aap logon ke beech main meri know how to kaafi limited hai and i also suffer from the recency effect. :D
meri rae main tendulkar, but then that's just me :~)
Not that I agree with Saby’s statement made above but since I like proving you wrong many times, here is one more.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Khanzada: *
aap logon ke beech main meri know how to kaafi limited hai and i also suffer from the recency effect. :D
meri rae main tendulkar, but then that's just me :~)
[/QUOTE]
Ao Thakkur!!
Bhai Khanzada aap tu Dulhan ke tarhan Sarma rahay hain...itnay prem se "meri rae(ashweriya) main Tendulkar"..Hai!! Sadkay jaon!!(yaar aab Ban na kaar dena Ghussay main aa kaar)
Once again you forgot to read Saby’s statement where says “Lara has played so many match winnings innings in fourth innings of a test match and that too against the best team of the last decade.”
I am sure Keyword is ‘FOURTH INNING’ which you completely ignored. Now please try again and find out some more than one match winning innings as per Saby’s statement. I would also like to know about them. Yeah you proved me wrong once again :hehe:
Ps :- I think Lara is a great batsman as good as or may be better than Sachin on his day but Sachin can also be better than him on his day.
Well, i will try to find out his match winning knocks, in the fourth innings specially. The fact remains the same that Lara has risen to the occassion many times more than sachin.
^ oh now you gonna try ?? Please do so, I also wanna see so many of his match winning fourth innings against the best team of last decade.
Despite of Lara rising so many times on the occasion - It also remains a fact that Lara has not done justice to the amount of Talent he has.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asif_k: *
^ oh now you gonna try ?? Please do so, I also wanna see so many of his match winning fourth innings against the best team of last decade.
Despite of Lara rising so many times on the occasion - It also remains a fact that Lara has not done justice to the amount of Talent he has.
[/QUOTE]
you keep repeathign the 'Best team' phrase, kindly englithen me with an equally momentous innings from sachin in Fourth innings against any team, let alone australia ??
I agree LAra hasnt done justice to the talent he has, he is an under-achiever but if you have to bet on either of them to chase a big target in fourth innings, lara will get higher bets.
Saby - I keep repeating it because you claimed to have known about so many 4th inning match winning knocks by lara against the best team of the decade. I have seen only one. please tell us about other innings you know about.
As for Sachin’s 4th inning - here it is, only for you my friend 
**136 against Pakistan **](http://statserver.cricket.org/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1998-99/PAK_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/PAK_IND_T1_28JAN-01FEB1999.html)
This is one of the best innings I have ever seen by any batsman. When Sachin got out India still needed 17 runs to win with 3 wickets in hand. Unfortunately (for him and India) last 3 batsmen couldn’t make those 17 runs but Sachin’s inning was as good as any test innings I have seen.
Another Great inning from Sachin in the 4th winning is 119 Not out against England. Ask those who witnessed that innings
http://statserver.cricket.org/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/1990/IND_IN_ENG/IND_ENG_T2_09-14AUG1990.html
Now I know you are going to change your statement and ask for a Match winning 4th innings
Asif none of the two that you mentined above were match winning knocks.
LM - Did I claim that they were match winning knocks ?? Did Saby ask for match winning knocks ?? Here it is what he asked :-
"kindly englithen me with an equally momentous innings from sachin in Fourth innings"
Lara also has only one match winning knock in 4th innings. Why dont you define what do you mean by match winning knock.
Well, in the Pak vs India match in the world cup, Sachin proved to be a match winner (there is no doubt about that)! He was in great form that day, I remember he played a straight drive with such perfection that he even posed with his bat (for the camera) after playing the shot...
I would rank it as an Indian batsman's best match winning innings, but I still give more credit to those two guys (kaif and someone else) when they chased that massive total against England after being what, 5 down or something? That was a magnificent chase.
p.s. I also forgot to add, Lara is also a great batsman, but the poor guy needs more class batsmen in his team so that he doesnt have to be the lone wolf all the time... There are times when he just bats throughout the innings and sees the rest of the team at the other end get bowled out one by one.
Cant you understand the simple english word ‘Equally’??? When i asked for Equal, means as equal in stature and importance as Lara’s and thus also result wise. I m not changing my stattement, i m sticking to it. Yes Sachin has played great innings and i totally agree with above two you mentioned BUT the fact remains, they werent Enough.
Oh so now one Century is going to be the deciding factor between Sachin and Lara ?? If Lara is so good then why does he have poor average than Sachin and has scored 10 centuries less than him ?
You may have your own opinion and I may have my own. You dont have to laugh at someone else opinion and make false claims like you made when you said LARA has played many match winning knocks against the Aussies. Since you are not changing your Statements and I hope that you understand simple English. Please tell us about 'many other innings' you saw in your dreams.
Why are you contradicting yourself brother, you said this.
Now don’t tell me you didn’t say this, where in the world did you mention 4th innings.
Now why such double standards, you ask us to provide Lara’s match winning knocks against “BEST TEAM” Obviously meaning Australia, while you are putting Sachin’s match winning knocks against average teams like Pakistan.
Can you provide any of Sachin’s knocks against BEST TEAM aka Australia.
Lara has played 3 while Sachin has played only one match winning knock against Australia and that too in 3rd test in 2001 test series.
BTW - The two good knocks you have provided, none of those ended up in a win for India, thus its not a match winning knock.
India lost to Pak by 17 runs, they doesn’t make difference, if you lose by an inning or by 1 run, losing is losing.
Second match against England was a draw so that doesn’t help your cause.
Let me provide you with Sachin’s match winning knocks in 4th innings which resulted in India winning against all teams.
Here Sachin’s 4th inning totals in a scenario where India have won the match.
9* vs England in India
0* vs New Zealand in India
0 vs Australia in India
44* vs New Zealand in India
39 vs Zimbabwe in India
17 vs Australia in India
36* vs Zimbabwe in ZImbabwe
42 vs Zimbabwe in India
16* vs West Indies in India
Do you look at the pattern, all of them have been in India with the exception of one and not a single quality knock, not a single half century against a quality team.
Here are Lara’s 4th inning totals in which Windies have won against all teams around the world
28 vs England in West Indies
14* vs Australia in Windies
48* vs England in England
2 vs Australia in Aus
4 vs SL in WIndies
17 vs England in WIndies
153 vs Australia in Windies
60 vs Australia in Windies
80 vs SL in Windies
Look at his last 3 knocks, he played well under pressure and defeated quality teams.
BTW - Lara avgs 81 in 4th innings in winning situations while Sachin avgs 52 in winning situations and that in many not out situations against below avg teams.
Well, guys there maybe some cases where you cant really chalk out a comparison, without being fair to either one of the two. I think this situation is a good example of that case; if Lara is weak in an area that Tendulkar is strong, he might be stronger in another area where Tendulkar might be lacking.
I dont think its appropriate to compare them both, and in my opinion, they are match winners in sportsmanship, thats what I like the best about em. Their batting comes second to me.
IF you had cared to follow the discussion I was having with Saby you would have noticed that we discussing only the 4th innings performance of LARA and Sachin. Try reading the entire posts of discussion before jumping into the argument and making stupid assumptions.
Read the above and then you will know what I am talking about.
Hold on - Are you telling me that a bowling attack of Akram,Younis, Saqlain etc is inferior to that of Mcgrath, Fleming, Gillespie and Warne ?
Remember those words :hehe:
Hope that helps 3 match winning scores 155*, 79 and then 126.
So going by your logic - If Sachin is at the crease at the time India winning the game then it will be considerde as a match winning inning whether he scores 100 or 1, it wont make a difference, will it ? :hehe: Really great logic you have got here.
If you look at those games - then only one game was won by LARA’s Batting. the 60 score you pointed is hardly a match winning score when you are chasing 400+ runs - Take a look at the score card and see who scored century in that match to win the game for WI and as for the last one 80 not out check out the Man of the the match of that TEST . Yeah and so much for you all aeound theory - all the three innings were played in WI
So Lara cant score in 1st/2nd/3rd innings ??
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
Well, guys there maybe some cases where you cant really chalk out a comparison, without being fair to either one of the two. I think this situation is a good example of that case; if Lara is weak in an area that Tendulkar is strong, he might be stronger in another area where Tendulkar might be lacking.
I dont think its appropriate to compare them both, and in my opinion, they are match winners in sportsmanship, thats what I like the best about em. Their batting comes second to me.
[/QUOTE]
Are Wohi to baat ho rahi hai yaar - Lara is Lara, Sachin is Sachin and they are both great batsmen with different styles.
I will give you one example - Steve Waugh who is supposed to be one of the most dependeble batsman in the world in last 10 years hasn't had a single decent match winning Fourth innings score in any test.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Asif_k: *
Are Wohi to baat ho rahi hai yaar - Lara is Lara, Sachin is Sachin and they are both great batsmen with different styles.
[/QUOTE]
yep, thats what im saying too... and also I remember there was this one time where lara actually admitted that tendi was better than him, maybe he was humble, but still he said that.
And I thought question "Who is great ?" was answered final time during World Cup 2003.
This issue has been debated to death, even when the better match winner is being discussed, arguments turn full circle and we are back to arguing and pulling out match scorecards to prove who's a better batsman.
If everyone puts their national sensibilites and patriotism for one country and/or anti-feeling for any other aside, I think we all will agree that both are great batsmen in their own unique way.
As to who's been the better match winner for their side over the years, then anyone with half a cricketing brain knows very well who's rescued their team and seen them through to actually winning a match on more occasions between the two; and who's knocked up a big score but done a half-ass job and left it to some other player to chalk up points in the win bracket.
A match winner is one by whose performance the entire team eventually wins a match from a situation that didn't seem possible without that contribution. Scoring 75 not out and seeing ur side through from a situation of 60-5 to a target of 200 is a "match-winning" performance. Scoring 140-odd in a team total of 330 and then dismissing the opposition in the 220 region is a performance worthy of a man-of-the-match award. But doesn't necassarily constitute a match winner.