Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

I disagree with this because its not the amount of muslims but the type of muslims that matter. France is swamped with poor immigrant muslims from North Africa who have no education and thus are not integrated into France because never wanted them in the first place. Australia has the same problem when it gave refugee to many Lebanese Arabs during the 1970’s and 80’s during the Lebanese Civil War and Sweden currently has the same problem with Iraqis in its cities.

Canada nor USA has that problem because they have a very good screening method which prevents the garbage from coming in. And when they do give refugee to people like Somalis or Tamils you get increase crime from those communities.

But oh well, I thougth I post this article for you guys to comment on

Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

Barney Zwartz
February 16, 2007
Latest related coverage

LIFE can become untenable when the Muslim population of a non-Muslim country reaches about 10 per cent, as shown by France, a Jewish expert on Islam says.

The Australian Jewish News yesterday quoted Raphael Israeli as saying Australia should cap Muslim immigration or risk being swamped by Indonesians.

Professor Israeli told the Herald that was a misunderstanding. But he said: “When the Muslim population gets to a critical mass you have problems. That is a general rule, so if it applies everywhere it applies in Australia.”

Professor Israeli, an expert on Islamic history from Hebrew University in Jerusalem, has been brought to Australia by the Shalom Institute of the University of NSW. The Australia-Israel Jewish Affairs Council is co-hosting many of his activities.

He said Muslim immigrants had a reputation for manipulating the values of Western countries, taking advantage of their hospitality and tolerance.

“Greeks or Italians or Jews don’t use violence. There is no Italian or Jewish Hilaly [a reference to the controversial cleric Sheik Taj el-Din al Hilaly of Lakemba mosque]. Why?”

Professor Israeli said that when the Muslim population increased, so did the risk of violence.

“Where there are large Muslim populations who are prepared to use violence you are in trouble. If there is only 1 or 2 per cent they don’t dare to do it - they don’t have the backing of big communities. They know they are drowned in the environment of non-Muslims and are better behaved.”

In Australia, Muslims account for about 1.5 per cent of the population.

Professor Israeli said that in France, which has the highest proportion of Muslims in Europe at about 10 per cent, it was already too late. There were regions even the police were scared to enter, and militant Muslims were changing the country’s political, economic and cultural fabric, and demanding anti-Semitic and anti-Israel policies.

"French people say they are strangers in their own country. This is a point of no return.

“If you are on a collision course, what can you do? You can’t put them all in prison, and anyway they are not all violent. You can’t send them all back. You are really in trouble. It’s irreversible.”

Professor Israeli said that in Australia a few imams had preached violence. “You should not let fundamentalist imams come here. Screen them 1000 times before they are admitted, and after they are admitted screen what they say in the mosque.”

He said some Muslims wanted to impose sharia (Islamic law) in their adopted countries, and when propaganda did not work they turned to intimidation.

Professor Israeli said his task was to describe, not prescribe. He also said his warning did not include immigrants, including Muslims, who simply wanted to improve their lot. As long as they respected the law and democracy, their numbers — Buddhist, Muslim or Jew — were immaterial. It became material when a group accepted violence.

“The trains in London and Madrid were not blown up by Christians or Buddhists but by Muslims, so it is them we have to beware,” he said.

Keysar Trad, of the Islamic Friendship Association of Australia, said “Not only religious clerics need to be screened before entering Ausralia but also academics … this type of academic does nothing but create hatred, suspicion and division … We should review not only what the man has said but also those who have sponsored him, to see if they endorse those comments.”

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

In the US, Canada, and UK, Muslims fare better than Hindus and Buddhists in education, high tech jobs and research. Muslims are very peaceful and are inventors, venture capitalists and scientist.. I don't agree with this article at all!

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

^^ Many of them are but if an entire tide of them comes unscreened like what has happened in Australia, Sweden, France then you have problems like the Cronulla Race Riots, the French Riots and Swedish cops abandoing Malmao because its a no go area for Cops due to Arab gangs

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

Do you mean Malmö in Sweden?

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

Any proof??:confused:

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

Raphael Israeli doesnt actually do any research, hes just a scared jew. using his inherited troublecausing skills to negative effect.

im not going to try to dictate what australias immigration policy should be, but i'd like to add that the success of new immigrants can also be linked to how the host nation takes to them. muslims can live happilly with other religions, i think a larger hurdle is the identifying mark of colour. articles such as above are hammer blows to integration efforts as they cause suspicion. not good

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

Moin that is factually incorrect. There is parity in US and canada, although canada seems to be slipping a little due to its lax rules on asylees.

UK on the other hand has had issues with the low class, illiterate ppl brought over to work in factories, them and their offspring have pulled the community down again and again.

merc is right, the type of people that cause problems in pakistan, or Morocco, or Egypt, they cause problems when they go to other countries too. its the fault of these countries for having pathetic immigration processes and greed for cheap labour that they opened the flood gates and got more than they bargained for.

the prof though needs to be a little less bigoted. I agree the problems that exist in france due to unchecked immigration/assylum, and then lack of opportunity and what nots to turn these areas into ghettos, but you bring that wrong people form any country and you will have the same issue.

as far as asking for rights, shiarah system is one thing. But if you reach critical mass in a country that means u look at it as your home, you have roots etc. I mean would it really be an issue if a few years down the road eid is a holiday in schools?

I know that in skokie, Illinois area rosh hashana and yom kippur etc are vacations because there are many kids and teachers who follow judiasm. If muslims ask for the same, would it be wrong? I dont think so.

so we have to

#1 fix the gentleman’s argument about critical mass of muslsm creating problems, because you can spin teh same argument and say in US cities that have large black populations have higher crime rates so, one should keep black population down in cities…can you imagine what types of reactions that would get? and

#2- we have to differentiate between asking for rights in a democratic society just like other groups do versus some sort of non democratic forcible approach to change teh country a la mohajiroun type of lil teeny weeny groups in UK.

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

mr fraudia this is unacceptable.

i know the area and people you are refering to. let me tell you this, the town has always had good educational institutes (inc university) as far back as i can get witness statements. certainly this area will have held its own when compared to the averages of ANY other area in PAKI STAN (not usa/uk) at any given time.
their offsprings are equal to everything the rest of the uk can or do.

this paragraph shows serious short comings that you have in understanding situations and people.

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

ha ha hee hee hoo hooo..:smiley:

:attia: :cb:

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

Moin,

You need to pick your battles. As Fraudia notes, Canada and US Pakistanis are okay but in UK, the situation is totally different.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=963

Education
One in three Muslims have no qualifications

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/images/sourcedepartment/Religion-small.gif

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/images/charts/963.gif

People of working age with no qualifications: by religion, 2004, GB
In 2004 a third (33 per cent) of Muslims of working age in Great Britain had no qualifications – the highest proportion for any religious group. They were also the least likely to have degrees or equivalent qualifications (12 per cent).

After Muslims, Sikhs are the next most likely to have no qualifications (20 per cent). Seventeen per cent of Buddhists and a similar proportion of Christians (15 per cent), Hindus (15 per cent) and people with no religion (14 per cent) had no qualifications. Jews were the least likely to have no qualifications (7 per cent).

Jews, Buddhists and Hindus were more likely than other groups to hold a degree. About four in ten Jews (44 per cent) and three in ten Buddhists (30 per cent) and Hindus (29 per cent) held a degree compared with 22 per cent of people with no religion, 20 per cent of Sikhs and 16 per cent of Christians.

Across all religions, the pattern for men and women of working age is similar but women are generally more likely than men to have no qualifications.

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

I also agree with Fraudia on the type of Pakistanis immigrating to the UK as compared to US and Canada. Most immigrants tend to be less literate people with tribal and biradari mentality and their lack of education is directly responsible for the frustration and joining into groups such as Al Muhajiroon or Hizb-ut-Tehrir. On top of this, we have forced marriages, cousin marriages and honor killing type situations as well. I frankly do not mind limiting the immigration of these type of people, especially immigration through marriage and relatives.

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

Classist rubbish.

Those who immigrated to Canada and the US during the 1970's and even the 1960's were not universally educated, or skilled. The difference between the UK and these two countries was that a) opportunities were provided to immigrants and more importantly their children and b) immigrants were not invited over to perform some singular menial task (textiles, manual labor of whatever sort, etc.).

It's a-okay to bring over a swath of immigrants, but if you take on written and unwritten racist policies (good luck getting hired in any kind of office job in France if you're an Arab), the only thing you can expect is ghettoization.

It's all too easy to blame the immigrant. Many of us in the GTA, or any other major North American city, have parents that fit the bill of what you guys are unthinkingly describing as undesirables.

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

picocio, If what you say is true then all immigrants should be equally affected. Are they?

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

^
How so...what makes you draw that conclusion? Are all uneducated immigrants equally bad, then?

No two persons will have the same experience. As for France...well known investigations by Journalists on the matter do lend heavy evidence to a systemic discrimination against Arabs.

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

It is not a problem if first generation immigrants are uneducated but it is a problem if they perpetuate a culture that keeps them uneducated and pursuing their tribal backward ways. Discrimination exists but it exists for Pakistanis, Kashmiris, Bangladeshis, Gujratis, Sikhs and Africans. So you cannot use that to explain why a part of the immigrants are still backward.

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

^
Tribal backward ways? Like what in particular?

Economic migrants typically want their subsequent generations to be successful...

In any case, a personal observation is that some of the most degenerate and backward Pakistanis are those who come from the educated, upper crust...read: westernized. Assimilation is not a cure.

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

Then what do you think is the practical solution?

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

^
At the risk of oversimplification: Integration. Allow for it. Plan for it.

This is the distinction between north America and Europe. America and Canada have a rich history of accepting new comers of great diversity and integrating them into society.

Europe seems to be on an assimilation kick...wrong problem, wrong method.

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

vroom

The area in the context of Pakistan can be fine and dandy, but the issues that are seen in the Uk Pakistani community are mostly in groups like this. Uneducated people brought to work in blue collar jobs, or illiterate types who moved later to take blue collared jobs.

and yes the offspring of these people are as mentally capable as the next person to do what anyone in UK can do, but the fact that they are raised in a manner which prevents them from reaching their potential, accompanied with the issues of racism (from the enlgish, and towards the english).

There are enough reports on this topic to support my stance.

Re: Limit Muslim Immigration, Australia Warned

Lets take France out of the picture and focus on UK.

No one is denying that there is racism there.

The racism is felt more by the blue collar desis from blue collar whites than other desi groups. At the same time the blue collar desi groups are the ones who have been slow ot integrate, and have their own racist views. Not all people of course but a higher ratio and a higher number than desis in other social clusters

a person is not undesirable based on their education level or social status, but what they do, how the integrate with their surroundings, and what they give to the country.

The biggest issues in Pakistani community in UK seem to stem from the part of the brit-pak society which has rural, uneducated, blue collar characteristics. does it mean that the issue is limited to this group? No, does it mean that everyone in this group is part of the prolem? No. what it means is that people in this social group are the biggest factors when you look at the issues faced by, and issues created by Pakistani community over all.