Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
5abi, i think dawn's latest news link quotes musharraf mentioned in his address to the nation that 2000 people surrendered before, and 1200 were rescued during the op.
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
1200 ppl came out after siege and how many were still in there while the op was carried cos what was said was they are being held hostage
source of this number becaue i cannot find it anywhere, neither on TV media nor print media
My point, if you were really following this then you would've heard these numbers. After the Op the number is not in hundreds, it was before the final Op.
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
Mushy’s speech to the nation 
2000+1200 = 3200 people (kids, women and others), where did they all go? Where were they relocated to because none of the TV media caught them being relocated anywhere else. The compound is empty.
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
My point, if you were really following this then you would've heard these numbers. After the Op the number is not in hundreds, it was before the final Op.
actually i wasnt following this saga day in and out, hence my question
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
here's the Mush quote from dawn:
He also said that the operation was to start at midnight but was delayed for several hours at the risk of heavier losses by the army. Even so, Government’s strategy paid off in as much as about 2,000 inmates of the Lal Masjid complex escape before the launch of the operation while another about 1,300 were rescued during the operation.
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
here's the Mush quote from dawn:
He also said that the operation was to start at midnight but was delayed for several hours at the risk of heavier losses by the army. Even so, Government’s strategy paid off in as much as about 2,000 inmates of the Lal Masjid complex escape before the launch of the operation while another about 1,300 were rescued during the operation.
queer, r u impressed by the operation carried out by Pakistan?
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
man imho it was a lose-lose situation once they had chosen to go for a long drawn-out media-covered op instead of a quick surgical one.
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
thanks for the list risc
I used it to update Wikipedia
check it out,
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
I had a quick read of update, Think I should clarify it a bit:
[quote]
The Army reported that it found cashes of Anti-tank mines, anti-personnel mines, Mortars, Russian made RPG and Chinese variant RPG-7. They also found a large supply of pineapple grenades, and armor piercing grenades. Also found were a large supply of AK-47 rifles, three to five .22 caliber rifles, RPD light and RPK-74 machine guns, Dragunov sniper rifles, SKS rifles and millions of rounds for these guns. They also found crates full of Molotov cocktails and petrol bombs ready to be used.
[/quote]
RPG-7 (common rocket) is made by both Russia and China in large quantities. Couldn't decide which one, Chinese version Type-69 has a scope. I couldn't quite tell hence put either down. I think it was a bog standard RPG-7 now which is flooded everywhere in Pakistan/Afghanistan.
Grenades where pineapple, and RGD-5 again common place. Also noticed some which looked like smoke grenades.
At least one explosive vest
The .22 calibre rifles to me looked more like air powered, cant see them being very effective in combat. So might have been there for a while.
Molotov cocktails are the same as "petrol bombs"
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
Well, i pray that something good can come out of this. I hope that Mullahs actively try to avoid all violence and Pakistan gets a government that takes care of its people.
But one can only wish.
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
two children were among 69 bodies buried on Thursday**
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
Good article on the issue by Nazir Naji
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
It seems that some people have made their habit to compare actions of these Shaitans of Lal Building with May 12 events in Karachi. Can’t these people use some intelligence? Can’t these people see the differences between political conflicts and revolt against the state? Can’t these people see differences between imposition of ideological with force on masses and fighting between politician parties so that they can intimidate each other and by their propaganda attract votes of masses? Can’t these people see the difference of intimidating and forcing the masses (as these retarded Mullahs were doing) and attracting the masses to their party (as political parties do when they fight each other)?
*What happened in Karachi on 12th May were political killings, and many parties were involved [especially MMA (most likely JI activists), PPP, PPI, ANP etc on one side and MQM on other. Seems that PML(N), PML(Q) and TI were not involved in big way]. Thus, one cannot blame one party or another for 12th May killings ('fasad'), and propagandas could not work in a city that has highest education to think and differentiate truth from lies. Probably government is not initiating high level enquiry because once enquiry would start, many political parties and politicians would be exposed (and would become insecure politically) and in present political situation where government is trying to bring some parties closer to their agenda (especially PPPP and ANP) against MMA in NWFP as well as other oppositions in Pakistan, enquiry was probably causing unrest amongst these parties. *
Probably not holding any enquiry on 12th May are the reason PPPP is not going openly against Musharraf government and ANP after 12th May called off their strike call that could have had impact and disturbance on transport system in Karachi. As for MQM, I believe they are quite comfortable and confidence that May 12th would not effect their vote bank, especially in Karachi, as most of their voters in Karachi know the truth and have seen lot of bad days (and discrimination by other parties against them) and present peaceful days along with concrete developments on ground, these voters know what to do during voting time.
Political killings are happening in Pakistan since long time. Ayub Khan started political killings in Karachi after winning rigged Presidential election. In 1970-71 Bhutto declared that he would break the legs of any political talk with Awami League. Later Awami league challenged the Army on political ground, Army acted against them in big way killing many in East Pakistan, followed by Awami league and Jamaat Islami killing each other indiscriminately. In Karachi colleges, ‘Jamiat Tuleba Islam’ (JTI) did political intimidation and even killings in big way, such that many colleges and University became no-go area for anyone oppose to JTI (that lasted until APMSO kicked their ass out of most colleges and University again using force). Well, JTI is doing same today, intimidating and killing their opponents, in colleges and universities of Lahore and other part of Pakistan (outside Sindh)
Then Z A Bhutto during his rule, established FSF (Federal security force) to kill his political opponents, and sent army to crush elected government of Balochistan, resulting in armed resistance in Balochistan between Army and Baloch (Mengal plus Marri) tribes, that started in 1973 and lasted until 1977. (Earlier, in 50s and 60s also Pakistan government used army in Balochistan to surpass tribal revolts against state but Bhutto action was political action, where Bhutto wanted to rule Balochistan through governor rule (without winning election there), and thus his action in Balochistan was nothing to do with tribal revolt but political killings (and it is estimate that 10s of thousands Balochs were killed there along with thousands of Pakistan army men). For his action, Bhutto also used air force to bomb Baloch fighters, extensively.
In Zia time, Zia killed many Sindhi (and some Muhajir) supporters of PPP on political grounds in interior Sindh. In Zia time, political clash happened in Karachi between PPI, JI and PPP on one side and MQM on other side, resulting in many killings. In BaiNazeer and later Nawaz time, they both started action against MQM in Karachi killing many innocent Muhajirs in the name of MQM affiliations (according to some estimates, both together killed over 10,000 Muhajirs in Karachi during these operations). There were other political killings in Karachi when MQM found no one could oppose them in militancy, they split and started killing one another. All above political unrest kept going on for years in Karachi, Sindh and Balochistan.
This 12th May event compare to past events was one day political clash and looking at Pakistan political history, there was nothing unusual about that. In reality, Karachi has seen the most peaceful period after long time during last 8 years, after President Musharraf took over. During these last 8 years, Karachi has also seen unprecedented developments in provision of civil amenities and things are getting better day by day. The biggest past problem in Karachi was water that has adequately taken care of. Once electricity problem is sorted out, Karachi would become one of the best places to live again.
These above political events and killings cannot be compared with actions in Wana, tribal areas, or Lal building (so-called Lal Masjid). The actions and killings of political parties what they do to each other cannot be compared with actions and killings of Taliban, AL-Qaida, or Lal building Shaitans. There is no conflict or political differences here. It is matter of imposition of ideological difference by force on others, where one minority group of people (misguided terrorist Shaitans) in the name of Islam wants to impose their will over majority others (Muslims of Pakistan) by force and are working against the state (Pakistan itself). For these Shaitans, Pakistan is not an independent country but they want Pakistan to become a sacrificial goat for their misguided Islam. [They do not know that Pakistanis would InshaAllah never allow these Shaitans in their evil schemes, not at any cost].
Shaitans of Lal building started their ‘Shaitanic dance (dance of iblis)’ in Islamabad for too long. These land grabbers, thieves, kidnappers, terrorists, traitors, and murderers left nothing unturned to challenge the writ of the government of Pakistan and government kept tolerating them (and that I believe was bad about the government). These Shaitans deserved to get bombed and killed in the hole they were in, and all area where they were should have been levelled to ground long time ago, but fortunately for them Shaitanic retards, government kept trying their best to bring sense to them. These people were not doing anything that one can say political moves or Islamic moves, but these Shaitans were spreading fitna in Pakistan and were security risk to Pakistan. To compare the actions of these Shaitanic people with political conflicts and lives loses due to political conflicts is completely wrong.
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
Very intelligent post!! I am short listing it for my ‘bestoftheyear2007’ list. :k: :k: :k:
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
Well said Saleem. I have disagree with you in the past on many things, but on this you are 100% right. We have to fight these fanatic terrorists wherever we find them.
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
Everyone should listen to Zahid Hussain on AAj TV right now.
Great observation of what he saw in lal masjid visit. They were not ordinary students but hardened terrorists. If we had let them off, we would have seen bloodshed on the streets of Islamabad.
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
Have some biscuit with your 
Re: Lal Masjid Siege Thread - Operation Silence (merged)
Agreed! Not just on the streets of Islamabad, we would have seen horrible incidents all over Pakistan.