Re: "Kill Team" Photos release
^exactly, atleast these few soldiers are being punished severely by their superiors for what they did, atleast there is order and discipline in the armed forces. the taliban take pleasure in every gruesome act they've done, they are not apologetic, there is no judical system for them or code of conduct
Re: "Kill Team" Photos release
Don't worry. These soldiers will land jobs on your local city police force and be just fine. They're here to protect you.
Re: "Kill Team" Photos release
^exactly, atleast these few soldiers are being punished severely by their superiors for what they did, atleast there is order and discipline in the armed forces. the taliban take pleasure in every gruesome act they've done, they are not apologetic, there is no judical system for them or code of conduct
You can get the job easily.
Re: "Kill Team" Photos release
hey Centcom!
don't know who are you are and your post sounds quite official!
anyway, I am glad you are posting this in response to those that are always looking for an excuse to throw mud on the entire US of A.
have to keep reminding people that 9/11 & taleban started all this
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This isn't fair. This is like reading one side of the story. Taleban should have one of these softwares as well so they can post their responses equally.
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hey Centcom!
don't know who are you are and your post sounds quite official!
So you like official parrots of a government?
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lol are you joking? this parallel is so poor i'm not sure where to begin.
that is a terrible example of bad apples. those would be fresh ripe juicy apples. lynchings were sanctioned events drawing massive crowds of klan members. they were institutionally driven and the perpetrators were usually senior klansmen themselves. do you think klan leaders issued statements calling such acts repugnant and had the perpetrators imprisoned and tried for murder?
You've just shown why your previous post was so silly. In order to counter the KKK argument you had to draw qualitative differences between the KKK and the army, instead of talking about percentages. If you look purely at percentages, the differences between the % of Klan members participating in violent crimes and the % of 'bad apple' US army personnel wouldnt be significantly different.
I agree the US Army makes better noises about these things, but then the Klan never had any incentive to make good noises either (and modern day incarnations like David Duke do talk a better game). As for trial for murder, the only person convicted so far is to serve 2 months in jail. Justice is served!
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Bad apples are found in every army, and I hope they get what they deserve.
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You've just shown why your previous post was so silly. In order to counter the KKK argument you had to draw qualitative differences between the KKK and the army, instead of talking about percentages. If you look purely at percentages, the differences between the % of Klan members participating in violent crimes and the % of 'bad apple' US army personnel wouldnt be significantly different.
I agree the US Army makes better noises about these things, but then the Klan never had any incentive to make good noises either (and modern day incarnations like David Duke do talk a better game). As for trial for murder, the only person convicted so far is to serve 2 months in jail. Justice is served!
this is nonsensical and poorly thought out. i am disappointed by the quality of your comments. we are talking about the justifiability of painting the larger organization with the same brush as the specific participants. when the non-participants fully support the participants' actions in spirit and the organization as a whole encourages and embraces those actions, the reputation/stereotype created by the action itself can be reasonably applied to the larger group. the whole point of a "bad apple" is that a generalization cannot be derived from it...your irrelevant example does not qualify.
btw while this example is irrelevant for more fundamental reasons, fyi racism is far more central to the kkk's reputation than violence.
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this is nonsensical and poorly thought out. i am disappointed by the quality of your comments. we are talking about the justifiability of painting the larger organization with the same brush as the specific participants. when the non-participants fully support the participants' actions in spirit and the organization as a whole encourages and embraces those actions, the reputation/stereotype created by the action itself can be reasonably applied to the larger group. the whole point of a "bad apple" is that a generalization cannot be derived from it...your irrelevant example does not qualify.
First off, like I mentioned, later reincarnations of the Klan 'disavowed' violence and tended to claim that violence was committed by rogue elements and so on. To give an example closer to home, there are many 'political parties' in both India and Pakistan who have sizable memberships and smaller 'rogue' elements. Like the latter day Klan, a party like MQM or JI or (to throw you a bone) HuT, maybe even RSS (dont know enough about them to be sure) would both disavow violence, and claim that the violence that does happen is the work of bad apples. And if you take a percentage of 'bad apples' to their total memberships, the percentage of people who actually commit violence would definitely be below 1%. Yet the way these parties are perceived by non-partisans is not helped by that number.
The purpose however is not to generalize, but to point out the tired nature of this defense. Every time this happens, going back to Abu Ghraib, Bagram, Guantanamo, these douchebags, the argument that is trotted out is these are bad apples. It is getting old, it doesnt help the people killed that the killers and torturers were called bad apples, jailed for some months, and discharged. It is simply PR, and as PR it is completely ineffective.
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btw while this example is irrelevant for more fundamental reasons, fyi racism is far more central to the kkk's reputation than violence.
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They do nevertheless have a reputation for violence, even if its not central.
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Can you cite a condemnation from Taliban when they kill or mutilate their innocent victims, let alone the conduct of investigations that subject members to trial for terrorism and indiscriminate murder?
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With all due respects, sir, I cannot cite a case of the Taliban killing for sport. Their justification for the murder and mayhem they wreck is more along the lines of rehtoric of 'collateral damage', of which nation states do not cover in the court of law and rarely feel the need to appologize for, except vague statements which are tantamount to saying "oops".
Indeed, there is a difference between trying to minimize casualities, and attacking targets with wanton disregard for the number of civilian casualties. However absolutely unconvoncing is that this is a function of moral imperative rather than techniological ability and advantage. Which brings us to the latest drone attacks in Pakistan...
I think you are missing the big picture, and that's the existence of a large body of people in Pakistan and Afghanistan who think they are caught between the rock of US might and hardplace of taliban terror.
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hey Centcom! anyway, I am glad you are posting this in response to those that are always looking for an excuse to throw mud on the entire US of A.
What kind of absurd statement is this? Being critical of US policy is hardly throwing mud at the US, and history has shown that patriots have too, from time to time, challenged the state.
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First off, like I mentioned, later reincarnations of the Klan 'disavowed' violence and tended to claim that violence was committed by rogue elements and so on.
Good point... Most well known racist organizations have disavowed racism... Today its all about racial pride. Whatever that means.
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it's the first photo that's in the link right? the others are from abu ghraib and vietnam.
the reason i say mentally unstable is b/c you'd have to have serial killer qualities to just have killed somebody that was seemingly done for fun and sport and then smile with such a wide grin straight at the camera. Only nutjobs do things like that. i'm not surprised the afghans are protesting, it does bring out the anger seeing the photo
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While I have no problem with the rest of the statement I take offense to the part quoted. Are you seriously comparing actions by the US military and the Taliban? The Taliban are ruthless thugs with no moral values. They are criminals and terrorists. They kill innocent people. If that is the bar being set by the Command structure, well I guess we should be pleased the military even called for an investigation 
A tip for PR. Do not compare your actions to those of a lower standard. It only reflects poorly on you.
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i agree with you here, good point but there are Muslims in this world that actually see the afghan taliban as the good guys or the better of the two(taliban, Armed forces). what’s the logic behind their thinking?
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This isn't fair. This is like reading one side of the story. Taleban should have one of these softwares as well so they can post their responses equally.
you are not their spokesperson :@: ?
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you are not their spokesperson :@: ?
are you?
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i agree with you here, good point but there are Muslims in this world that actually see the afghan taliban as the good guys or the better of the two(taliban, Armed forces). what's the logic behind their thinking?
Good grief. You asking for a thesis paper one would write for a PHD. Look short answer is there is no logic behind it. It is all emotions and stupidity. The long answer is like I said a PHD thesis paper. Here is the abstract.
The crazy nutters who support the Taliban do not do so because of logic or basic views of humanity. Rather they do so for emotional and subjective reasons. What are these reasons. 60 years of history and the consequences of actions taken. They believe (to quote the Ayatollah) that the US is Satan. It is full of people who are out to kill Muslims and take over their lands. That Americans have restarted the crusades all over again. Now logically this does not make sense but emotionally it does.
Now here starteth the history lesson. Faris can jump in and fix any names and dates.
The US has done the most to ensure that democracy does not spread in the oil rich areas of the Muslim world. In 1954 the elected Prime Minister of Iran (Mou something I can't remember his name) took it upon himself to stop the oil production in the country and take it away from the hands of the British. British and US armed forces actively supported a coup d'etat removed the democratically elected PM and placed in his place the Shah. 30 years later (roughly) the Shah was dethroned. One of the underlying causes of the over throw was the actions taken in 1954.
They have played double games selling WMDs to Iraq and others that have been used to kill Muslims world wide. Do you know that there is not a single Arab country in this world that has any form of a functioning democracy? They are all dictatorships or royal families. In the 21st centuries they places have no democratic values and the US actively supports a majority of these regimes. Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman, Bahrain, Qatar and Jordan are just a few examples.
The one sided approach on Israel. The actions taken in Bosnia only after Pakistan and Turkey started funneling weapons to the Bosnian Muslims with Saudi money. Now to be honest this had US support. They allowed these three countries to fund the Bosnian militias and give them weapons, but did nothing to stop the genocide occurring.
All this pulls at the heart strings of Muslims world wide and it is a common feeling that the US is unfair in its dealings with the Muslim world.
This translates to the old adage. The Taliban and the American military forces are all *****s. But the Taliban they are **our *******s so its okay.
One thing CENTCOM said and its true is that the average Afghan does not complain or care that the Taliban killed 20 innocent people. If the Americans kill one innocent person there are strikes in numerous towns and Karzai makes a statement on the matter.
Now not all Americans are trigger happy yokels. The ones from Arizona sure. The rest not so much :D The average American serving in Afghanistan or Iraq is not serving there to kill Muslims. He or she under take such activities out of civic pride. It is an honor a badge of pride to say they served with their people in Iraq or Afghanistan. Some are good and some are bad. There are some who spend hours helping build schools and clinics. Stock them with supplies and teach the nurses. Only to have it blown up by the Taliban a few weeks later and the Afghans again demand the Americans pay.
The Afghans in general are a power hungry and greedy nation. Blame it on 30 years of war or whatever you want but their only aim is to take as much as they can before ISAF leaves.
The ISAF forces are also naive. They don't understand the cultural context and by no means the power broker set up. Most of the time you hear of ISAF killing the wrong people it isn't their fault. The Afghans that work for them use ISAF to settle a blood debt or a political score. They have been wising up for the past 3 or 4 years but the damage has been done.
They come in believing people will be honest and wish to develop the country. One thing you can not fault the average American for is the fact that they do have good hearts and come with those intentions and views in mind. The Americans have poured more than 20 billion dollars alone in development projects in Afghanistan. That is a **** load of money for a country fighting two battles and in an economic recession.
Development wise ISAF has done a great job but on a matter of principle the military should never be involved in development work.
I hope that answers the Thesis question you posed to me :p