Lal masjid/ISI drama: 5 Chinese kidnapped

Re: Lal masjid/ISI drama: 5 Chinese kidnapped

it isnt appeasement, it what pakistan needs to do. the turmoil caused by conflicting cultures needs to be tackled. a steady base for people and the country to concentrate on development.
the taliban mentality is nonsensicle and no civilised government can entertain such a mentality. the taliban politics threat is not a possibility in pakistan. what lalmasjid has shown (in some of their missions) is what pakistan is failing on, on the moral side. corrupt police, brothels, rapes, injustice, uncontrolled media exposure and counterfeit media etc etc. all in all these things are having a negative effect. the solution is counter these as much as possible.

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For example, the mixed marathon... Many people have no problem with it and they say there is nothing unislamic about it..
On the other hand, religous extremists are offended by it and are willing to use force to undermine it..
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this is not an extremist complaint. many/most pakistanis will have a problem with it. personally i dont have a problem with this marathon, but think seperate marathons may suit pakistan better.

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You have Lal Masjid brigade saying CD's are unislamic, but then what about the vast majority who say its not..
Point is, who defines what Islamic... The Lal Masjid? The Taliban?
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the government defines what is islamic and what of these unislamic acts they can deter.
one of the problems at the moment is bollywod has run away from the traditional south asian film ethics. now there are no film ethics. regulated pakistani movies for pakistani people, perhaps?
and how long is pakistan going to allow counterfeiting on such a scale to go on?

Re: Lal masjid/ISI drama: 5 Chinese kidnapped

So what's the latest on this new military "buildup"? I hear the Lal Masjid fanatics are ready to announce Jihad if those guys don't clear away. Its been some days. Have they been smoked out yet?

Re: Lal masjid/ISI drama: 5 Chinese kidnapped

A cloaked approval for “action” against Lal Masjid from Dawn:

Continued stand-off](http://www.dawn.com/2007/06/29/ed.htm)

THE Lal Masjid stand-off has now begun to affect Pakistan’s relations with the outside world. On Wednesday, the Chinese government called upon Mr Aftab Sherpao to take steps to ensure the safety of Chinese nationals in his country. The visiting interior minister said in reply that his government would take more “rigorous” actions for the safety of Chinese nationals and institutions in Pakistan. Beijing’s justifiable concern followed the kidnapping last week of a number of Chinese, including women, at an acupuncture clinic wrongly referred to as a massage parlour. Regrettably, this is not the first time that Chinese experts working in Pakistan have been harmed. In October 2004, two of the Chinese working at the Gomal Zam dam site in South Waziristan were kidnapped by the Abdullah Mahsud group. The subsequent commando action secured the release of one of the two Chinese engineers, while the other one was killed.** The one-legged monster, Abdullah**, a Guantanamo Base returnee, is still at large. Last year three Chinese were killed and 13 injured in an ambush in Hub, while in 2004 three Chinese were killed in a bomb blast at Gwadar. The latest incident, however, occurred right in the federal capital and, besides causing diplomatic embarrassment for Pakistan, has led to the flight of a large number of Chinese from Islamabad to Lahore. Some have returned to China.

Ambiguity surrounds the government’s policy with regard to the Lal Masjid stand-off. The Rangers keep being deployed and withdrawn, but it seems unlikely that they will get an order to storm the mosque. Inside it is the little “kingdom of heaven” run by two weird characters masquerading as ulema, who have at their disposal young boys and girls ready to die at their bidding. Their interpretation of Islam is laughable because they have resorted to outright crimes, like trespass, kidnapping, beating and humiliation of their victims. They have also threatened suicide bombings throughout the country — all this in the name of Islam. They may not be aware of it, but they have made a joke not only of themselves but of Islam itself. They also know that a government crackdown is unlikely because no government would want to open fire on a mosque, even if those who have barricaded themselves inside it are using the sacred precincts of the mosque for criminal activity, self-glorification and flaunting their non-existent piety.

The government is in a bind. If it orders a crackdown, there will be heavy casualties on both sides, and the authorities will be accused of human rights violations and excessive force to solve a problem that could have been tackled by negotiations. If it does not take action, it will continue to be accused of inaction and of failing to enforce its writ even in the federal capital. That leaves negotiations as the only way out of the crisis. However, despite prolonged negotiations in which the authorities often seemed to have surrendered to the Lal Masjid clerics, the stand-off continues. What is plain is that neither the liberal opinion nor the religious lobby is prepared to play a mediatory role because both are enjoying the government’s predicament on this score. The authorities have to be cautious if they decide to use force, since an unthinking crackdown will play into the hands of the extremist lobby and prove counterproductive.

Re: Lal masjid/ISI drama: 5 Chinese kidnapped

and here’s another good read from today’s dawn:

Threat of Talibanisation](http://www.dawn.com/2007/06/29/op.htm#1)

By Javid Husain
THE National Security Council in its meeting held on June 4 was reportedly briefed on the menace of creeping Talibanisation which, according to the high-level presentation made on the occasion, could pose a serious threat to national security.

It was pointed out that the foreign occupation of Afghanistan, Pakistan’s alliance with the US in the war on terror, long-festering disputes in the Muslim world and a growing feeling among the Muslims that they were under attack from the West had contributed to growing militancy in the region.

While referring to the growing extremism and militancy in Fata and the adjoining settled districts, the presentation called for immediate action to eliminate this phenomenon before it was too late. The briefing coming from a military regime was full of irony, contradictions and half-truths. It has become fashionable in Pakistan to lay the blame for Talibanisation at the doorsteps of the Afghan jihad against the Soviet occupation. This is only partially true. Pakistan, aided by the United States, many Muslim countries and other members of the international community, did extend valuable assistance to the Afghan Mujahideen in their struggle to liberate their homeland.

Both the Afghan jihad and the assistance provided to it were justified as a historical necessity to stop the Soviet advance into the heartland of the Muslim world. This had started with the occupation of Central Asia by the Czarist Russia in the 19th century.

While the Afghan jihad was crowned with success with the Soviet withdrawing in 1989, Pakistan had to face the repercussions of its support to it in the form of extremism, militancy and the easy availability of guns. The end of the Afghan jihad also coincided with the start of the freedom movement in Indian-occupied Kashmir.

For well-known reasons, the trend towards growing extremism and militancy in Pakistan was maintained as the freedom struggle in Indian-held Kashmir, which was essentially indigenous in character, gathered momentum.

As if this were not enough, Pakistan was also dragged into the civil war in Afghanistan, which ensued after the fall of the Najibullah regime in 1992 and led to the emergence of the Taliban in 1994. The support that the Taliban received from official and non-official quarters in Pakistan in their fight against the regime of Burhanuddin Rabbani and the forces of Ahmad Shah Masood had far-reaching implications for Pakistan’s internal peace and harmony.

There is little doubt that this support, more than anything else, promoted extremism and militancy in the country, brutalised Pakistani society through encouraging the kalashnikov culture, and sowed the seeds of creeping Talibanisation which threatens Pakistan now.

The policy of support to the Taliban was championed in Pakistan by a powerful section of the establishment both on the military and civilian sides (including most of the leadership of the foreign ministry at that time), who lacked the vision or the foresight to anticipate its adverse repercussions on Pakistan’s internal situation.

However, considering that the operational aspects of Pakistan’s Kashmir and Afghanistan policies have remained firmly in the hands of the military establishment since the days of General Ziaul Haq, it would have to shoulder most of the blame for this ill-considered support for the Taliban. Predictably, this policy of support was continued by the government of General Musharraf till the American ultimatum forced a U-turn soon after the events of 9/11.

The problem of creeping Talibanisation, thus, can be directly traced to Pakistan’s policy of support to the Taliban pursued from 1995 to 2001 with scant regard to its dangerous repercussions for Pakistan at the international, regional and national levels. It is, therefore, ironical now to listen to sermons from General Musharraf and his supporters on the dangers of Talibanisation for Pakistan’s security and on the benefits of moderation and enlightenment for our country.

The risks involved in our pro-Taliban policy for Pakistan’s internal situation could have been minimised if we had a stable and vibrant democratic set-up, capable of filtering out negative repercussions through vigorous political debate and free and fair elections thus allowing the moderate tendencies of the people of Pakistan to prevail. Instead, during most of the 1990s Pakistan was saddled with unstable civilian governments and, after October 12, 1999, by a military dictatorship.

The civilian governments lacked the political strength to control these negative repercussions because of their inherent instability and also because of the autonomous character of the military establishment which effectively controlled Pakistan’s Afghanistan and Kashmir policies.

The situation worsened after the military takeover of October 1999 as the two mainstream moderate political forces were sidelined by General Musharraf’s government. The resultant vacuum was filled by extremist religious forces. Little wonder that we see in the country extremism on the ascendancy and creeping Talibanisation.

The briefing in the National Security Council, therefore, told only half the story when it attributed growing Talibanisation in Pakistan to the foreign occupation of Afghanistan, Pakistan’s alliance with the US in the war on terror, long-festering disputes in the Muslim world and a growing feeling among the Muslims that they were under attack from the West.

While these factors are undoubtedly relevant to the phenomenon of growing Talibanisation, it is necessary to underscore that the present military regime under the guise of democracy is equally to blame for the deplorable internal situation in which Pakistan currently finds itself.

A military regime, which lacks grass-root political support and relies on patronage and coercion for its survival, is ill suited for overcoming the problem of growing extremism and militancy which, in the ultimate analysis, is a political problem.

Unfortunately, according to the report carried by the press, the NSC briefing treated Talibanisation primarily as a purely law and order problem even though the law and order machinery can, at best, provide temporary relief in dealing with such problems.

Instead, we need to adopt a comprehensive strategy if we are serious about overcoming the problem of creeping Talibanisation or growing extremism and militancy in different parts of Pakistan. The strategy must cover the political, administrative, security, educational, economic and foreign policy dimensions of the problem.

Perhaps the most important element in this anti-Talibanisation strategy should be the restoration of a democratic framework in the country in place of the current political dispensation dominated by the military.

This democratic framework must encompass the restoration of the constitution as it was on October 12, 1999, free and fair elections under the supervision of an independent and powerful election commission and the return of the armed forces to the barracks to concentrate on their professional duties in accordance with their oath and the relevant constitutional provisions. It must also encompass an independent judiciary, the rule of law, an independent press and the adherence of political parties to the rules of the game in which the majority is allowed to rule the country for a specified period and presents itself for accountability by the people in elections thereafter.

In addition, General Musharraf must take off his uniform, allow political leaders in exile to take part in the forthcoming general elections and present himself for election as the president by the new assemblies after general elections, if he is interested in being elected to that position.

This, however, would require the highly desirable process of political reconciliation in the country rather than a policy of confrontation which General Musharraf has pursued so far vis-à-vis the opposition, especially the two mainstream political parties and their leaders in exile.

Of course, the political steps enumerated above must be supplemented by other measures in the administrative, security, educational and economic spheres to root out the problem of Talibanisation in the country. The thrust of these measures should be to encourage moderation and enlightenment through a conducive administrative, legal and security environment and a programme of educational reform while remaining faithful to our core religious and cultural values.

These reforms must be supported by economic measures to enhance public welfare in contrast with the current military government’s past policy of neglecting issues of concern to the common man. This resulted in increasing inequalities of income and wealth in the country and the growing misery of the average Pakistani.

Finally, there is no doubt that the US invasion and occupation of Iraq, Washington’s hegemonic policies in the Middle East, its support to Israel’s policy of occupation and persecution in the Palestinian territories and the disturbed conditions in Afghanistan have fanned the fires of extremism and militancy in the Muslim world including Pakistan. The briefing in the NSC recognised this problem but apparently failed to recommend any remedial measures. The situation calls for a reconsideration of our foreign policy to bring it in line with long-term national interests on the basis of a well thought-out grand strategy. The limited space of this column does not allow the elaboration of the essential elements of such a grand strategy.

However, we must tell Washington in no uncertain terms that while we will continue to be a partner in the war on terror, the US has a corresponding obligation to eschew its own extremism and bias against the Muslims in dealing with issues of concern to them.

Further, since the fighting in Afghanistan has a direct fallout in Pakistan, especially in its tribal areas, in the form of increased militancy, we should also call for the restoration of peace and harmony through a process of national reconciliation and an agreed power-sharing formula among the various political forces in Afghanistan, leading to the withdrawal foreign forces from there as soon as possible.

It should be obvious by now that the coalition forces, that are seen as occupation forces by many in Afghanistan, have themselves become the problem rather than the solution as regards insecurity in that country.

The writer is a former ambassador.
Email: [email protected]

Re: Lal masjid/ISI drama: 5 Chinese kidnapped

FOL good reads

teh first one really shows the tpugh spot the govt is in, its in a damned if you do and damned if you dont place, but it has to pick one direction and cant afford to stand at the fork in teh road much longer.

the second article is interesting because it does show the follies that were committed by not understanding the long term consequences of giving a carte blanche to rabid psycho mullahs.. taleban and their friends liek JI, JUI, and the various lashkars and sipahs. It was not until 99-2000 timeframe that some of these psycho mullah groups were banned.

Re: Lal masjid/ISI drama: 5 Chinese kidnapped

Pir sahb I would recommend u read “Frontline Pakistan” by Zahid Hussain. achi kitaab hai. Gives a good run down of the events since 9/11 and how Mush had to handle the islamic radicals after the change of Afghan policy. Also goes in detail about the adventures of Sipah Sahab etc in the 90’s.

Dawn has given extensive space to Lal Masjid/Islamic fundamentalists in its editorial pages today :hmmm:

The Lal Masjid defiance

Re: Lal masjid/ISI drama: 5 Chinese kidnapped

FOL

I will have to see if that book is available locally or find it oneline. Thanks for the recommendation.

Mullah jaan ko hitler ho gaye hain, increasingly ziyadah ucchal rahay hain and need a few sharp direct chappairs to get them in order. rozana baan baaan baan..

Re: Lal masjid/ISI drama: 5 Chinese kidnapped

I am expecting a clearer govt. strategy to deal with Lal Masjid issue by Monday. This is the top agenda on the NSC meeting along with the talibanisation in NWFP. CM Durrani is reportedly going along with govt. plans to deal with the issue. Quite a contrast from the days when he wouldnt even attend the meetings :hmmm:

Re: Lal masjid/ISI drama: 5 Chinese kidnapped

Haven't you noticed how most of the non-maulvi leaders ban together when the threat of a Taliban-like group comes up. This Lal Masjid group has these guys crapping in their pants, like everyone else, but for different reasons. They don't fear kidnappings and the privacy invasion and the end of what religious freedom there is in Pakistan, like the common man. They're more worried their constant parade of prostitutes and drugs will end.

A common enemy creates strange bedfellows. Hairy, mustache-wallay government perverts, that is.

Re: Lal masjid/ISI drama: 5 Chinese kidnapped

Does this mean that the Maulvis/taliban are drug pushers and pimps? Very confusing, please do clarify.

Re: Lal masjid/ISI drama: 5 Chinese kidnapped

By "They", I meant politicians in that sentence. I'm referring to "non-maulvi leaders".

Although from what I understand, not every maulvi has been faithful to his wife in Pakistan.

Re: Lal masjid/ISI drama: 5 Chinese kidnapped

Lal Masjid and GoP is full of gutter snipes.