First of all it is not clear what prophet said about what is he leaving behind and needs to be followed. Everybody agrees that he mentioned Koran but the other thing is greatly debated because Shia muslim say that he said he is leaving Koran and Ahl-e-Bait. So if we assume that shias are right( and they may be right, who knows) then the whole issue of Hadiths collapses.
[quote]
Originally posted by Mullah_DoPiazza:
** Totally flase statement. Prophet left just one book called Quran.
**
[/quote]
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla ....
do you really know what you talk about?
Allah SWT told in Quran 'beleivers' to follow Prophet PBUH.
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?
Mulla
You still have not answered the question concerning how many units do we pray!
We are ordered to pray in the Qur'aan over 70 times, but at no time are we told how many Rakats etc.
Please think hard and do not post an Algebra calculation similar to Rashad Khalifas, as he is a well known Numerologist!
We await!!
[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Mulla
You still have not answered the question concerning how many units do we pray!
We are ordered to pray in the Qur'aan over 70 times, but at no time are we told how many Rakats etc.
Please think hard and do not post an Algebra calculation similar to Rashad Khalifas, as he is a well known Numerologist!
We await!!
**
[/quote]
Everything is in Quran, follow what it says. If there is no mention of rakat in the translation that you are reading, then pray whatever way you think is the best and let God be the judge of it. Why follow man made rules and this doc that's being mentioned here, is also a human being.
Mulla
The question I asked regarding the number of rakats in salaat is NOT in the Qur'aan. So can you please enlighten us as to where do we find this information.
If it is in the Qur'aan as you have said, can you please give the Surah and Ayat.
Just for the record you are not the first person I have asked this question and believe me, I am yet to recieve an answer.
However, if you feel you have read the Qur'aan with more Tajweed and Tawheed than myself, then please forward the requested information and help a Muslim.
Once again, can you please forward the Surah and Ayat in which we are told how many Rakat to pray including Jumah salaat.
This is a very important request, as Muslims have been praying a fixed amount of rakats at the prescribed salaat times for 1400 years. And I will be obliged to know where they extracted such info.
I look forward to your response.
[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Mulla
The question I asked regarding the number of rakats in salaat is NOT in the Qur'aan. So can you please enlighten us as to where do we find this information.
If it is in the Qur'aan as you have said, can you please give the Surah and Ayat.
Just for the record you are not the first person I have asked this question and believe me, I am yet to recieve an answer.
However, if you feel you have read the Qur'aan with more Tajweed and Tawheed than myself, then please forward the requested information and help a Muslim.
Once again, can you please forward the Surah and Ayat in which we are told how many Rakat to pray including Jumah salaat.
This is a very important request, as Muslims have been praying a fixed amount of rakats at the prescribed salaat times for 1400 years. And I will be obliged to know where they extracted such info.
I look forward to your response.
**
[/quote]
I reject anything other than Quran as part of my Islam. Having said that, I'm gonna play your game for a while and see how far we get. Quran does not mention anything about number of rakats etc. That has been left up to an individual. Prayer is one of the five pillars of Islam and Quran guides you on that regarding wuddu, facing qibla, standing, bowing and prostrating and saying specific words. Rest has been added like covering your head, various head/hand gestures, reciting loudly, taking off shoes, assembly in the mosque and following Imam etc. Some people have done that for 1400 years as you say and others have not. Prayers don't have to be in arabic and azaan doesn't have to in arabic. What good is a prayer or Azaan or a sermon in arabic if its not understood by the person?
Then you dont believe in Quran. Quran says you should follow the Prophets (pbuh) sayings and doings...but how you want to follow them without accepting hadiths?!? Strange hana?! You believe jews where killed in second world war, you believe that napoleon did exist. You believe that Jesus was crucified..dont you?!?! But why? You have any proof rather than those books and traditions?! They might be wrong aswell.....
"kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat"
Mulla
Thank you for playing the game.
The Qur'aan does not mention the amount of rakats but you insisted otherwise in your previous post.
Here's a reminder:
Everything is in Quran, follow what it says. If there is no mention of rakat in the translation that you are reading, then pray whatever way you think is the best and let God be the judge of it. Why follow man made rules and this doc that's being mentioned here, is also a human being.
If their is no mention of the rakats, then how have the Muslims achieved unity in Salaat over 1400 years? Please specify.
100% of ALL muslims regardless of sect agree on the following:
Fajr - 4 Fardh
Zuhr - 4 Fardh
Asr - 4 Fardh
Maghrib - 3 Fardh
Isha - 4 Fardh
Where has this information come from and more importantly, who can confirm this is correct! Please answer.
Furthermore, the Qur'aan makes a number of things pretty clear as well:
044.058 Verily, We have made this (Qur’an) easy, in thy tongue, in order that they may give heed.
041.002 A Revelation from (Allah), Most Gracious, Most Merciful;-
041.003 A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur’an in Arabic, for people who understand.
043.003 We have made it a Qur’an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).
043.004 And verily, it is in the Mother of the Book, in Our Presence, high (in dignity), full of wisdom.
054.017 And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?
012.002 We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur’an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.
The above ayats state time and time again that the Qur'aan is in Arabic and is easy to understand. Therefore the prayers are also in Arabic.
What is the reason behind this? Please elaborate.
In addition:
004.043 O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say....
Say what! Where does it tell us in the Qur'aan what to say at time of Salaat!
002.238 Guard strictly your (habit of) prayers, especially the Middle Prayer; and stand before Allah in a devout (frame of mind).
And say what whilst praying!!!!
What do we say when we pray to Allah!!!
Do you honestly believe that the unity of Salaat was just a matter of chance or the figment of someones imagination!
"Whatsoever the Messenger gives you then take it and whatsoever he probits you from then refrain from it." [al-Hashr (59):7]
Let me pretend for a minute that I do not know how to perform Salaat, ie what to recite etc etc. Can you please educate me on what to recite and why, confirming the source!!
Finally, if you only believe and accept the Qur'aan. Do you believe that the Last Sermon of the Prophet PBUH actually took place!!
My mistake
I meant 2 Fardh in FAJR and not 4.
Typing error.
What if a person had a cold and he asked you to lick his fingers ?
[quote]
Originally posted by a1shah:
**What if a person had a cold and he asked you to lick his fingers ?
**
[/quote]
i guess he can lick his own fingers. Besides its not like you have to make someone else do it. You can lick your own fingers.
[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
My mistake
I meant 2 Fardh in FAJR and not 4.
Typing error.**
[/quote]
This is also numerology and completely false. When I said that everything is in Quran, I meant it exactly what I said. If you think Quran is deficient in certain aspects and you have to add certain items to make it complete, that's tellig God that he didn't know what to say.
Regarding last sermon, Prophet gave many sermons, so one of them has to be the last sermon. As to what he said in that, no one knows exactly. Whatever versions are being circulated, are all made up according to the convenience of various sects.
But the word of God is Quran, and its here. Prophet's only function was to deliver God's message in the form of Quran and that's it. What he's been quoted as doing or saying is all false. And please don't go on a rampage of cut and past of various ayats from various web sites and don't try to expalin what Quran means, just follow what it says.
If you wanna pray a certain number of rakats, go knock yourself out. Believe me it won't hurt my feelings. Every one will be held accountable for their own deeds and one thing is guaranteed that hadith is not going to rescue anyone.
When God chose a person to reveal His message, that person was Arabic speaking and therefore, message had to be in Arabic. That doesn't mean that if you translate that message and pray in the language that you undestand, your prayers will go invain.
[This message has been edited by Mullah_DoPiazza (edited August 27, 2001).]
This whole thread makes me laugh!!!
On the one hand the Ithna Ashariya Shia jump up to say "Hey look at these crazy narrations, this proves all syaing of the Messenger to be false"
On the other, we have an orientalist saying that the deen of Allah resides only within the Quran, which is a flaud argument, one that a 3 year old could realise as complete rubbish.
What this Hadeeth and the reactions of muslims serves to show is how far removed we have become from the deen of Allah. Living in our 21st centuary comforts we have really lost a great deal. There was a time in History when the companions of the Messenger of Allah would cling onto every word he (SAW) would say, would be ready to accept each of his (SAW) comands. This proves to show just how weak our Iman has become.
I have read a hadeeth many times where it has been said that there will come a time when holding onto the Sunnah will be like holding onto hot coals, and that is very much true of this era we now live in.
I think everyone is getting grossed out with "licking" but comeon haven't u eaten doritos and licked your fingers? same thing, nothing gross.
When I was little, my mom would feed me. If she was feeding me with her hands, then I would lick her fingers. It would be unhygenic for her to lick her own fingers since I was eating.
I don't think this hadith meant that one person eat a meal and then have someone else lick the fingers.
Jeez, do what you like!
This thread needs to be closed down !!!
logon ko fazool mein behs kernay ki bari addat hai..na koi illm, na koi knowledge aur shuru ho jatay hein batein banana...o'bhai hazoor ki kitni hadeesain hein...kin kin par amal kertay ho tum sub jo is hadees par itna shor machaya hua hai...ager koi shuk hai to kisi alim-fazil se poocho...woh bata dega kaih sahi hai yan ghalat...bila wajah youn ghalat/sahi keha thik nahin...
God bless u all...
DerVaisH
muhabatein theen kabhi apne dermian kitni...
bicha gaye hai anna hum mein doorian kitni...
abhi to toota hai dil hi teri judai mein...
girein gi hum pe abhi aur bijlian kitni...
[quote]
Originally posted by a1shah:
**What if a person had a cold and he asked you to lick his fingers ?
**
[/quote]
Does this hadith say that "you have to get your hands licked by someone no matter you are sick or other is sick"??? there is something called 'common sense', I hope people use it commonly when deriving conclusions.
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?