http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/09/kaplan.htm
I have just come across this article by Kaplan: …
The tribal lands of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border reveal the future of conflict in the Subcontinent, along with the dark side of globalization
by Robert D. Kaplan
Anyone knows of reviews or analysis on this pretty dismal view of Pakistan written in September 2000, a full year before 9/11!
that guy impresses me a lot..hes been takin keen interest in pashtuns in afghanistan and pakistan…i read lawless frontier and his other new book “soldiers of god”
i thought it wud be full of bs but actually it was a very good book..some true facts about the pashtuns and thr way of living (pashtunwali) http://www.epinions.com/content_56231693956
old lahori if u have time read this book too ok..its really good.
SOLDIERS OF GOD by robert d kaplan
[This message has been edited by fakeer (edited April 17, 2002).]
Interesting...breakup of Pakistan eh?
[This message has been edited by RajputFury (edited April 18, 2002).]
i can smell discrimination here
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when lahori karachi walay adopt the indian culture (for example weddings ,bassant) stuff like thats. its ok ..but when pashtun talks about thr culture(pashtunwali) ..than thr questioned.
i can see whos breaking it…
give us freedom of speech will ya…
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[This message has been edited by fakeer (edited April 18, 2002).]
Fakeer, excellent point there on double standards of the establishment.
I belive Kaplan has made very good points...however he seems to have exageratted somewhat.....He could certainly argue that religious tensions and ethnic tensions are growing largely due to poverty...As is the case in Indonesia...where there are many separatist movements that developed once its economy took nose dive...I belive the biggest and most critical threat facing Pakistan is...illiteracy....I hope someone in power has the sense to treat education as a national security issue......
Hey I am all for Pushtunwali! Don’t talk about discrimination when your praising Kaplan who effectively called Pashtuns barbarians. I am not the one calling Punjab civilized, it is Kaplan, for whom you have given so much praise.
Lets be straight forward here: I would never consider Pashtuns, Baluchis, or Karachiites “below” me. Just read that article, am I referring to Pashtuns as Islamic fanatics, Baluchis as foolish tribals or Karachiites as simple minded destroyers of their own city??
He is spewing hatred to divide us as Pakistanis and NO I will not stand for that! He called the people of the Punjabi heartland : “a sophisticated people from the industrial and agricultural plain of Punjab – the Pakistani military and political elite.” I find that calling Punjabis to be sophisticated and other groups to be “tribals” (uncivilized) to be utterly false and disgusting.
Pashtunwali and all other cultures of Pakistan are distinct and wonderful but not ONE is better than another. Fakheer, read the article with an open mind in the context of Pakistan and you will see the difference between what I am saying and what venom Kaplan is spewing. Hey I am not the restricting any freedoms of speech, you assumed that I am against a certain culture, which not true at all. Just remember, that when the chips are down it won’t be Kaplan backing you up, but you better believe I will be – Pakistani first and foremost.
The eyelids of a Rajputs eyes are lowered only in death.
rajput fury u need to expalin wat u exactly meant in ur firts post ..cuz i'm dumb man...now that uve convinced me its all cool..
but the book was good..and buddy i being a pashtun agree with wat kaplan had said ..pashtuns some of them living in the villages (dehat) are barbaric ..i dont like that either ..but thats how life is thr ..i mean its 21st century but still they follow the great culture that was forwarded by our ancestors which is good indeed ..but some of them are just bad the thing thats called "BADAL" (REVENGE..) i just dont like that part..
OldLahori bhai,
First of all the article is old hat!!! Written in 2000.
Second of all he says…
the failure of a sophisticated people from the industrial and agricultural plain of Punjab <<
I was rolling in my seat !!
Since when did Punjabis became ‘Sophisticated’?
[quote]
Originally posted by fakeer:
rajput fury u need to expalin wat u exactly meant in ur firts post ..cuz i'm dumb man...now that uve convinced me its all cool..
but the book was good..and buddy i being a pashtun agree with wat kaplan had said ..pashtuns some of them living in the villages (dehat) are barbaric ..i dont like that either ..but thats how life is thr ..i mean its 21st century but still they follow the great culture that was forwarded by our ancestors which is good indeed ..but some of them are just bad the thing thats called "BADAL" (REVENGE..) i just dont like that part..
[/quote]
Fakeer bro, read up on that article very carefully, Kaplan is doing nothing but insulting everyone from Pakistan in one way or another. I know there are things that you don't like about Pashtun culture and its true that people in the villages are more backward but do you NEED an American (who happens to be Jewish) telling you that!?!
Ok so Pashtuns in villages are "barbaric," do you think that Punjabi or Sindhi villagers are any less backward?? See I wouldn't say something like that because that would mean "oh Pashtuns are like this and ALL other Pakis are not."
My first message was that I find it interesting that he (Kaplan) is calling for the breakup of Pakistan on Gupshup (supposed to be a Pakistani site) and no one cared enough to analyze his words. He has no right to talk about Pak when his predictions are proven false ONCE AGAIN.
Pakistan Forever..
The eyelids of a Rajputs eyes are lowered only in death.
Since when did Andhraites become courageous and honest??
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and
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The eyelids of a Rajputs eyes are lowered only in death.
Rajput Fury!!
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AND
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for ya!!!
The whole sub-continent knows Punjabis are loud and simple people.
Energetic, Friendly, Good natured, hard working undoubtedly.
Proud of their culture too.
Not too many acuse them of sophistication or Finesse as far as I know!!
I suggest you take this in right ‘Spirit’
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like a Punjabi. Half a Chicken along with the ‘Spirit’ would help!!!
when a nun covers herself,
she is devoting her life,
but when a muslim woman wears hijab,
she is opressed!?.
when a jew keeps beard,
he is practising relidion,
but when a muslim does so,
he is a terrorist!?.
pathans still sticking to their old ways
which is of religion are called barbarians?
and fakeer saab calls one thing to be bad
which is badal or badla ( revenge )!
may i ask why is that?
does Islam not allow u to take ur revenge?
prove it if i m wrong, and u call it bad
thing?
can the usa attack afghanistan and bring the
taliban to an end and want to kill a man, who
they accuse of being the masterminder of the
11th sept attacks on usa, and they cant show
the evidences against him publicly?
why?
it means they dont have any evidence against
him and still they are after him.
and yet that revenge is justifiable!?
then why a revenge of any pathan be bad?
and lets really not talk of who are
sophisticated and who is not, and that who
is proud of what and is that pride right or
not. as that will lead us in falling into
controvercies.
Pakistan Zindabad!
furthermore
about law and lawlessness
it was the sophisticated people
and the democratic elite people of our lovely
country who invaded the supreme court and
whatever they did there is known by everyone
what then? we close our eyes on that?
why? coz thats done by elite?
and on other hands, the tribal pathans follow
a jirga system, they even respect their enemy
and wont attack on him from the back.
in short they follow their laws even when it
comes to fights, rather than breaking laws
and calling theirself to be civilised!
if our supreme court is not left out and that
can be attacked by so called civil people,
then where to go asking for justice?
and those of you living in pakistan or those
who do watch P.T.V they might have watched
"News Night" usually at 9:40pm hosted by
"Talat Hussain"... the program about the
water distribuition issue, casted about a
month ago...
Andhra, what the heck, I’ll let it go but
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and
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This one your not winning
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The eyelids of a Rajputs eyes are lowered only in death.
[quote]
Originally posted by manimal:
**
pathans still sticking to their old ways
**
[/quote]
Please stop using old colonial elitest words like "pathan". It's Pushtun or Pukhtun. The word pathan should be banned from the dictionary of Punjabis and Mohajirs.
Pathan has not been used in the US media, either Pashtun or Pukhtun or Pushtun.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by manimal:
**Pathans still sticking to their old ways
which is of religion are called barbarians?
and fakeer saab calls one thing to be bad
which is badal or badla ( revenge )!
may i ask why is that?
does Islam not allow u to take ur revenge?
prove it if i m wrong, and u call it bad
thing?
my friend i am a pashtun ...and my 1st question is are u pashtun?? ...if u are than u wudve understand wat i said..
i was waiting for someone to say that "islam allows u to take revenge "...and i 10000% agree with that..
in islam we are taught that u shud take revenge who has harmed you ..not thr family.
in pashtun culture only men fights. even the enemy dont have the right to kill his enemie's wife or daughters ..if he does so ,his pashtunwali is questioned.he is not considered a pashtun ..( and thats something pashtun guy wud never want to hear) .
but my friend i'm not saying that u dont know pashtuns but u probably havent seen the wild wild west (the tribal areas) specially dara adam khel ..where ppl kill entire families (ie all the men)..
this is not revenge buddy this is illegal in islam..hope u understood wat ive written here.This sort of revenge i dun like and support but thats the way it is...
[This message has been edited by fakeer (edited April 22, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by fakeer (edited April 22, 2002).]
Faraz Mir, Are you Pashtun/Pakhtun?
If not, who are you to stop others from saying "Pathan"?
If any REAL Pashtun has any problems with the word then their wishes will be respected.
The eyelids of a Rajputs eyes are lowered only in death.
rajput fury ..
some people say the word “pathan” is a hate nam egiven by the british cuz of three unsuccessful rades on afghans (ie pathans)..
but the word pathans existed long time ago ..at the time when arabs came to this region the word pathan is actually from the word “BATAN” in arabic and that word means “frontline” they gave that name because of bravery and courageness of the pashtun qaum..