like all other prophets..jesus died..koran pinpoints jesus and says he died..

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

iza kal-allah o ya eesabna maryama, a anta kulta linaas-itakhazooni wa ummiya ilaaheeni min doonillah. kaala subhaanaka ma yakoonu lee un akaola ma laisa lee bahaq in kuntu kutohu fakad alimtahu ta’lamu ma fee nafsee wa laa a’lamo ma fee nafsika inaka anta alaamil ghuyoob ma kuntu lahum illa ma amartani bahi ane’budullaha rabbi wa rabbakum wa kuntu ilaihim shaheedum ma dumto feehim. FALAMMA TAWAFFAYNI kunta antarakeeba alaihim wa anta alaa kulle she’in shaheed.
(chapter 5, the table, verse 117, 118)

jab khuda nay kahaa ai eesaa ibn e maryam, kya too nay logon ko kaha tha kay allah ko chor ker mujhay aur meri maan ko khuda maan lo? to aisa nay jawaab diya, ai khuda, paak hai teri zaat, mujhay zeb nahee deta kay woh baat kahoon jis ka mujhay hak nahee, agar main nay koi aisee baat kahee hai to too usay jaanta hai, kyonke too jaanta hai jo mere dil main hai, aur main nahee jaanta to tere dil main hai. too bayshak sab ghaibon ka jaannay waala hai. main nay unhain siwaye us kay kuch nahee kahaa jis ka too nay mujhay hukam diya, aur woh yeh, kay ibaadat kero us ki jo mera aur tumhara dono ka rub hai. aur main un kee haalat ko dekhta raha jab tuk main un kay darmyaan raha, lekin ai khuda, jub too nay mujhay WAFAAT DAY DEE ( falamma tawaafayni ) to phir too hee un ka nigran tha aut too hur aik cheez ko dekhnay waala hai.

this verse, in very very clear words, is telling us of the death of jesus!
what explanation does anyone have, for still believing that jesus is alive, and sitting on the sky with his physical body?

2

Translation by Dr. Muhsin Ali is :

Surah Maeeda - 118

"Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allâh) did command me to say: 'Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things. 

Again i am repeating, your translation is wrong, change it .

You are not an arabi language Alim, you do not know the usage of arabic words, so believe in those who know arabic, know their usage and know sunnah of Prophet SAW. Stop doing kufar and being one of them. mirza was a liar and a KAFIR. Do not follow him otherwise wait for the hell to tell you the truth. This is the most clear explanation i can give. Still if you would like to stick to your evil believes than its up to you.

Allah SWT says in Quran that HE guides those whome HE wishes.

Wa ma alaina illal balagh.

3

arabi zuban kay dushman,
kuch to allah ka khauf kero!!

where in the whole arabic lietrature, prose,
poetry, or any other text has used the word TAWAFFAYNI as "you took me up" ?

dear abdullah,
i throw your words back at you!

"You are not an arabi language Alim, you do not know the usage of arabic words, so believe in those who know arabic."

now i will prove to you, the point of view of arabic aalims who know more arabic than you!

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1) The dictionary:

taaj-ul-aroos, the most authentic arabic dictionary:

Tawaaffiya falanun iza maata!

when we say tawaffiya falanun, it means that person has died!!

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2) Hazrat Imam bokhari:

In bokhari book 3, kitaabul tafseer, they have explained the meaning of this verse...

and also said that peophet muhammad said, that i will be standing on the hauz-e-kausar, and some of my companions will be pulled to dozakh.. i will call them and say, they are my companions, and i will be replied, " you dont know what they did after you died"..

Prophet muhammad said, that i will reply in exactly the same way as jesus replied to allah!

then prophet muhammad recited the above mentioned verse!

if we use your translation, than we will have to believe that peophet muhammad will also say to allah, "you took me up".. !!

so hazrat imam bokhari has made clear, the meaning of this verse, that jesus has died just as prophet muhammad died!

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3) Hazrat ibne abas

Hazrat ibne abas was a cousin of peophet muhammad, and you must have read it that prophet muhammad prayed for hazrat ibne abas to have a special knowledge of koran!!!!

hazrat ibne abas has translated "mutawaffayka" as "mueetuka" ( DEATH!) ( bokhari kitab ul tafseer )

so there is no choice left but to believe that jesus is dead!

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4) Hazrat imam malick

hazrat imam malick needs not be introduced, and there is no doubt in his authenticity.

imam malick announced that jesus is dead!
( majma u behaar,book 1, page 286)

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5) hazrat imam ibne- hazam

imam ibne hazam was not a normal man, but an imam of great calibre, and please read "almahalli" book 1, page 23, that he have said, that this verse means jesus is dead!

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these were five out of thousands of great arabic ulema, who clearly stated that jesus has died!

these are all SUNNI ulema.. and now you do not have any place to run away.

"You are not an arabi language Alim, you do not know the usage of arabic words, so believe in those who know arabic."

so follow the arabic ulema , dear abdullah!

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ab bhee kero inkaar to hairat kya hai
mashhoor hai baysharam kee hai door balaa

4

Dear brothers,

Jewels wrote in his post, "where in the whole arabic lietrature, prose, poetry, or any other text has used the word TAWAFFAYNI as "you took me up" ?"

There is a little thing which he forgot to write here. Actually its a challange by Mirza sahib to all non-Ahmadi people to prove from any Arabic poetry, litreature of any kind, Quran or Hadith that the word tawafa means lifting up WHEN GOD IS A "Fa'IL" (the one who does the work) and Man IS A "MAF'OL" (the one on which the work is done). This means that whenever the tawafy is done by God on a man it only and only means death. IF YOU DOUBT, PLEASE TRY TO PROVE IT BY GIVING ANY OTHER EXAMPLE.

In this verse God is a Fa'il and Hazrat Issa (AS) is a maf'ol because the work is done on him. So this means that he is dead.

So brother jewel forgot to point out the issue of Fa'il and Maf'ol. I hope this issue is clear now.

KHUDA HAFIZ

[This message has been edited by mirzayasir (edited January 26, 1999).]

5

... and even if we disregard fa'il and maf'ool... it still can NEVER mean "TAKE SOMEONE UP!"

the dictionary tells us two meanings of tawafee..
1) death
2) sleep

it is not sleep in the case of jesus, so its death!

6

Listen carefully Jewels.

Are you suggesting that the Quran is
CONTRADICTING ITSELF?

The Quran CANNOT contradict itself.
It clearly states that:

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157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to
appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

  1. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

  2. And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-

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YUSUFALI TRANSLATION

Although it is not clear whether Jesus
died or not, it is clear that the JEWS
DID NOT KILL JESUS. Maybe Allah withdrew
his life and he died, or Allah raised his
soul up to Himself and he is still in an
alive state.

Maybe the word "death" in Surah 159 means
"apparent death" , or maybe it means
"real death"(in which case Jesus actually
died)??

Or, maybe he will be brought back to life
later.

All this is debateable. Why not ask a
scholar instead of arguing?

But do not overlook Ayat number 157 and 158.

7

Dear Bukhari,

We are not saying that Quran contradicts in itself.

The translation which you have provided for the verses are not exact because the word rafa doesn't mean lifting up physically. There is another thread for the meaning of the word rafa. Please read that, you will find out that rafa only means darjaat buland karna (for proofs see the other thread).

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It is certain the jews didn't kill Jesus and Ahmadies also believe in that and we believe that he didn't die on the cross instead he died his natural death a the age of 120. This age is described in an Hadith by prophet Muhammad (SAW).( For reference see::: Kanz-ul-amaal vol 2 page 120, Mastadrak hakim pg 140, Zarkani vol.5 pg 421)

KHUDA HAAFIZ

MIRZA YASIR

8

Dear bokhari,

please go into the thread, "the meaning of rafa'"where youwill find out that it has become ABSOLUTELY clear, and you have become ABSOLUTELY speechless, that this verse you posted DOES NOT SAY "allah picked jesus up physically , alive, on the seventh sky from where he will return through a ladder".
it merely means, allah exalted him!

9

DEAR BROTHERS,

The meaning of word rafa, meaning of word mutavafa and some important verses are discussed in deatil in the new thread ::: JESUS ALIVE OR DEAD???

All the verses which you claim says that Jesus is alive are discussed there.

PLEASE READ IT

KHUDA HAFIZ

MIRZA YASIR