Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
Difference Zia had over his compatriots was that he used to say bismillah before doing some thing wrong and offered fatiha after what he did went wrong. All else was same. :)
Few positives that i know is that he was big supporters of scholars, was mureed of Dr abdul hai arfi rehmatullah aliah who was khalifa of Moulana Ashraf ali thanvi sahib rehmatullah alih.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
How different other leader would have been during soviet invasion of afghanistan? what would have been most suitable action by pakistan as a nation to that crisis?
The most suitable action would have been to keep them in refugee camps and sent them back when the invasion was over. Instead we let them spread like cancer throughout Pakistan and that led to the drug culture and Kalshnikov culture in the country. WE are still suffering heavily due to the policies of this mad general.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
why did he hated Bhutto so much? and also, if Zia hadnt taken over, do you guys think any other general would have done the same thing with Bhutto?
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
why did he hated Bhutto so much? and also, if Zia hadnt taken over, do you guys think any other general would have done the same thing with Bhutto?
Two things:
first: It was not so much hatred of Bhutto, he was still very popular and would have won the elections if they were held and Zia knew if he came back to power his days would be numbered. To save his own neck Bhutto had to go and also because of the point listed below.
Second: If Zia was not there Bhutto would still have gone because US wanted to stop him from making the nukes. Ironically despite getting him killed they failed in their desire and Pakistan went nuclear. Remember what Henry Kissinger said to Bhutto at Islamabad airport when he failed to persuade him to stop making the nukes. He said "We will make a horrible example of you". They had a perfect agent in Zia to do just that.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
so either way Butto would have died. I agree he was popular with the masses, and would have won the elections again. Zia feared this and got rid of him. I remember reading somewhere that before Bhutto death sentence was announced, thousands of supporters were thrown in jail mostly from Punjab. and the charge read something like this, " Since you are likely to incite trouble on the annoucemnet of verdict of Bhutto trial you are hereby detained" how did the regime know what will be the verdict, when Zia kept on saying in public that courts are independent and trial was fair. strangely, nobody pointed that out, but again, it wouldnt have made a difference. 
Zia was biggest ally of US in cold war and once they no longer needed Zia, the got rid of him as well. alot of people say, that zia death remains a mystery, but isnt it pretty clear who was behind it.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
He was scared of Bhutto as he had overthrown him to get into power, if he had left him alone, PPP could at some stage a comeback. If there was some other general maybe the situation would have been different. Installing generals out of turn have always proved to be a disaster for the country like Ayub, Zia, Musharraf and maybe even Yahya Khan.
Here’s some info about Ayub Khan:
The events surrounding his appointment set the precedent for a Pakistani general being promoted out of turn, ostensibly because he was the least ambitious of the Generals and the most loyal.[SUP][15]](Ayub Khan - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Three months before the end of his tenure as Commander-in-Chief, Ayub Khan deposed his mentor, Iskandar Mirza, Pakistan’s President, in a military coup – after Mirza had declared martial law and made Ayub martial law commander.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
Looking at the kind of mess Pakistan is in right now, it is so difficult to say who is good or bad anymore. Zia was so much loved by Pakistanis when he was alive and later hated when we had to pay the price but still it is hard to blame him alone for all this mess. Look at what the politicians did to Pakistan in the 90s after Zia's death.
Benazir, who was supposed to be against Zia's policies took the evil policies one step further and supervised creation of Taliban. Would Benazir or any other politician not have done the same thing on Afghan jihad if Zia was not there?
And Zia alone can't be blamed for starting the Afghan jihad, it was Bhutto who announced it in 1974 in Peshawar calling Jihad the future of wars for Pakistan (it proves Bhutto was quite far sighted). Very little is known about it.
And talking about legacies, its true that the current mess of terrorism can be blamed on Zia but look at what the legacy of Bhutto has done to Pakistan: a third rate thug from rural Sindh is ruling Pakistan today and his son is getting ready to take over the throne, all in the name of Bhutto.
Despite all of Zia's crimes, it is hard to criticize a man who was respected by general population at the time of his death and who never saw his downfall. This I think is only true for two leaders in Pakistan: Zia and Quaid e Azam.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
^ have you got any reference with regards to Bhutto's stance on jehad, as thats the first time I am hearing about it. As far as I know Bhutto had more leanings towards the left.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
^ have you got any reference with regards to Bhutto's stance on jehad, as thats the first time I am hearing about it. As far as I know Bhutto had more leanings towards the left.
I don't have any reference, only heard it on tv.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
Looking at the kind of mess Pakistan is in right now, it is so difficult to say who is good or bad anymore. Zia was so much loved by Pakistanis when he was alive and later hated when we had to pay the price but still it is hard to blame him alone for all this mess. Look at what the politicians did to Pakistan in the 90s after Zia's death.
Benazir, who was supposed to be against Zia's policies took the evil policies one step further and supervised creation of Taliban. Would Benazir or any other politician not have done the same thing on Afghan jihad if Zia was not there?
And Zia alone can't be blamed for starting the Afghan jihad, it was Bhutto who announced it in 1974 in Peshawar calling Jihad the future of wars for Pakistan (it proves Bhutto was quite far sighted). Very little is known about it.
And talking about legacies, its true that the current mess of terrorism can be blamed on Zia but look at what the legacy of Bhutto has done to Pakistan: a third rate thug from rural Sindh is ruling Pakistan today and his son is getting ready to take over the throne, all in the name of Bhutto.
Despite all of Zia's crimes, it is hard to criticize a man who was respected by general population at the time of his death and who never saw his downfall. This I think is only true for two leaders in Pakistan: Zia and Quaid e Azam.
Zia was never liked or respected when he was ruling. It was his iron fist and total censorship of press which gave that impression. Everyone still remember the fraud referendum he carried out. lets not forget that under his brilliant leadership Pakistan lost Siachen to India and he swept it aside by his famous remark "Not a single blade of grass grows there". to compare him with Quaid is the biggest insult to Quaid.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
^i agree. but the insult holds true for comparing bhutto with Quaid too.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
nobody compared Bhutto with Quaid here!
but seriously Zia:smack:
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
for me, they all fall in the same category, all of them abused power and we are still paying the price of their flawed policies. martial law is indeed like a cancer for any society.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
Zia was never liked or respected when he was ruling. It was his iron fist and total censorship of press which gave that impression. Everyone still remember the fraud referendum he carried out. lets not forget that under his brilliant leadership Pakistan lost Siachen to India and he swept it aside by his famous remark "Not a single blade of grass grows there". to compare him with Quaid is the biggest insult to Quaid.
You are only looking at it from your angle. It was not his iron fist and censorship that made people sad on the day of his death, it was like Pakistan losing a leader but whether he was a leader or not is another discussion.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
There were people who were sad but a larger number of the population was relieved to have lost someone they started to despise after the first few years of his rule. People hated him and I know for a fact that in some mosques they prayed for his demise.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
Why do people who were sad on his death despise him so much now?
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
Why do people who were sad on his death despise him so much now?
once the iron fist went away and the censorship was no longer there people saw what a fraud and how incompetent he was and the reality than dawned on them. He was never respected as a leader, liked by the right wing which joined him in govt, parties like JI for two reasons, one their hatred of PPP and secondly they knew they could never come to power through the ballot.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
^i agree. but the insult holds true for comparing bhutto with Quaid too.
agreed.
Re: Legacy of Mard e Momin Zia ul Haq
He was just another sell-out like the politicians and generals of today. All he cared about was to hold on to power by any means for as long as possible. Just because he was a religious person does not make him a good leader. Most of the secatarian and religious killings that are happening nowadays can be contributed to his policies. He is gone and that is good for Pakistan and Islam.