Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

So, the morality of Muslims is so superior that they cannot possibly contract AIDS? I Christianity we start with the assumption that we are all human, and therefore all sinners. No Muslim sinners? Sure.

A very informative article:

Time ebbing for 6 foreigners in Libya AIDS case

By Elisabeth Rosenthal International Herald Tribune

FRIDAY, OCTOBER 14, 2005

	 						 			 							**SOFIA**](http://www.iht.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?query=SOFIA&sort=swishrank) In 1998, at a time when her country was mired in hyperinflation, Valya Chervenyashka left her rural Bulgarian village and went to work as a nurse in Benghazi, Libya, for $250 a month, to pay for her daughters' college education. 

Today, Chervenyashka and four other Bulgarian nurses, as well as a Palestinian doctor, are under death sentence in a Libyan jail and facing a firing squad, accused of intentionally infecting more than 400 hospitalized Libyan children with the AIDS virus - in order, according to the initial indictment, to undermine Libyan state security.

They were also charged with working for Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service.

Although the motive of subversion has since been dropped, the death sentence stands.

The nurses’ final appeal is scheduled to be heard by the Libyan Supreme Court on Nov. 15.

With that date approaching, President Georgi Parvanov of Bulgaria plans to raise the case at a meeting with President George W. Bush in Washington on Monday.

International experts, including Dr. Luc Montagnier, the eminent discoverer of the AIDS virus, have traveled to Libya to study the situation and have testified that the children were infected as a result of poor sanitary practices at the Al Fateh hospital in Benghazi. The nurses have testified that they were tortured in the months after their arrest.

** “Nurses from little towns in Bulgaria acting as agents of Mossad?” said Antoanetta Ouzounova, one of Chervenyashka’s daughters, now 28. “It all sounds funny and absurd until you realize your mother could die for it.”**

For seven years the nurses’ plight has simmered on the back burner of international politics, especially since Colonel Muammar el-Qaddafi, the Libyan president, renounced terrorism and nuclear weapons in 2003.

Last year, even as Condoleezza Rice, the U.S. secretary of state, and Romano Prodi, then head of the European Commission, were protesting the case in meetings, the commission invited Qaddafi to Brussels for lunch, and the United States lifted trade sanctions.

But now, with time running out, the simmering case may well come to boil, threatening Qaddafi’s rehabilitation.

Negotiations to secure the nurses’ release are “not moving well,” Ivailo Kalfin, Bulgaria’s foreign minister, said in a recent interview here.

** Libyan officials have suggested that the Bulgarians pay $10 million in compensation for each of the 420 children allegedly infected with AIDS, according to Bulgarian and EU diplomats.

The Europeans have countered with offers of HIV treatment and humanitarian help.
**
“These women are hostages,” said Solomon Passy, head of the Bulgarian National Assembly’s Committee on Foreign Policy.

Last summer, the EU’s commissioner for external relations, Benita Ferrero-Waldner, visited the Benghazi hospital where the nurses had worked.

“The EU is leaving no stone unturned to try to secure the release of the Bulgarian nurses and the Palestinian medic,” said Emma Udwin, the commissioner’s spokeswoman, while declining to go into specifics.

If the nurses had been Italian or British or American, diplomats say, the case would have provoked a major international protest, with posters and yellow ribbons demanding their release. But here in Sofia, a lazy city of trendy cafés and decaying Communist monuments, there is only muted outrage.

Bulgaria is trying not to rock the boat so as to be admitted to the EU as planned in 2007; it is accustomed to second-class diplomatic status.

Kalfin, the foreign minister, said with a shrug: “It is one thing when Britain raises an issue; it is another when Bulgaria raises it.”

In hopes of brokering a deal, the European Union has sent diplomats and medical teams to Libya to study and consult on the country’s HIV/AIDS problem. It has flown dozens of children from Libya to Europe for medical treatment and held training sessions for doctors in Libya.

Bulgaria recently agreed to send Libya 20 of the 50 pieces of medical equipment it had requested, and even offered to restructure the $27 million in Libyan debt it holds.

** But Libya has countered that Bulgaria should also negotiate a payment of “blood money” to the families of the infected children**, saying that the families might then express forgiveness toward the nurses and ask for dismissal of the court case, a procedure permitted under Islamic law.

The Libyan figure of $10 million for each child draws parallels to the $10 million Libya agreed to pay each of the families of the 270 people killed in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 by its agents over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988. For Bulgaria, it would amount to 25 percent of its gross domestic product. The Bulgarian government has rejected the idea. It rejects the concept of “blood money,” Kalfin said. “Second, there’s no way to compare this to Lockerbie.”

Nonetheless, a senior EU diplomat said there had been “underground meetings” about a payment.

There is little doubt that in the late 1990s, Libya was coming to grips with a serious HIV/AIDS outbreak. There is also no evidence that it was caused by the five Bulgarian nurses and the Palestinian doctor - although they may have inadvertently spread the virus when treating children with blood or syringes provided by the hospital.

A team of World Health Organization doctors dispatched to study HIV in Libya in late 1998 concluded that there were “multiple sources of infection.” Their internal report was never released but was provided to the International Herald Tribune by an official familiar with the case.

In Benghazi, the report said, “nosocomial transmission” - accidental spread during medical procedures - was “mainly responsible for the current epidemic.” It added that sterile supplies and better equipment were needed.

Three years later, Montagnier was hired by Qaddafi’s son as an independent expert to study the situation at Al Fateh Hospital.

“Some of the children were infected before the Bulgarian nurses even arrived, and others after they left,” said Montagnier said in a telephone interview, recalling his 2001 visit.

** He said that most of the children were also infected with various subtypes of hepatitis C, which can be transmitted to children only by injection. This, he said, clearly demonstrated that “there were many errors in hygiene in this hospital at the time.”**

** In a handwritten 2003 declaration to the Bulgarian Foreign Ministry, one nurse, Snezhana Dimitrova, described torture that had included electric shocks and beatings. **

** “They tied my hands behind my back,” she wrote. “Then they hung me from a door. It feels like they are stretching you from all sides. My torso was twisted and my shoulders were dislocated from their joints from time to time. The pain cannot be described. The translator was shouting, 'Confess or you will die here.”'**

In February 2000, a year after their arrest, charges were filed against the nurses - Chervenyashka; Dimitrova; Kristiana Valcheva; Nasya Nenova; and Valentina Siropulo - and the doctor, Ashraf Ahmad Jum’a.

After a quiet trial in May 2004, the five nurses and the Palestinian doctor were sentenced to death by firing squad.

** The Libyan police officers accused by the nurses of torture were acquitted.**

Experts on all sides express skepticism that the conviction will be overturned or that the nurses will be released in November, either by the court or by Qaddafi himself, because such a reversal would fly in the face of overwhelming public opinion in Libya.

** Complicating matters, the experts say, is the fact that the Qaddafi regime decided early on to blame the foreign nurses for HIV rather than acknowledging a medically embarrassing and politically dangerous situation.
**
“They’ve fingered the Bulgarians as murderers and they cannot step back,” Passy said. Justice, he said, is in the hands of Qaddafi, “and he can free the nurses, but he will have to pay a high political price.”
http://www.iht.com/bin/print_ipub.php?file=/articles/2005/10/14/news/nurses.php

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

This is lame, sentencing innocent people to death for soemthing they did not do.

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

Lamer are those supporting the execution.

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

Wtf? Easy with the generalizations there bub...you do realize that comment applies to those here who actually gasp are Muslim, and don't support the verdict of the trial...noooooo, is that possible?!

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

Relax, I was addressing these rather holier-than-thou statements that would be humorous if not so pompous.

Read on, from a source you can hardly quibble with:

**AIDS.. Hidden Crisis In Arab, Islamic Countries **
*By Mustafa Abdel-Halim, IOL Staff
*CAIRO, December 1 (IslamOnline.net) - As the number of AIDS patients has risen to a surprising - yet alarming - levels in Arab and Islamic countries over the last few years, many take the blame for the shortcomings to deep-rooted reticence about discussing the epidemic and reluctance of unscrupulous governments and apparently conservative societies to admit it.

Coinciding with World AIDS Day, Saudi Arabia announced Monday, December 1, that 6,787 are living with HIV infection, five times higher than the number of the cases reported by the conservative Islamic kingdom in early August 2002.

In Indonesia, the World’s largest Muslim country has a rapidly escalating level of infection among prostitutes, their customers, injection drug users and prisoners. “Indonesia has one of the fastest growing epidemics in the world,” Elizabeth Pisani, an epidemiologist with Aksi Stop AIDS, an AIDS prevention and care group, was quoted by Agence France-Presse (AFP) as saying.

In Malaysia, the country now has around 57,000 reported cases of HIV/AIDS compared to 54,000 as of June this year.

But the real number of could easily be more than double the official figure, as many fail to report their condition for fear of stigma or discrimination in conservative mainly-Muslim Malaysia.

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

It must be the jews or christians or hindus who have em... no Muslim can possibly have AIDS..

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

had those nurses and doctors been muslims and the dead children been american or european, the whole world would have gone up in demonstrations asking for a swift execution of the "mosnters"....

but since the children who died r just another of those mozlem ayrabs, who cares, those bulgarians r innocent and let 400,000 die, who cares, the GORAS r angels, and perhaps those children deserved to die before they grew up to become terrorists....

when all this comes from the westerners, its understandable....

when it comes from muslims themselves, its really a pity!

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

should this be handled along political perspectives and emotions or based on facts, soud logic and expert analysis?

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

The article OG posted states that in all of the Middle East, only 750,000 people have been infected...And the IOL article further states that almost all of the incidences are found in the fringe elements of society like prostitutes, drug users and prisoners...

With a high populated country like Indonesia boasting of only 57,000 infected people and those only the prostitutes and drug users, that's a fraction of society...

As for the children being infected before, as the Washington Times article tries to make us believe, how come there were no medical records of these children being diagnosed with HIV? How come the doctors were treating these children, and yet had no knowledge that they were infected with HIV and very conveniently forgot to jot it down in their records...

Too many things don't add up...

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

A 100,000 + people dead in Iraq plus some thousands innocent in Afghanistan…

I guess nations and people who opt for decisions based on political perspectives and
emotions are the successful ones rather than those who use facts, sound logic and expert analysis…

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

lajjo

I am not interested in discussing iraq, cake recipes, latest bolly wood movies or any of that unrelated crap in a thread discussing something completely different.

as it is, Its tough enough assessing the situation without the unrelated junk

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

You are in denial.

AIDS IN MUSLIM AFRICAN COUNTRIES “An estimated 650,000 children have lost a parent to AIDS in Zambia (20% of the population is Muslim), an African country where 20 percent of adults suffer from AIDS/HIV”

  • AIDS in Africa
    The Muslim population in Africa represents about 65% of all the African people. AIDS kills some 6,000 people each day in Africa, which amounts to more deaths than caused by wars, famines and floods. Africa is home to 70% of the adults and 80% of the children living with HIV in the world***.*** The estimated number of newly infected adults and children in Africa reached 3.5 million at the end of 2001. It has also been estimated that 28.5 million adults and children were living with HIV/AIDS in Africa by the end of the year. AIDS deaths totaled 3 million globally in 2001, and of that total, 2.2 million AIDS deaths occurred in Africa alone.

http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemonth/october02_index.php?l=4

Now, remind me again where Libya is located? Africa must have a whole shi*load of Bulgarian nurses to kill off 6 thousand people per day. Maybe Lajiwobbles is convinced that the 35% religious minority in Africa are the only ones with AIDS. Stick your head in the sand a bit further Lajjy.

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)


With proof that they didn't do anything? Victim mentality runs deep. Who in their right mind would want execution for benevolent medical workers who were wrongly accused and jailed?

Of course for this to happen, we actually would have to have muslim nurses and doctors leaving their comfy homes to help out less fortunate gora children.

[quote]
but since the children who died r just another of those mozlem ayrabs, who cares, those bulgarians r innocent and let 400,000 die, who cares, the GORAS r angels, and perhaps those children deserved to die before they grew up to become terrorists....
[/quote]
The GORAS as you like to refer to them were wrongly convicted by mozlem ayrabs so who is the one wishing death for the inncocent? Heck, let's kill 400,000 doctors and nurses who travel to mozlem countries to help out he less fortunate. Feel better?

These innocent nurses and doctors have been jailed for eight years, tortured and sentenced to death twice and we want them killed, why? To support the righteous Libyan justice system? To perpetuate the Muslim victim mentality? Because they are gora? Because surely Muslims couldn't get AIDS without goras causing it?

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

Jokes:

Q: When does an American think that ‘evidence’ and ‘proof’ should be taken into account before the punishment?

A: When it suits his purpose…


Q: According to the American justice system, what kind of ‘evidences’ and ‘proofs’ are not acceptable in a court of law?

A: All those not fabricated in the USA…

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

Those scientific journals that have called the evidence worthless are just western propaganda rags right Lajawab?


UN AIDS programme calls on Libya to review death sentences on foreign health workers

The Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS (UNAIDS](UNAIDS)) has called on Libyan courts to review the death sentence imposed on five Bulgarian nurses and a Palestinian doctor for the alleged intentional transmission of HIV to hundreds of children in light of evidence showing that the virus circulated before the health workers’ arrival.

“UNAIDS is concerned that certain scientific evidence appears to have not been taken into consideration and that this raises serious doubts regarding the conclusion reached by the court,” UNAIDS said in a news release.

“As published in the scientific journal Nature, an analysis of HIV and hepatitis virus samples taken from some of the children concluded that the HIV viral strains were circulating in the hospital where the children were treated before the nurses and doctor arrived in March 1998,” it added.
“UNAIDS urges that the present decision be reviewed, and that due weight be given to this evidence and all other available scientific evidence related to the case.”

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=21070&Cr=libya&Cr1=

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

Let’s not forget what’s happening in Iraq with the last evidences to be submitted to western justice…

400 children…Being treated by doctors in hospitals…Yet, none has a medical file which explains that they had HIV/AIDS prior to contact with these doctors…

Why were samples needed from the children? Didn’t the children have medical files? Wasn’t the HIV/AIDS screened in these children? Libya is a very developed country with the latest amenities in hospital care and medicine…So why no records of these children having HIV/AIDS before their contact with the doctors?

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

Funny how everything at Gupshup turns political. Fine

But on the topic of AIDs, The Goras, even Bush deserve nothing but praise. The largest most comprehensive plan to treat AIDs, and the funding to do it has been given to Africa (65% Muslim mind you) by the American people. Your Anti-American blindness prevents you from seeing the truth to this.

Corrupt bureaucracies often seek scapegoats. No one should understand that more than Muslims who are largely ruled by corrupt beaurocracies. Blaming foreign nurses and doctors for the failures of a pathetic healthcare system will only put a chill on the help that is needed to fight AIDS. In some countries the native healthcare providers themselves have been so depleted by AIDS that there would be no healthcare system what-so-ever without foreign volunteers and paid workers. How many more will die if thousands of healthcare workers fear for their lives and let Africa die off?

The "conviction" of these people in Libya is a pathetic occurance, and Muslims should be appalled that guests in a country are tortured and sentenced to death after travelling to a foreign country to treat the sick. Nobody here has the balls to ask, "How much money did Qaddafi waste on WMD's, that could have been used to buy sterile syringes?". Instead you dither with the word "proof" as if a Libyan court is impartial and unbiased.

Hold your leaders to account Muslims, do not seek easy scapegoats and foist the blame on others.

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

More generalizations, sour grapes and off topic crap.

The evidence that clears these medical workers has nothing to do with the American justice system or evidence. As if you have some credibility when speaking of justice systems anyway :rolleyes: Are we comparing it the perfect system in Libya, Pakistan or where?

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

According to the hospital medical records, some of the children became infected with HIV before the medics even started working at the hospital. And in one case, a child of HIV-negative parents became infected at birth in the hospital, long after the medics had been arrested. According to the prosecution, the dates are errors in the hospital’s record keeping.

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/308/5719/184?ijkey=1D54z7bDtDVoI&keytype=ref&siteid=sci

What do you say Lajawab?

Re: Libya to execute HIV medics. (A Justice Nightmare)

Qaddaffi alleged that the medics were part of a CIA-Mossad plot to test out the effects of using HIV/AIDS as a weapon to destroy other countries. He later recanted the statement.

** In a critical blow to the defense, the prosecutor instructed the judges’ panel to ignore the September 2003 testimony of French doctor Luc Montagnier, co-discoverer of the HIV virus***.* Montagnier visited al-Fateh hospital and co- authored an exhaustive report with Italian AIDS researcher Vittorio Colizzi on the cause of the infections, which according to the report began in 1997 – a full year before any of the accused arrived in Libya.

The scientists also found the infections to be an inevitable outcome of inadequate equipment, unskilled staff and the reuse of unsterile needles.

** “This tragedy is probably due to negligence,” Montagnier testified. “This can happen not only in this hospital, but in many others, particularly pediatric hospitals, because children are more vulnerable to infection, even by very small quantities of blood.”**

As with the original trial, scientific evidence presented by the defense was *ignored *in the retrial.

http://www.worldpoliticswatch.com/article.aspx?id=411