Let see what u guys say about this ....!

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Hello…

I am a regular reader at the forum and i see people talk about lots of things and i wondered what would you all think about this. It is a serious matter so please no jokes about it. What does Islam say about dad’s who sexually abuse their daughters.?? and if those daughters end up marrying non muslim men.? these question have been raised in the islamic club at my university and i wanted to know what you guys think.!

thanks.

:slight_smile:

[This message has been edited by affifa (edited October 29, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by affifa (edited October 29, 1999).]

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Please go to the region section of the forum

Regards
Zman

3

Helloo

First of all, Islam does not care what a human being thinks, its a complete religion and does NOT needs thinking of todays men. If you have a question regarding islam, it should be proven or disproven from islam and not from ones thinking.
Sorry for that little speech i will answer your question on that topic when i have some info handy see ya

Jaawan

Till next time*K_I_S_S*

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interesting topic..with many facets to discus...what about girls abused and molested etc????

Since you chose to ask what Islam says..then this is for religion...

Afifa..if you want to take out the religious focus..you can post it as a general question later.

Oh and welcome to gupshup

Deal with the faults of others as gently as with your own.
-Henrichs

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Muslim marrying non-muslim men....read on

That marriage is simply not valid from the Islamic point of view. The woman may be a Muslim but, by accepting to be married to a Hindu, she has violated the teachings of Islam on marriage. She accepted to be wed to a man who is not lawful for her. Therefore, the marriage is null and void. In other words, her relationship with him is
illegal. As for the faith of her children, perhaps it is more pertinent to ask about her faith. The fact that she has gone ahead with this arrangement and has been maintaining it for several years, having become the mother of more than one child, suggests that she does not have much regard to Islamic teachings. Otherwise, she would have taken the necessary steps to determine whether her marriage would be legal or not. Having failed to do so, and continued with this arrangement is a strong indication that she may not really care about what Islam says. Hence the question whether she is truly a Muslim or not. I do not suggest that by marrying this man she is to be cosidered a disbeliever. I
am only saying that she does not seem to care whether her marriage is valid or not. If a Muslim woman goes through the process of marriage with a non-Muslim, no matter what religion he follows, she remains a Muslim although her marriage is invalid. Her relationship with her man is one of adultery, not marriage. Her children are illegitimate in the sense that they are born outside wedlock. However, they bear no blame for the actions of their parents. They should
be considered Muslims if their mother is truly a Muslim. If it is doubtful that she will be helping them grow as Muslims,
someone else from her family should meet that end. When she dies, she may be buried in a graveyard of Muslims, because her action does not constitute apostacy.
Abusive fathers i couldnt find anything on it...maybe requires more time...or someone else can help...

Jaawan

Till next time*K_I_S_S*

[This message has been edited by Jaawan (edited October 29, 1999).]

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Why thank you Jawan..that really clarified how we should deal with muslim women who were sexually molested/abused as children.

Oh and one more thing..so are these women guilty of fornication or adultry because they were part of sinful acts?

Nothing...can be that cut and dry..and I doubt God is so cold when it comes to judgement.

[This message has been edited by kashmirigirl (edited October 30, 1999).]

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Kashmiri girl read the whole thing that originator wrote and what i wrote then comment plzzz....the thing i put there is about MUSLIM WOMEN MARRYING NON_MUSLIM GUYS...and later i said i could not find anything on abusive fathers maybe someone else can help...uuuffff only if you read whole thing!!!!!!!!!! oh maybe you did but not clearly...or you just write soo confusing!

Jaawan

Till next time*K_I_S_S*

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Good answer Jaawan, very clear cut. As for the guy who abuses his daughter well I would like to say he should be kicked in the nuts until he is dead but I know you will say that I shouldn't say my own opinion without evidence. So I won't say it. Does anybody know the offical islamic line on this issue?

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My appologies Jawan...i tend to blur when reading these long posts..
I also didn't want the thread to become a discussion of muslim women who marry non-muslim men....so jumped in.

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It is an issue that requires a much broader impression than to look at it purely from a religious standpoint. Like Mr. Xtreme, I don’t really know anything about how Islam deals with incest. I am not sure how other religions deal with this issue either. When incest involves abuse, it becomes even more horrific. From a victims’ point of view, he or she probably doesn’t care what Islam says about it, s/he will be so totally psychologically a nutcase that all s/he will want will be to get out of the situation, will never want to see the oppressor again, one who violated him or her, and will never want to know about him/her. So tell your buddies in the Uni that sexual abuse of children is a matter that needs to be looked upon from a ‘psychological’ perspective and not from a religious ascendance. You may also want to know how other religions (Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc.) deal with this issue.

In terms of the victimized Muslim girl marrying a non-Muslim. Again, that is also an issue that needs to be looked upon from cultural rather than religious paradigm. Keep religion out of your personal affair. You don’t need to look up in holy books who is a good person and who is not. Marriage is such a thing. Compatibility of views is more important in relationships than having similar religions. I know you wanted to know what Islam says and not what I think. So I apologize.

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First off, I think you can address your questions from a religious stance.

Islam is quite clear on what you are discussing. It is unlawful, according to the Quran:

"Prohibited to you (for marriage) are your mothers, daughters, sisters, fathers sisters, mothers sisters, brothers daughters, sisters daughters, foster mothers (who gave you suck), foster sisters, your wives mothers, your step daughters under your guardinaship, born of your wives..." (4:23)

In Islam you are only permitted to have sexual relations after marriage. Obviously if you cannot marry your daughter, you are not permitted to take her as a sexual partner.

"When news is brought to one of them of the birh of a female child his face darkens and he is filled with inward grief...shall he retain it on sufferance and contempt or bury it in the dust. Ah what an evil choice they decide on?" (16:58-59)

Islam stopped many injustices against female children, one was the prohibition on female infanticide. Any abuse of children, who are a symbol of purity and everything innocent, is an abuse of Islam. A child is a gift from Allah, parents shouldn't forget about how precious that gift is - its a miracle of creation. It should incite them to do good, to be better people, to look towards higher things.

"And know ye that your possessions and your progeny are but a trial." (8:28)

Those who abuse a child, abuse their progeny fail this trial miserably.

The only question that remains is the penalty in this life for abusing the sacred trust between a child and its parent. That I am unclear about. But when I get time, I'll try to see if I can find anything for you.

As far as the second part of your question is concerned - I'd like to reply in some detail, so I'll leave that for later.

Hope I've been of some help.

Achtung ;)

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What does Islam say about dad's who sexually abuse their daughters.??

Well, I don't know what islam says about it but i do know that the unfortunate thing happens to some innocent girls.
We all say its bad...yeah it is! but how many of us have the guts to deal with this issue after the incident, as a husband, brother or dad. Do I see any hands....?? If yes then I'm hoping the girl is not shown any pity cuz it wasn't her fault in the first place.

ciao,
BoSS

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Dear Achtung ,

The debate is not about “sexual relations”. It is about “sexual abuse”. I think you know the difference.

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well it seems to me that more things are said on what is said in the Quran about women marrying non muslims and well we are very clear on that and the amazing thing about my friend being a muslim and married to a non muslim is that they have 2 sons and they both are muslim. they go to islamic school every friday and their brought up is done quite well. it is just that now days father are more abusing their daughters as to before and in the past these things have been kept quite but now they are in the open.

well being brought up in Saudi Arabia i think i am well understood on the facts of Islam and Do's and Don'ts of it. But i am appreciative of the response i got.

so thank you again

;)

[This message has been edited by affifa (edited November 02, 1999).]

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Affifa,

First it is important to define sexual abuse. My definition involves unconsented sexual activity or exploitation of gender for personal or other gains.

I am sure that Islam does not condone sexual abuse of any kind. Unfortunately, the attitude of the illiterate masses in Pakistan and some other countries is that it is always women (whether daugthers, sisters, or wives) who are to blame in cases of sexual abuse. Individuals committing these crimes, if convicted, receive the highest penalty under the law. Note I said 'if'. Islamic countries still do not openly talk about sexual abuse or offer therapy. These further complicates matters because kids are not educated to realize what abuse is and so many elements of our society refuse to believe in sexual abuse of kids.

The question of marriage is an interesting one. According to Islamic Law the a Muslim woman marrying a non Muslim male is not valid within the context of Islamic law. My interpretation is that since at the time of this law being passed, men dominated women in many respects and because Muslim population was still evolving, such marriages were not allowed to protect Islamic interests in future generations.

As a Muslim I am in conflict with this law. I believe one should marry whom they are most compatible with. Not all individuals want children and why should they be subjected to these restrictions.

Now should such a marriage take place I am sure the parties involved will have considered the outcome on their kids. I hope such parents allow their kids to choose their own religion having taught them the both, instead of forcing one on them. This is one source of conflict that arises in such a setup as opposed to a homogenous religious environment.

Imad Khan
Senior Market Strategist
Aegis Financial, LLC

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NY Ahmadi, you are correct it is about sexual abuse. Sorry for the confusion - I thought that most people would just assume that sexual relations with a child equates to abuse. I forgot that some people need everything spelled out for them, in order to understand.

Sexual abuse of any sort is not allowed in Islam. In fact punishment for such offences is very high. Suffice it to say...the verses I've quoted still apply.

Achtung

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Hi! If I may just say that I also dont know about incest and the Islamic rulings pertaining to it--except that it is HARAAM!

As for the muslim lady who married a non-Muslim I have read the books on Islamic Law regarding this matter and the answer--for classical Sunni Islam--that if a muslim woman marries a non-Muslim man, the marriage will be one between two disbelievers. ie. SHE HAS BECOME AN APOSTATE FROM ISLAM EVEN THOUGH SHE MIGH CONSIDER HERSELF A MUSLIM i.e. A ZINDEEQ because it is in direct conflict to clear cut verses and hadiths on this matter. As for the faith of her children...well, that is for them to decide when they reach puberty; till that time they are in the faith of their parents.

IKHAN said "I am in conflict with this law..."

It is not befitting for the believers to have their own opinion when Allah and His Messenger have decided on a matter.

This is a paraphrase of a Qur'anic Verse.

[This message has been edited by Asif (edited November 04, 1999).]