Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
Listen, you posted your whole story and then gave your own answer, what did you want to discuss in this thread about exactly?
Listen, if you have nothing to add, dont click on my threads, I couldn't care less if you couldnt deduce what you had to discuss here.
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
I passed by along the mosque on car while driving around in Islamabad. What strick me was the whole thing is so small, during the tv coverage it looked like a very big mosque with huge madrassa but it is quite a small place. The "nala" that was referred to as an important area from where lal mosque people could escape is very small too. One can just jump over it. Second thing was the surrounding government building still had its windows smashed, wonder why its not been repaired.
Thats because they tore down the huge complex of jamay-e-hafsa right behind it. The mosque is small, but the madrassah was huge. They were always yapping about it being illegally constructed, and now its been an empty ground for almost an year, I wonder what they were planning to do with it.
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
Oh man, you can’t equate soldiers with a bunch of thieves, terrorists, militants, and anarchist.
Look at Afghanis, Somalis, and Lebanese and learn a lesson from them. All those three Islamic Emirates value their terrorist brethren and put down their soliders. Look at the amount of prosperity that shamed even by Sierra Leon.
Learn a lesson bro before it is too late. You want to turn Pakistani cities into bombed out hulks?
Quit putting down our soldiers. If you spite Prez Mush, that’s fine. However that personal hatred should never lead to the hate for our brave soldiers.
Ghazi brothers used tribal men and women as human shields. Read the news. Oh why o why the memories are so bad.
http://www.enews20.com/news_Militants_Inside_Lal_Masjid_Prepared_to_Fight_Until_the_End_01429.html
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
I dont know what sort of news media you are exposed to antiobl, but I dont think a bunch of students, particularly female ones are terrorists. And if you consider unarmed women and fear them, thats just cowardly and pathetic. Theres nothing brave about firing a bunch of civilians, especially your own so spare me the patiotic mumbo jumbo. If ghazi bros used women as shields, does that still give the forces to fire on them? Wake up, this is why the nation hates Musharraf. Your Q league cited the Lal Masjid as their single largest blunder.
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
May Allah bless you for putting up this writing Spock!
Its funny how EVERYONE around Lal Masjid, who actually witnessed the event, are sympathetic to those in the Masjid, the House of Allah, and those who are located thousands of miles away and watching the events through GEO and ARY are sympathizing with the Government.
How fast have conditions in Pakistan changed since the fall of Lal Masjid? What is a soldier in front of a Scholar of Islam or Hafiz al Quran? Is the sanctity of a national institution more than the sanctity of a Masjid? Are we not Muslims? Is the following not the Objective Resolution of the Constitution of Pakistan?
[QUOTE]
Whereas sovereignty over the entire universe belongs to Allah Almighty alone and the authority which He has delegated to the State of Pakistan, through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust;
[/QUOTE]
Is not Commanding Good and Forbidding Evil prescribed upon us by the Quran?
Are we deaf, dumb and blind....that we are still unable to figure out who was wrong and who was right?
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
..... A) Is not Commanding Good and Forbidding Evil prescribed upon us by the Quran?
B) Are we deaf, dumb and blind....that we are still unable to figure out who was wrong and who was right?
A) Absolutely! Unfortunately Islamists have totally forgotten this important message. No wonder they are being whooped all over the world.
B) Yes the Islamists are deaf, dumb, blind and above all "mad" that they are attacking and killing fellow Muslims using suicide bombing.
Lal Masjid was the prime example of how normal people can become raging mad under the bad influence of militants.
Those who bring weapons into mosques i.e. house of Allah will be punished in the hell.
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
B) Yes the Islamists are deaf, dumb, blind and above all "mad" that they are attacking and killing fellow Muslims using suicide bombing.
Lal Masjid was the prime example of how normal people can become raging mad under the bad influence of militants.
Who did Lal Masjid attack and kill that caused your Government to become "raging mad under the bad influence of Western Powers" such that it surrounded the house of Allah, deprived its people off basic necessities like water, food and electricity and used banned chemical weapons on them without having an concern, whatsoever, for the old or the children that may be within the premise?
Those who bring weapons into mosques i.e. house of Allah will be punished in the hell.
Is it only the right of Pro-West Regimes to equip themselves with state of art weaponry and do whatever they wish to do?
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
A) raging mad under the bad influence
B) .. deprived its people off basic necessities like water, food and electricity ..
C) Is it only the right of Pro-West Regimes to equip themselves with state of art weaponry
Sharabi bro!
A) Raging mad people commit suicide bombings, burn themselves up at the airports, and become shoe bombers. Now if you attribute all that raging mad behavior to the one influence, you will find it in Islamists!
B) Our Messenger pbuh treated anti-state people in much worse manner than what you list in your post. Anti state people in Messenger pbuh's time were kicked out of the Madina, and whoever resisted was put to sword. There women were taken as slaves.
At least we allowed Burqa Posh (and not burqposX) to live. And his wife has promptly set up a propaganda office. Now this is what we call tolerance (even for the anti-state elements)
Burq Posh would have been summarily executed, had he been involved in the same kind of rebillion in the time of khulafa or Messenger pbuh.
C) you don't need to dance around the issue of "bringing assault weapons inside the mosque". We know it is not allowed in Islam. Mosque is a sacred place and Burqa Posh and his followers violated that sacred trust.
In summary: I can't change your thoughts. Your belief system is to support militant anarchists. May Allah help you so that you quit supporting militants. That's all.
With all the respect that one deserves!
Fi Aman allah
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
A) Raging mad people commit suicide bombings, burn themselves up at the airports, and become shoe bombers. Now if you attribute all that raging mad behavior to the one influence, you will find it in Islamists!
Raging mad people also use daisy cutters and white phosphorous on schools and homes of the elderly. This "raging mad behavior" is often linked to Western and Pro-Western regimes.
B) Our Messenger pbuh treated anti-state people in much worse manner than what you list in your post. Anti state people in Messenger pbuh's time were kicked out of the Madina, and whoever resisted was put to sword. There women were taken as slaves.
I am writing this post primarily to clarify this one point for yours and for anyone else's sake who might be reading.
It was not "anti-state" that was a punishable crime. It was being anti-Islamic State which was treated as treachery. The Prophet (sas) himself at one was anti-state...having fled Makkah and from Madina waged war against the Makkan Regime, attacking their economic caravans which then led to the big wars.
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
Anti, whatever happened, whoever was at fault, just think of the innocent people inside the mosque, particularly the women. It would be a complete lie if we said no innocent people died. It seems like there was an all out attack from outside, a show of strength and fire power from the orders right from the top (Musharraf), who a while before the seige said 'andar rayen gey tu marey jayen gey' (yes, thats how our great president speaks).
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
aur log andar rahay, iss liye responsobility is of the people who stayed inside, hazaron log nikal aaye. jo log andar rahay woh apnay anjam kay khud zimahdaar thay.
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
I want to go there and pray for perished:(
I wish people would pray for innocent victims of suicide bombings, something supported by Lal Masjid anti-Islam fascists.
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
aur log andar rahay, iss liye responsobility is of the people who stayed inside, hazaron log nikal aaye. jo log andar rahay woh apnay anjam kay khud zimahdaar thay.
People who stayed inside were enemies of Islam and light, the supporters of darkness and evil.
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
Sharaabi:
[quote]
What is a soldier in front of a Scholar of Islam or Hafiz al Quran?
[/quote]
Just being a hafiz e Quran does not mean that the person is not an enemy of Islam. If his logic is all twisted by supporting killing of innocent people in suicide bombings then he is such a scholar is not the scholar of Islam, but the scholar of Evil.
Islam calls such people 'fasadi'.
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
aur log andar rahay, iss liye responsobility is of the people who stayed inside, hazaron log nikal aaye. jo log andar rahay woh apnay anjam kay khud zimahdaar thay.
tsk tsk, women hiding inside the House of Allah (some with the Quran in their hands), shot dead are being blamed for their own death.
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
Everyone seems to be suffering from amnesia here. The Mosque was turning that part of Islamabad into a mini-taliban controlled Afghanistan. It was extremely embarrassing for the federal government, and the people in the mosque -- whoever they were, I will not LABEL them -- clearly crossed the line when they started disrupting civil life in the area by imposing their taliban-inspired authority. The government had to step in. You can shed tears for the poeple who died if you want to, but if they were so innocent they ought to have turned against the madrassa dude who was leading the whole thing.
If you don't understand how critical that situation was, just keep in mind that DEALING with these goons otherwise would have metastasized the process of talibanifaction of Pakistani cities, with each mini-movement springing up from such Lal mosques.
You guys need to start thinking clearly about what kind of Pakistan you want in the future.
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
sadly cult leaders all over the world have had innocent children and women killed. in the end the guy valued his own life more than the lives of the women and children entrusted to him. had he surrendered himself without regard for what happens to him, whether there is prosecution agianst him, whether he faces jail time etc (which is what the content of the 11th hour negotiations was) violent means wouldnt have been used.
Unfortunately he chose to try to shield himself behind women and children, and ended up humiliated, escaping in a burqa, with many of his wards killed because of his selfishness.
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
Everyone seems to be suffering from amnesia here. The Mosque was turning that part of Islamabad into a mini-taliban controlled Afghanistan. It was extremely embarrassing for the federal government, and the people in the mosque -- whoever they were, I will not LABEL them -- clearly crossed the line when they started disrupting civil life in the area by imposing their taliban-inspired authority. The government had to step in. You can shed tears for the poeple who died if you want to, but if they were so innocent they ought to have turned against the madrassa dude who was leading the whole thing.
If you don't understand how critical that situation was, just keep in mind that DEALING with these goons otherwise would have metastasized the process of talibanifaction of Pakistani cities, with each mini-movement springing up from such Lal mosques.
You guys need to start thinking clearly about what kind of Pakistan you want in the future.
Stalker, why did the establishment wait for so long before they acted? Lets assume you are right, i.e. the ppl inside consisted of some major culprits, then does that justify the all out attack on innocent people, especially women? Was their life any less valuable than yours or mine?
I just find it heartless and cruel for some people to just show thumbs up and laugh it off considering so many innocent people died, on both sides.
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
sadly cult leaders all over the world have had innocent children and women killed. in the end the guy valued his own life more than the lives of the women and children entrusted to him. had he surrendered himself without regard for what happens to him, whether there is prosecution agianst him, whether he faces jail time etc (which is what the content of the 11th hour negotiations was) violent means wouldnt have been used.
Unfortunately he chose to try to shield himself behind women and children, and ended up humiliated, escaping in a burqa, with many of his wards killed because of his selfishness.
Agreed, but shouldnt you add to that, the fact that Government should have done a MUCH better job to have avoided a major loss of life, rather than saying 'andar rayo gey tu marey jayo gey', the clip is somwhere on youtube, but those were our great presidents words.
Re: Lal Masjid - A recent visit
Agreed, but shouldnt you add to that, the fact that Government should have done a MUCH better job to have avoided a major loss of life, rather than saying 'andar rayo gey tu marey jayo gey', the clip is somwhere on youtube, but those were our great presidents words.
you can allege incompetance, however I can cite a similar attempt in america to disarm a cult which ended in civilian deaths. You cant expect an army to go into holed up fighters with women and children shields and not get casualties.
The negotiations and standoff went on for 5- 6 days. I remember because I was glued to the tv every single waking moment. Not to mention the many that did get out of the complex.
The government always includes in its calculus the impact of letting an armed masjid instigating a parallel government and talking about unleashing suicide bombing in the country. Whereas there was no such calculus for the venerable baradaraan, all they cared about was not getting arrested, such a selfish reason to let women and children die for you while you try to run off.