Lanut hou toum subb purr!!

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I see no sign of any remorse or any complaints by any pakis or so called muslims in this forum or in this world against the genocide being carried out by drunkard russians. Lunut hou toum subb purr…who are lost in the lust and ignorance. Here is an article from a concious no-muslim.

CRIME WITHOUT PUNISHMENT - RUSSIA IN THE CAUCASUS
by Eric Margolis - 22 Dec 95

One of the worst crimes of our time continues in the Caucasus mountains - while the world turns its eyes away.

While China is rightly condemned worldwide for its brutal repression of Tibet, and jailing of dissidents, Russia’s savagery in Chechenya
is utterly ignored.

A year ago this month, the Russian Army invaded the tiny mountain republic to crush the attempt by the 1.2 million, mainly Muslim,
Chechens to regain their independence after a century and a half of savage Russian colonial rule.

At the time, Russian Defense Pavel Grachev boasted he would `liquidate’ the uprising in a few days. What could a few thousand irregular
Chechen fighters do against 50,000 Russian troops, backed by armor, artillery, helicopter gunships and aircraft? Hadn’t the rebellious
Caucasian mountaineers learned their lesson when Stalin deported 80% of all Chechens to Siberian concentration camps in 1944?

Evidently not. Showing all their legendary courage, ferocity, and tenacity, lightly armed Chechen fighters stopped the Russian Army,
troops of the Interior Ministry, and KGB units, in their tracks. Proclaiming a Jihad, or holy war, the Chechen mujihadin defeated Russian
tanks and armored fighting vehicles in the streets of the capitol, Grozny, with only Molotov cocktails and hand-held RPG anti- tank
rockets.

While the western world celebrated Christmas,1994, Russian forces used heavy artillery, massed rocket batteries, and carpet bombing, to
grind Grozny and any Chechen village that resisted, to rubble. Over the past year, at least 45,000 Chechens, mainly civilians, have been
killed by the Russians. Moscow admits to losing 2,300 soldiers; the true figure is likely above 6,000. Human rights groups accuse the
Russians of widespread torture, mass executions, reprisals, and collective punishment in Chechnya.

This week, Chechen mujihadin launched fierce attacks on their Russian occupiers aimed at disrupted phony elections staged by Moscow
to install a Chechen puppet communist regime, led by Quisling named Zavgayev. Chechen still strongly support their elected president,
Gen. Dzhokar Dudayev, who leads the national resistance from the nation’s wild southern mountains.

Dudayev ousted the communist regime in 1991 in a freeÔ the decomposing Soviet Union. Though other republics, like Ukraine,
Uzbekistan or Lithuania, successfully quit the USSR, not a single nation recognized free Chechenya. It was too remote, too unimportant.

Russia was determined to hold on to Chechnya: it controls important oil pipeline running from Azerbaijan. Freedom for Chechenya could
break Moscow’s hold on the entire strategic Caucasus region. The KGB tried three times to assassinate Gen. Dudayev. When these
attempts failed, KGB mounted a covert invasion of Chechenya in summer, 1994, using regular Russian troops masquerading as
Chechen. The Russians were humiliatingly routed. Yeltsin’s `Bay of Pigs’ cost US $650 million - some of it supplied by western aid
donors. Six months later, Moscow openly invaded Chechenya.

Chechens are used to Russian invasions. Tsarist Russia first began conquering the Muslim emirates of the Caucasus in the 1830’s. The
great Chechen leader, Imam Shamil, lead a magnificent, 29-year resistance to Russia’s armies. The Chechen were finally overwhelmed
by Russian numbers. But they rebelled anew in 1863, during the Polish revolt. In 1877, after which Russia slaughtered 60% of the total
population. In 1917, and in 1920.

No people anywhere on earth fought so long or hard against tyranny and colonialism as the Chechen - and none has suffered so much.
Stalin attempted genocide by sending almost the entire Chechen nation to the Gulag, including the parents of the current leader, Dzhokar
Dudayev, and those of the renowned mujihadin commander, Shamil Basaev, a true `saif ul-Islam’ (sword of Islam). A few Chechen
survived.

Their offspring, the children of the concentration camps, are now fighting Russian rule.

Bloody battles raged in Chechenya all this week. Chechen mujihadin seized two major cities and held them against the full might of
massed Russian firepower. Moscow poured more troops, tanks, guns and aircraft into Chechnya - so far, to no avail. But how long can a
few mountaineers, no matter how valiant and fearless, fight mighty Russia, with 149 million people and the world’s second largest ground
forces?

The world turns its back on Chechenya. President Clinton gave Moscow a free hand in Chechenya, in exchange for Russian acquiescing
to the farcical American invasion of Haiti. No one wants to anger Moscow by supporting tiny Chechenya. Not even Islamic nations, who
have totally ignored the Jihad in Chechnya. The nearby Turks and Iranians are so frightened by Moscow they dare not supply the
Chechen even a few bullets. The Chechen’s sole source of arms and supplies are those captured from Russian forces.Ô `independent’
Georgia and Azerbaijan, to cut off any potential supplies for the mujihadin. Anti-insurgent techniques perfected in Afghanistan, where the
Soviets slaughtered 1.5 million people, are being used again in Chechnya.

What can the world do? Cut off all financial and technical aid to Moscow. Boycott Russian exports of oil, vodka, and raw materials. Arm
the Chechens. Keep denouncing Russian atrocities until Moscow is compelled by world outrage to leave Chechnya -just as it was finally
forced to quit Afghanistan.

In Chechnya, `democratic’ Boris Yeltsin and his generals are committing crimes worthy of Josef Stalin. The world’s silence is shameful
and sickening.

copyright Eric Margolis 1995

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Dear S Malik,

“Lunut hou toum subb purr...who are lost in the lust and ignorance.”

These are a bit too strong a words, and insulting to many. It is true that Russians are suppressing the Chechens by using excessive force. That is the history of communism for you! It is hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Stalin killed 4 times as many Russians as Hitler killed Jews. To Russians, Islam is not a perceived threat. But that is beside the point. If you are sympathetic to the cause of the Chechens their religion should not matter. They could be Pagans, and you should feel the same way as you do now. Pakistan is not in any position to do anything other than raise its voice in the international arena. That I believe is being done at the appropriate level, and at an appropriate setting.

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I agree..very strong and just because you think we don't care because there is nothing that you can read on an Internet discussion board.

S. Malik sir..it isn't what we say but what we do.

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i agree...........wow u really made a point there ..keep up the good work and i wish u the best of luck!
Emaan

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I agree, your choice of words were too harsh Malik. What do you expect Muslims to do? Stand up in arms against Russia, which is still a formidable force.

As for me personally, I really don't care all that much because the situation does not affect my life personally.

Its also interesting that when others harm Muslims we tend to raise our voices against 'WESTERN AGRESSION'. Why is it that we do not voice these concerns when Muslim terrorists killing innocent people, whether they be in Africa, Israel, or anywhere else.

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I Khan
You said "As for me personally, I really don't care all that much because the situation does not affect my life personally"

This is what I am up aginst, your kind only looking for "what's in it for me" One day I hope you come across personally the similar sufferings being suffered by our Muslim brotherd and then I will ask you "what's in it for me".

Its about time your kind wakes up to the reality.

Muslims are being supressed everywhere in this world and if nothing I will will at least raise my voice against it...the same way I did about Nicragua, Hondouras, Gutemala where innocent peoples have been ad are being supressed.

Please send a email to every leader in the world to express your anger. The same way the Indians in USA did during the conflict in Kashmir recently and Clinton acted for them.
Wake up, please!!

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Malik,

You appear to stand for what's best for humanity yet you present your view and your case in such a negative fashion that nobody wants to see the good in you.

Notice the number of responses and the fact that the majority have complained about your "harsh" words. Have you made the impact you intended to make with your message?

Have you accomplished any good or have you managed to merely antagonize more people against yourself?

What's the saying....."honey attracts more bees..."......

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NY Ahmadi - for Russians Islam is a percieved threat. That is precisely why Moscow has embarked on one of the largest propaganda campaigns to convince there citizens that Islamic fundamentalists are embarking on a mission to overtake their country. They justify their bombings and the killings of innocent civilians by citing this percieved threat. They use the same language when addressing diplomats from foreign countries who criticize their massacre in Chechyna - they are saying "look, if we don't stop these bearded Mullahs, they'll be in your backyard in Europe than America tommorrow, we are doing you a favor by killing them off." If Chechyna was 20 years ago, the US would have sent troops and armaments into Chechyna by now - in fact there was a country very similar to Chechyna 20 years ago, its name was Afghanistan - where Islamists were fighting for their freedom from a Russian puppet government.

As far as your comments regarding communism go...the same can be said for capitalism. Violence perpetuated in the name of capitalism is even more acute and horrifying than that which was enforced by communist governments. The history of US aggression is a great example. Whereby hundreds of thousands of Africans were taken captive, kidnapped and forced into slave labor, where Native Indians were executed, killed outright, where guerillas were trained to operate in death squads throughout Latin America (and still are), than you got the abuses and persecution and murder of innocent people in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and in various countries throughout Asia and Africa, all in the name of ideology. To that you can add the indentured child labor and importation of environmentally unfriendly factories all in the name of capitalist development. The communists don't look so bad when pitted against the US. Both have done there damage in the name of ideology.

S Malik - its not that we don't care. Its just that sometimes you feel a bit helpless when you hear about this stuff. What do you do? It puts some people into paralysis, knowing whatever they do...little will be done. Thats the problem. We can write letters to politicians (who don't really care or who can't really do anything) - perhaps the best we can do is voice our concerns to others, make people aware and pray for those who are losing their lives and homes in Chechyna. I feel alot the same way, when I think of whats happening in Iraq today...it disgusts me, but its frustrating...what can I do but ask Allah for His help?

Achtung ;)

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Muzna
Administrator

As a adminstrator have you ever raised a conscious issue on this forum? Harsh words!! Today's Muslims are what Iqbal said "Nayee tahzeeb kay yeah gunday unnday hain" Their existance as he quite rightly concluded is in the gutters.

The sick Muslim kind of breed needs a shock treatment, so that they can see the reality.

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Maliiiiiiikkkkkkk saaaaaaab what you want us to dooooooooo....rock our brains out on this issue...what wil happen...everyone will say it terrible russians should stop what they doing...and NOTHING else will be done..and nothing else can be done...people here are soo damn lazzy they start something about improving pakistan and that doesnt get done how can this russian-checnian thing...discussing something thatwill make no difference at all what soo ever is waste of time...and it wont even produce any results on what are the people going through in that place...aallah sub ko soochney ki himat de amin...

Jaawan

Till next time*K_I_S_S*

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Dear Achtung,

“NY Ahmadi - for Russians Islam is a perceived threat.”

Why did not they then make the same fuss about other independent republics? Why Chechnya alone? Its more strategic for them, e.g., than Uzbekistan. It is their “dream pipeline to central Asian oil reserves”. Pakistan has the same “dream pipeline” coming through Afghanistan into Pakistan, hence becoming strategically important for consumer nations. In other words, over taking Iran in that respect. Just to add one more thing. Communists even suppressed their own religion (eastern orthodoxy) for over 70 years. Communists do not view religions as a self determined right, among many other elements.

“…its name was Afghanistan - where Islamists were fighting for their freedom from a Russian puppet government.”

They still are. Now the fight is against oppression, which Ahmad Shah Masood and his forces are determined to do.

“The history of US aggression is a great example. Whereby hundreds of thousands of Africans were taken captive, kidnapped and forced into slave labor, where Native Indians were executed, killed outright,…………”

You unintentionally used the wrong country. It was not USA, it were “English Colonies”. The slave trade flourished under the Dutch, the English. Read a little about the civil war, that was the beginning of the federation. USA has come a long way in making things right, and they have a long way to go. So do communists. But it was the USA that saved the world twice, and true there are some wars which cannot be justified. Hey 2 out of 3 ain’t bad.

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I think every one is forgetting what "protest" means!! and what lobbying means (jews in USA eg)
If everyone of us on this forum spends few minutes and sends emails to Clinton, Yelstin and other leadres of the so called democratic coutries, I can assure you it will help. Just do not give up. Fight for the just cause. Keep your hopes alieve for a just world.

NYAhmedi...you are wrong when you say America saved the world twice, you mean they almost destroyed it twice.

For quite a few of us on this forum the American dream sems to have inflicted heavy damage to their brains and they have forgotten that there were Pakis Muslims!!) before. Look at the jews in the USA, they are everywhere, mostly above you and they provide every support imagineable to the need jews(!!) throughout the world....and look at the Muslims....I shed tears on their misery, a self inflicted punishment.

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s malik,

easy way to answer your question....use the search engine on the site and enter "Muzna"

take care and good luck to you.

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Dear S Malik,

“For quite a few of us on this forum the American dream sems to have inflicted heavy damage to their brains and they have forgotten that there were Pakis Muslims!!) before. Look at the jews in the USA, they are everywhere, mostly above you and they provide every support imagineable to the need jews(!!) throughout the world....and look at the Muslims....I shed tears on their misery, a self inflicted punishment.”

Are you admiring the way Jews have organized and made a name for themselves? I agree with you then. Everyone should try to learn from them and try to delineate their audacity and courage. Here in the US, they are less than 10 % of the population, and have very strong hold on the economy, far above their percentage of the total population. You know what the reasons are for that. I think you do. Theirs was “never again”. They will not let anyone ever put them into concentration camps again. The problems with Pakistanis are not the same. They are doing that to themselves, and “American Dream” is not responsible for the damage done to their brains. American Pakistanis contribute more to Pakistan than some groups that are operating like a bull in a china shop. Go ask the terrorists running loose and killing people in the mosques if they have ever even heard of a place called Chechnya. Getting our own house in order, before lobbying internationally may take us where you want us to head. Until that happens, let’s not compare us with the Jews. Before becoming a dominant force on the Globe, Jews went through a lot of hardships. They are even at peace with their worst adversaries (Germans) and even making headway with the Palestinians, while we are still stuck at Kashmir. If you want to emulate them, start with the basics. Get your own house (Pakistan) in order. Make it a place for all to live peacefully. Then compare yourself with them. Until then, keep dreaming. There is nothing wrong with that.

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As a jew said over the situation of Iraq that do not blame America or any one else, blame Muslims for not being Muslims. I think it appllies for all the Muslims who are being oppressed.
Secondly Ikhan, my friend why do you have to write that Muslim terrorists why not call their nationality rather than their religion. Have you ever heared West saying " The Fed bldg. in Oklahoma was bombed by a Christian terrorist" or Thousands and thousands of Jews were killed by a Christian leader named Hitler" or In Bosinia Christians slaughtered thier Muslims neighbors"

I hope I made my point here.

[Sultan]

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NYAhmedi...its is very true what I have said about American dream. If my country was a place worth living my friend I would have been living there together with you, but I am afraid it is not. And that's why I do not care about such a land where the Muslims have gone to sleep and is one of the most corrupt land in the world...USA wants it to be in this position and do not want it to stand on its legs.
But I am all for the brave Muslims of small country called Chechnya who have stood up to drunkard russians for centuries. I curse all those who have shown no sign of discontent towards the genocide being carried out against the only real Muslims left in the world. Isn't it shameful, disgraceful, that Chechens had to appeal to Clinton and Pope as they clearly stated that Muslims (Bastards) are indifferent to their plight. Only Taliban have spoken out against russians and would like to fight along with them..whereas you beloved Masood is getting help form the west and the russians to kill Talibans. How devilish they may have been casted in our eyes but my heart from now on will go to Taliban. lanut hou unn subb purr, especially the so called Muslims in this world, those who see Muslims being slaughtered and look the other way. Inshallah tomorrow it will be their turn and will I look the other way!!

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But offcourse...if I were to encourage people to take action, I would not curse them out :)

We want to create a presence...yet we fail to realize that we have never analyzed the delivery of our message and decided to deliver it anyways...that delivery makes a great impact on whether your thoughts get transmitted the way you intended them to..and that takes keeping your recipient in consideration and how they may react or perceive your message..which may be heavily tainted by the manner of its delivery.

and thats what happened with this post..personally when any person who I dont know decides to start his note or sentence to me by cursing me out..to me that person has lost all credibility. If you have a good message try to spread it in a responsible way too.

And...do not assume that if people are not typing away for an issue they are not doing anything about it.

A wise person once said... choose your words very wisely :)

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Fraudz
Wise words indeed, what took you so long. You are the third moderator who has heeded the knowledeg of wisdom upon my thread, instaed of contributing towards it. I don't care a nickle of your garbage. My opinion remains as at the start of my thread.

Being a wise guy as you try to dish outyourself to be...you may also have heard "latoun kay bhout baatoun say nahen mantay"

Read some of Iqbal's poems that may help you all towards your attitude that prevails on this forum.

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should i contribute towards it by giving lannat to everyone and posting a news article from some journal? sure I can do it :slight_smile:

You are correct that you dont care for a nickel for my garbage, i dont expect you to.
Unfortunately, i dont care for your treasure to be worth a penny

http://www.pak.org/gupshup/biggrin.gif

Anyways this thread is not worth my time. btw I prefer our prophets sayings over the rants of a poet.