L F O (merged)

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

LFO

The opposition is not allowing the parliament to function because they insist that the ordinances issued under the Legal Frame Work Order are illegal. They are chanting slogans like school children (BB style) “NO LFO NO. GO MUSHARRAF GO”. One moulana says ‘a stranger cannot be allowed to address the parliament’. He should know that this so called ‘stranger’ does not have a foreign wife!

Are they bereft of their senses? If LFO is illegal then this applies to all the ordinances. Some of these are, increase in the National and Provincial Assembly seats, reserved seats for women, and reduction in voters age to 18. These MNSs , MPAs and Senators got elected on the basis of these Ordinances. To term them as illegal is to ridicule their own status as illegal. So if anyone has to go on the pretext of ‘Illegal LFOS’ it would be the assemblies.

The main bone of contention is that Musharraf should give up the post of COAS. And the political parties don’t want Musharraf around because he has not allowed the public exchequer to be looted with the result the foreign exchange reserve has crossed the $10 billion mark. In the days of the Nawaz/BB raj the yearly budget was passed only after some loan from the IMF and the World Bank. All those who are opposed to the LFO have ulterior motives to dip in the exchequer. $ 10 billion is quite a figure! As far as the common man is concerned the LFOS are a far cry. It makes no difference to him. On the contrary there has been no ‘payya jam’ strikes and the common man has gone to work without interruption for the last three years.

Its high time that the public understands the malafide intentions of the ‘anti-LFO’ group. They are not concerned with the precarious external situation. They did nothing for the people of Iraq, yet talk of the “Ummah” at every forum.

You can fool some people for some time!

2

I can see why the Mullah's are all jumping around like monkeys on the LFO.... Benazir got to loot....NS got to loot....and now they want there turn...

3

What is with LFO. What is the reason for the "respected" MMA's insistance?

4

Re: L F O

Exactly. :k:

But mark my words, the MMA or the PPP-P will eventually sign up to the whole package (with a few cosmetic changes here and there), and all the present political theatrics are all for public show. The MMA has already accepted 75% of the LFO i.e. 22 of the 29 clauses in it’s continuing open and secret negotiations with the government, while the PPP-P would accept it tommorow if the government offered a deal for BB and co.

It’s Pakistani politicians trying to preach democracy (when half of them supported Zia let’s not forget), while all the time only out to enrich themselves, and angle for the best deal. Pakistan is ticking along nicely with President Musharraf and Prime Minister Jamali with our economy growing from strength to strength as never seen before. The politicians can carry on with their theatrics and empty rhetoric…:slight_smile:

5

While I don't fully agree with LFO but what's the deal with Opponents. If they have any sense left, they should learn and practice the Democractic principles before raising their voices.

Do these LFO opponents, especially MMA, got any workplan to improve the average life of a common man? That's all people in Pakistan care about.

6

I think there are more important issues than LFO. or maybe MMA is right in saying that Pres. Musharraf should give up the post of Chief of Army. MAybe in this way the army will get more politicized!

7

its the public who suffer from this.....these people were elected to deal with the problems of the people and run the counrty....people didnt elect them for this....
why doesnt the govt jus present the thing in parliament n get it over with....?

8

MMA

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
While I don't fully agree with LFO but what's the deal with Opponents. If they have any sense left, they should learn and practice the Democractic principles before raising their voices.

Do these LFO opponents, especially MMA, got any workplan to improve the average life of a common man? That's all people in Pakistan care about.
[/QUOTE]

When there was an earthquake in the Nothern Areas and people were suffering in the cold out in the open the MMA bigwigs were having Iftaar parties and eating halwa and purees in Peshawar.

9

The idiot mullah's promised that they would fix law and order, end corruption...none of which they have done...so now there playing stunts to get the masses attention diverted. The PPP and PML(N)... they are concerned about the new checks and balances...they just want to loot like they did in the 90's.

10

Okay, let me get this LFO crisis straight. The current situation, between Govt. and Opponents pretty much reminds me the same episode of 1997, a sad event in the history of Pakistan, when President Leghari had to stepped down 'cause of difference with Nawaz Sharif and former COAS, Karamat Jehangir refused to the intentions shown by Leghari to what it called overthrow Nawaz's Govt.

In Nawaz Sharif's second time Govt., Constitutional Article 58(2)(B) was then suspended 'cause majority of Parliament, voted in favor of PM, not allowing President any authority to dismiss him and elected Parliament. Former President Rafiq Tarar was like a rubber stamp. Afterwards, we all know what Nawaz did to Karamat Jehangir and Supreme Court Cheif Justice(don't remember his name), by kicking them out; filling his parties members.

One point should be noted, President Leghari was a member of Benazir Bhutto's party(now one of GNA leader), and both Leghari, Sharif didn't even get along from the start.

Today, story is much different. Both high state official position, President and COAS, is hold by Musharraf, therefore, there's no way parties are gonna get what they want i.e Musharraf quiting as a COAS. If you look at the position of the Opponents, their opinion is based on principle. According to the 73 Constitution, President of Pakistan is elected by the National Assembly members, even if they chose a military guy, that would be fine but he should be elected by the members of the National Assembly. Here's where I fully agree with the opponents on LFO. If Political Parties act right, they can bring true means of Democracy in Pakistan. But again, there's a doubt in the sincerity and honesty of the opposition and rest of the political leaders as it is already started showing up. I don't think anyone would like to see Pakistan again heading towards the same direction as it was starting from 1988 till Musharraf came in power. Yes, those were our elected leaders. People of Pakistan expected a bright future from their Govts. That's why they voted them. We voted for them. What they gave nothing but a farce to the name of Democracy. The top leaders of any political party have never practiced Democracy. These people never hold fair elections within their own parties, nor have they let their workers to rise to the top party positions through party elections. For them, Democracy means a system of their own interests. Political parties should function like Political parties rather than family properties, personal interets and business. They should go out, house by house, village by village, knocking on peoples door, ask what they actually want from the people, who are local authorities, chosen by them. But who does that? Which political leader has ever done that? Never! It never happened. Yeah, in near time of election, I've seen that happened alot but after election result, atmosphere is different.

Setting up a political environment, under a military guy can't be possible; and I don't support it at all. But what if the political parties can't figure out how to set it up and just bushing around with their empty rhetoric. Whenever problem occurs, all these leaders start running to the COAS office.

Under the circumstances Pakistan is going through, domestically, regional and World, I reckon Musharraf is the best guy to deal all kinds of crisis.

11

very well doen PT.. my thoughts exactly

12

Here is the MMA’s point of view, I think it deserves a good read through for those who want to understand the underlying meaning behind those “few clauses” of the LFO the opposition is objecting too.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_25-4-2003_pg7_23

The following excerpts from the ‘HARDtalk’ interview of Jamaat-e-Islami Vice President Liaqat Baloch in December 5’s Daily Times (the interview was conducted at the newspaper’s Karachi bureau) might give an insight into the MMA perspective on this issue. He was the leader of the MMA team formed for talks with the PML-QA before the Jamali government was installed.

“The opposition’s stance is very clear. The LFO and the other amendments package introduced by the military government should be presented to parliament for approval. It is their demand that one individual should not hold the post of president and army chief.

“The LFO consists of 29 clauses. The majority of these clauses are about issues such as the increase in the number of Assembly seats and women’s seats, the Senate system, the introduction of joint electorate, etc. It is a fact that the number of parliamentary seats has increased. Parties, including the MMA, participated in the elections on the basis of the increased seats. The opposition will not oppose these particular clauses when they are brought before parliament for approval.

“The clauses to be opposed are the procedure prescribed by the Constitution for the election of a president should be adopted and followed in letter and spirit. General Pervez Musharraf should relinquish the office of chief of army staff by March 2003. Similarly, the National Security Council should not be made part of the Constitution. Presidential powers should be conditioned with the consultation of the prime minister. Since the local bodies are provincial subjects, local governments should not be under the federal government. The provinces should have the power to bring changes in the system. The decision to increase the tenures of High Courts and Supreme Court judges should be rescinded.

The established way of securing indemnity for the acts of military rulers is to place the package before parliament for approval — this way the parliament’s supremacy is also maintained. The 1962 constitution gave indemnity to Ayub Khan’s rule, the Provisional Constitution gave indemnity to Gen Yahya and Zia’s period was indemnified by parliament. Indemnity is unavoidable if power is to be transferred from a military to civilian government.

13

ITs kinda odd...that they can somehow break there prinicples and approve of Zia's rule...however now all of a sudden they have strong principles...... the only reason there after Prez. Musharraf is because of his support for anti-terrorism war.

14

if the govt has the majority.....y doesnt it present this thing in the assembly?

15

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Bhadsha: *
ITs kinda odd...that they can somehow break there prinicples and approve of Zia's rule...however now all of a sudden they have strong principles...... the only reason there after Prez. Musharraf is because of his support for anti-terrorism war.
[/QUOTE]

whatever the reason.....theyre rite....musharraf took an oath sayin he wont interfere with the govt or politics NO MATTER WHAT when he joined the army.
he was terminated as COAS....and u cant hold a govt office for a certain prd of time after that happens.

16

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Bilal_Tarar: *

whatever the reason.....theyre rite....musharraf took an oath sayin he wont interfere with the govt or politics NO MATTER WHAT when he joined the army.
he was terminated as COAS....and u cant hold a govt office for a certain prd of time after that happens.
[/QUOTE]

Says who...the idiot sitting in Jeddah...who ran like a little girl to save himself. if he truly cared about the masses he would have stayed and fought and even martydred himself for the cause.. and when he was overthrown even is 5,000...thats right a mere 5,000 people had come out on the street to protest against the coup...the generals would in all probability have withdrawn...but no one wanted to help the crook cause they knew he put his tail between his legs and run soon as he got the chance. As far as oath goes...the PM also takes an oath to look after the rights of the people...did NS do that...I don't think so....so buddy whatever your political motive is facts are facts....the law and order situation is better, the macro-economic outlook is better...hell..when NS was in office every day you would hear of a new report labelling Pakistan a failed state destined to break up in 2 years..even the UN got in on the action....but now no one says it..the state of Paksitani union is strong, and people are working day and night to make the economy and the defense of the nation impregenable....As for presenting it before the assembly..the basic reason is that the Supreme Court granted the CE executive authority to temper with the constitution...so take it up with the court...if your not happy with it let the opposition introduce a bill removing the LFO.... but he opposition knows the people are not with them nor do they have the votes...hence there jumping around like monkeys...something which there profession calls for .

17

What? Now, MMA wants to discuss 29 amendments of LFO in the Parliament. Didn't they say before LFO can't be a part of the Constitution? They are twisting their own words, nothing else. PPP is against LFO under the banner of ARD. Let's not talk about that. PML(N) looking for a chance to settle the score with Musharraf. There's no unity among the opposition parties. How could they be successful?

Politics is all about powers; and our politicians are no good at it. They are divided among themselves. First, they need to secure their own ground i.e Parliament. Behave like civilized people. Secondly, they should try for the best but also be ready to accept the worst if nothing favors them. There should be a dialouge and debate that leads to the end of crisis.

18

Musharraf is a very good President and the chief of Army . In Pakistan we have set the things straight according to the Constitution. Therefore he cannot be both. SO what is wrong with that. I think MMA's stance is right and just and they are quite sensible.

We have to care for Pakistan only and not personalities. Pakistan surely comes first, so follow the Constitution if we want to ensure rule of law in the country.

I like Musharraf. At the same time we should keep the Constitution high because all agree on that.

19

y doesnt the govt put this thing in the assmebly n have it passed...this thing is only harming our country and the people....the politicians have nothing to loose....they live comfortable lives....its the poor who suffer, who elect these people hoping that they would solve their problems.
Musharraf might be creating problems for himself by stayin the COAS....there may be other army generals waiting for their turn!

20

Never misses a chance

BB once again didn’t miss the chance to divide and harm the nation…rather then compromise so as not to jepordize the ecnomic growth of Pakistan she once again is sticking by her old style dirty politics. Party dictator speaking of democracy… its not the external enemy which can cause most harm but the internal one. Just like the prophet faced huge problems from the hypcrites..

http://www.dawn.com/2003/04/28/top2.htm

PPP rejects ‘deal’ on LFO

By Ashraf Shad

DUBAI, April 27: Pakistan People’s Party Chairperson Benazir Bhutto has said her party will not accept any compromise on Legal Framework Order (LFO) and will reject any deal made by any other party.

She was talking to her party leaders, senators and members of national and provincial assemblies from Sindh on Sunday while reacting on rumours that MMA is keen to reach an agreement with the government on the LFO.

“We will not accept the LFO or a president who is not elected to his office according to procedure laid down in the constitution,” she reportedly told her party leaders. The gathering turned into a forum of discussion where PPP policies on all major issues were discussed.

Some party leaders from Lahore and Islamabad told the meeting about rumours that the MMA could make a deal if the president agreed to take off his army uniform after a specified time.

“No!” she told her party leaders, “No one has a right to change the constitution. We will stick to our stand and will not go back an inch. We would stay in opposition and will continue our struggle against the LFO.”

Makhdoom Amin Fahim, the leader of the PPP Parliamentarians, who attended negotiations with the government along with leaders of other opposition parties, was also present at the meeting and told his party colleagues about the progress of the talks.

According to Mr Faheem, a committee having representatives of all the parties had been set up and it would start its deliberations from Monday and would discuss the LFO article by article.

Ms Bhutto also discounted any suggestion that the US would bring her in power claiming she opposed all US policies that were contrary to interests of Pakistan and the Muslim world.

“It was the power of people not of the USA that brought us in power and will bring us in power again. We don’t want to come in power through back doors,” she was quoted as saying.

She was optimistic that the present system would not be in place for long and the “coalition of vested interests” would soon collapse. She said there was no chance of so-called PPPP Patriots to come back in the party and described them as “parasites.” “A crime has to be punished,” she said.

She also warned party leaders that any indiscipline would cause them their positions in the party.

There were at least 24 women leaders from Sindh who attended the gathering. Some party leaders from Punjab who met her yesterday also attended.

Among those who were present were: Amin Faheem, Raza Rabbani, Naveed Qamar, Nisar Khuro, Altaf Qureshi, Qaim Ali Shah, Aftab Shaban Meerani, Khursheed Shah, Rukhsana Zubairy, Raashid Rabbani, Faarooq Naik, Safdar Abbasi, Yusuf Talpoor, Anwar Beg, Manzoor Wassan, Naheed Khan, Shah Mehmood Qureshi, Marvi Mazhar and others.