the quality of life is great, groceries are cheap, fuel is also really cheap. plus you dont have to pay and taxes on anything and there is virtually negligible crime. However its a bit backward in a few ways and for women life can be quite boring as they arent allowed to drive and are required to have a male relative with them when they go out.

The education is only good in international schools, british and american schools being the best. they are quite expensive but worth the money, however the disadvantage is that there is no education available after high school so most ppl have to go abroad.

As for your friend it is important that he has some sort of prior experience preferably in a MNC in order to get a decent job, job situation is quite bad for expats these days because of saudization and increasing saudi unemployment. A salary of SR 5,000 is quite adequate for a family of four, it also depends on your passport, american,british,candian get the highest pay packages, paki least :teary1: . Renting is only allowed for expats, only saudis can buy property.

Move to jeddah its da bomb!

Re: Living/working in KSA

Why would anyone want to send their kids to an Urdu section of the school? I can understand if someone moves from Chuck #18 where their kids only went to Urdu “Under the green tree” school, but I don’t really see that happening.

Re: Living/working in KSA

The Voice: whilst i agree with everything you have said.. the part bout a woman being accompanied by a male relative all the time when she is out is not true at all... again... its what the arab males prefer... its not the law.

Teen: cuz most desi families living in arabia dont give a rats ass bout their kids education.. thats why.. the common thinking is.. its not what school u go to, its how hard u are willing to try to get good grades no matter what... not many desi kids go to the british or american schools.... although now that loads have popped up (with questionable standards of education).. they HAVE started to send their kids to those schools... but JP and Conti are still the leading schools with excellent standard of education.... with not many desi kids in it.

Re: Living/working in KSA

^^ pakistani schools suck in KSA, doesnt matter whether they are english or urdu section, only the riyad paki school is ok

Re: Living/working in KSA

Well I can imagine that, but those American and British schools cost more than an average Pakistani would make over there. First priority of Pakistanis in Mid East is save money for back home. Yeah those Americans and Brits can send their kids to the best schools because their salaries are usually very high, and I am sure their salary package includes their kids education.

Re: Living/working in KSA

Teen: not really at all like that.. the common mentality is to buy lots of plots in pakiland and safeguard the future... elementary education is nothing and its the final degree that counts... that's the mentality for majority of desis here

yes what u say is true for some desi folks who dont work for good enuff companies nor do they get packages..

but seriously.. most of the time our desi ppl CAN afford to send their kids to the these 2 schools but refuse to do so for the reasons i have stated above... its just not important...

and u'd be surprised how many desi ppl hold high paying jobs with a brilliant package (sometimes more than the goray log)... again.. they choose to buy property back home and invest ... rather than send their kids to the said schools... seen it ... none of the kids in our social cricle went to the schools cept us... could their fathers afford it? SURE hell yes they could. it comes down to priorities i guess...

goray getting paid more than south asians is a myth :)

chalo.. i think i was wrong to say "desis dont give a rats ass bout their kids education" .. i'll add the word "SOME" :)

Re: Living/working in KSA

Thanks for elaborating. I don’t doubt that there are lots of desis in high positions, getting paid really well, even more than gorays. Goras just have a different outlook on life. They know if they lose this job, they will go back and get another one. Our people are always worried about what are they going to do once they go back, and how will they maintain the same life style. Not to mention that most goras would rather have all the fun now than later.

lol, I always love these topics, gora lifestyle vs desi lifestyle.

And to the original poster, does your friend know about the employer holding on to the passport?

Re: Living/working in KSA

well actually the male relative thing isnt a law but if you get stopped by muttawas and they start asking questions then it can be a problem. so its always good to be on the safe side.

Re: Living/working in KSA

becharay muttaway have been reduced to roaming streets of the poorer districts.. almost lost their hold over society… actually.. the most power they have is during ramadan.. that’s it.. i havent seen one in ages… should visit balad soon :cb:

Re: Living/working in KSA

they are now undercover muttawas :cb:

Re: Living/working in KSA

^:cb:.lol…magar waisey who is mutawwa in ur opinion…is it anyone with a beard…

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^^ they are an organised group now, have their own vehicles with logos on the side usually GMCs, most of the time theres also a cop sitting in there too.

Re: Living/working in KSA

oo...u mean "haia el amr bil ma'roof".........they are nice ppl....nothing to be afraid of them...they keep the faltoo key guyz from larkiyon ko pareyshaan kerna.....................*heehee*

Re: Living/working in KSA

well......answer to ur 1st question........
as the ppl above said.......there r good schools private schools here(british/american curriculum)........& yeah...the paki schools all around KSA are horrible......not worth going too..........
& yeah......no proper higher education for foreigners...........except guyz can try for admission in KFUPM............
& well a few universities r accepting foreign students....magar the fees is too much.......umm like abt 60,000 SR per year.....so a person having one kid can afford tht...not a person having more kidz......
& the second question......
it really depends where he got the degree from.......for instance my cousin bro recently got his degree from Dubai.....& @ the same time his friend got his degree from USA.......& his friend is earning 12,000 SR per month.....whereas my cousin is earning 4,000 SR per month.......they say its gonna increase 'cause he started working like 1 month back.......but still the difference is too much.........
so the degree matters a lot...........
& getting job's these days is real hard 'cause of saudization.........
& yeah.....u will have to rent a house........& the rents r quite high these dayz....if u wanna live in a decent neighbourhood.......
n ....well abt women.....the only thing being ke women can't drive here....& they have to wear an abaya while going out.......but abaya should be no prob....u get such cooolll abayaa's here......:)& its soooo wonderful wearing an abayaa.....
& well the plus thing is ke women have to work only for 6 hours & they will get the same pay as a man working on the same job for 8 hours...........
my mom's cousin.....& his wife....both work in the same university...he in the boyz section & she works in the girls section ...but he has to work 8 hours to get the same pay as his wife who works for 6 hours.........its supposed to be some sort of a rule or something......ain't tht coolllll..............
:)
BUT.........if he is in a western country....it might take lot's of time to adjust........this is a pretty reserved place.........
& yeah....there is almost negligible crime here.........
magar one more thing......vacations here r horrible.......nothing except boredom & heat.......


but overall...this is the place to live in........the peace & safety here is such a blessing........
& the life here is quite luxurious..........:)

Re: Living/working in KSA

Thank you guys for your replies, I guess I know enough... I'll copy this thread for my friend. For those who asked, my friend is moving from Pakistan.
I'm loving this thread, I feel like moving to KSA myself :D

Someone here said women are not allowed to go outside if they're not accompanied by a man. This sounds a bit strange to me. I think I'll go with what khawateen said, saudis prefer this, but it's not necessary. It seems so awkward to me that a woman should always have a " bodyguard" with her, even if she goes for grocery shopping.

What concerns the education system, should I assume that very less saudis or foreigners living in KSA have studied till FSc max?