lawsuits against US invaders

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

I am surprised no one has posted this yet, may be not important enough? :konfused:

Belgium already has amended law to keep US out of reach of international justice courts, therefore these cases may be trashed in a day or two. I have a question though, WHY were the laws amended? Just to save US govt? That does not serve “Justice” at all.

Dawn

Suit against Franks to be filed today

BRUSSELS, May 13: Relatives of victims of the Iraq war are to file a lawsuit alleging war crimes on Wednesday against US General Tommy Franks, the commander of coalition forces during the conflict, a lawyer said on Tuesday.

The plaintiffs, mostly Iraqis, will file the suit under a disputed Belgian “universal competence” law which allows charges to be brought regardless of where the alleged crimes took place.

Their suit relates to about 20 alleged crimes during the Iraq war, including three cases where US troops are accused of firing on ambulances, said lawyer Jan Fermon.

The plaintiffs include Dima Tahbub, the widow of a Jordanian correspondent for Qatar-based Arabic satellite broadcaster Al-Jazeera, Tareq Ayub, who was killed on April 8 in a US bombing, he said.

The “universal competence” law, in force since 1993, allows Belgian courts to rule on alleged crimes under international law, regardless of where they were committed, or the nationality of those accused of the victims.

The impending lawsuit has already sparked alarm in the US government, which remains concerned about the controversial law despite recent moves by the Belgian parliament to limit its scope.

The lawsuit shows “the danger of a judicial system that’s open to politically motivated charges,” State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said last month.

The Belgian lawyer said some of the allegations are backed up by witness statements by two doctors from a Belgian medical aid group, “Medecins pour le Tiers-Monde” (Doctors for the Third World).

Fermon is also representing several victims of fragmentation bombs as well as civilians fired upon when US troops entered Baghdad, he said.

The lawsuit will also related to the ransacking of a cultural centre “under the eyes of American soldiers.”

In early April, Belgian lawmakers tightened up the law to increase the power of federal prosecutors to decide whether to proceed with a suit.

The amendments also curtailed the ability of foreigners to file suit in Belgium and allowed the government to refer certain cases back to the accused’s own country.

In March US Secretary of State Colin Powell said that, unless restricted, the law could affect Belgium’s status as an international hub, including the European Union as well as NATO.

Some 30 current or former political leaders are facing legal action under the law, including Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, former US president George Bush and Powell.-AFP

2

Yeah they just discovered a mass grave in the marshes in southern Iraq (apparently some bodies with 2 right feet). Wonder who is gonna file lawsuits for them? General Franks is a brave man, and the fearful baastards hide in caves. May be Bengalis should sue Pakistani invadors as well in Belgium.

3

3,000 bodies have been pulled thus far from the mass grave, a local doctor said the toll could be as high as 15,000.

4

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by NYAhmadi: *
Yeah they just discovered a mass grave in the marshes in southern Iraq (apparently some bodies with 2 right feet). Wonder who is gonna file lawsuits for them? General Franks is a brave man, and the fearful baastards hide in caves. May be Bengalis should sue Pakistani invadors as well in Belgium.
[/QUOTE]

So, because Saddam carried out a massacare, it therefore gives a right to invader Frank as well to do the same. What's the difference between them. Not only should Frank, but Bush and his administration should be sued for war crimes. Maybe Japanese should sue the yanks for their kindness in Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well.

5

Re: lawsuits against US invaders

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *
The "universal competence" law, in force since 1993, allows Belgian courts to rule on alleged crimes under international law, regardless of where they were committed, or the nationality of those accused of the victims.
[/QUOTE]
Merits of the case aside, IMO it shows that Belgian judges must have an awful lot of free time in their hands. What an insane waste of public's tax dollars. For the sake of ordinary Belgians, I hope they have a sufficiently high court fee.

6

Bam! Another one bringing up Japan, like blind men in a boxing ringing swinging at anything. Yes the Americans are massacring Iraqi's like Saddam did (that's true if you don't let the facts get in the way ;) )

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Re: Re: lawsuits against US invaders

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
Merits of the case aside, IMO it shows that Belgian judges must have an awful lot of free time in their hands. What an insane waste of public's tax dollars. For the sake of ordinary Belgians, I hope they have a sufficiently high court fee.
[/QUOTE]

where should such cases be filed ?

8

NYA and UTD, go ahead file a case against Saddam nobody is stopping you, I am sure you will get full support from everyone. But this thread is directed toward US invasion.

9

I say sue any one in region who didn't say a word as Saddam slaughtered hundred's of thousands during his regime of terror.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by underthedome: *
I say sue any one in region who didn't say a word as Saddam slaughtered hundred's of thousands during his regime of terror.
[/QUOTE]

I say sue the nations and the companies in those nations who supplied Sadam with these weapons and turned a blind eye towards these massacares while he was doing their dirty work in Iran.

Can someone remind me who left the poor people of Basra at the mercy of Saddam in 1991. If in doubt, ask the residents of Basra.

11

Ask the UN, yea they were wrong back then too.

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NYA and UTD, go ahead file a case against Saddam nobody is stopping you, I am sure you will get full support from everyone. But this thread is directed toward US invasion.<<<

Changeez… It is not about UTD or NYA to file lawsuits, it is about victims of horrendous oppression. You should sometimes read your own posts before posting them. If NYA or UTD were oppressed, you can bet your ass that they will file a lawsuit. With the same token, victims of Saddam's brutality need to be compensated.

What you call invasion, others call it liberation. Have you not read about the mass graves and have you not seen how Shias were systematically being killed by him? More power to Shias now.

13

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by NYAhmadi: *
...
Changeez… It is not about UTD or NYA to file lawsuits, it is about victims of horrendous oppression. You should sometimes read your own posts before posting them. If NYA or UTD were oppressed, you can bet your ass that they will file a lawsuit. With the same token, victims of Saddam's brutality need to be compensated.
[/quote]

Then you should wait or urge the oppressed ones to file lawsuits and not cry gaitor tears.

[quote]
What you call invasion, others call it liberation. Have you not read about the mass graves and have you not seen how Shias were systematically being killed by him? More power to Shias now.
[/QUOTE]

what you call "liberation" many call it invasion :p

14

Changez, am I reading it right? Do you mean to say that Saddam did justice to Shias? Well if that's what you call blessing, more power to all the other Muslim leaders. May Saddam be the beacon of hope and light for them all.

And Changez, you can cry all the tears you wish. The only sad part is that for those you cry, gave no middle finger about Pakistan or Pakistanis. Brother, you need a visa to cry tears flor Arabs.

15

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by NYAhmadi: *
Changez, am I reading it right? Do you mean to say that Saddam did justice to Shias? Well if that's what you call blessing, more power to all the other Muslim leaders. May Saddam be the beacon of hope and light for them all.

And Changez, you can cry all the tears you wish. The only sad part is that for those you cry, gave no middle finger about Pakistan or Pakistanis. Brother, you need a visa to cry tears flor Arabs.
[/QUOTE]

ouch?? I meant to stop you from crying gaitor tears. I don't know what gives you idea that "Saddam did justice to Shias?" ... which line did you read? or are you reading between the lines?

16

Changez, Do I have to spell it out for you? You said Invasion I said Potatoe, so you were against Invasion, thus in favor of Potatoes, that being Saddam's rule. Got it? I hope so. So do you still think that Saddam's butchering of Shias is the kind of rule you would wish for in your Islamic countries? I hope not. Well, who the hell cares.

17

Is it any wonder why the US does not participate in the ICC?

So the widow of an Al-Jazeera reporter sues the US? Did the Al-Jazeera reporter KNOW THERE WAS A WAR GOING ON?

Holy crap people. A little rational thought is needed here. In a war zone, a soldier, or for that matter his commander is not responsible for the flight of every bullet. The "Laws of War" are to prevent intentional and grossly negligent behavior. To imagine that every shot hits it's mark perfectly is to imagine that humans are not human.

The net effect of this is that the lines between Saddam who INTENTIONALLY (key word here) murdered hundreds of thousands, tortured millions, engaged in ethnic cleansing and deprived every person in Iraq from basic human rights and the rest of the world will be so blurred that people cannot distinguish true war criminals from the act of simply waging war.

Belgium has a nice little cottage industry going here, employing lots of Belgian lawyers. Belgium needs to remember that the same US generals waged a much more brutal war, not once, but twice to liberate their country. Move NATO to Poland....

18

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by NYAhmadi: *
Changez, Do I have to spell it out for you? You said Invasion I said Potatoe, so you were against Invasion, thus in favor of Potatoes, that being Saddam's rule. Got it? I hope so. So do you still think that Saddam's butchering of Shias is the kind of rule you would wish for in your Islamic countries? I hope not. Well, who the hell cares.
[/QUOTE]

Sell this $hit to someone who thinks you are intelligent. Your crap talk of "with us or with terrorist" is not going to make me in favor of war. War was imposed on Iraq because of WMDs and not because he was evil dictator and US searched all over Iraq so far and found $hit.

19

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Is it any wonder why the US does not participate in the ICC?

So the widow of an Al-Jazeera reporter sues the US? Did the Al-Jazeera reporter KNOW THERE WAS A WAR GOING ON?....
The net effect of this is that the lines between Saddam who INTENTIONALLY (key word here) murdered hundreds of thousands, tortured millions, engaged in ethnic cleansing and deprived every person in Iraq from basic human rights and the rest of the world will be so blurred that people cannot distinguish true war criminals from the act of simply waging war.....
[/QUOTE]

OG let the "court" decide what was "intentional" during war and what not.

20

Thats exactly the point, there is nothing, nothing, preventing ANYBODY from filing a suit in this court. There is no threshold of evidence, and nothing to prevent nuisance suits on every military and political leader in the world.

A court to be effective has to have some integrity. Simply filing a suit and paying a small court fee is not enough of a threshold to prevent everybody in the world from suing each other. This is not a suit, it is a shake down and a political statement.

Just a thought, this reporter was there to cover a war. He knew the risks. How many reporters lost their lives in this war? At least a dozen? Guess what? War is dangerous. I feel a lot more sympathy for Iraqi citizens than somebody who was paid to be there and SOUGHT OUT a battlefield to enhance his own career.

And…

By the way the “Lawyer” who filed the complaint is:

“A left-wing candidate in Belgium’s parliamentary elections lodged a war crimes complaint Wednesday against U.S. Gen. Tommy Franks, the commander of American forces in Iraq.”

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20030514_1000.html
a left-wing POLITICIAN. Go figure…