An Evil Evil Man (and it is indeed a man, since all men are pigs in PCG’s world), has captured 3 random people. You are not friends with any of them, and you’ve never seen any of them in real life. Let’s leave religion out of it. They’re all desi, for argument’s sake. Or if you’re white, and reading this, then they’re all white. They are whatever the hell you are, or whatever helps you imagine the impartiality of the situation.
Evil Evil Man gives you a choice. He hands you a gun. You can either kill Person Numero Uno or not kill them.
If you kill him/her, the Evil Evil Man will not kill the other two.
If you do not kill him/her, the Evil Evil Man will kill the other two.
PCG lets even come up with better examples. As we were dealing with our loss last year, I connected with others who had losses. Read the story of one lady who was on fertility drugs and had 4 babies, the doctors told her that she should do "selective reduction" to bring the number down to 2 or maximum 3. They ended up doing it, and the rest went well but they walked around with guilt wondering whether they had a right to play god and end the life of 2.
But desperate situations call for desparate actions, and if you are looking at the greatest good for the greatest number of people, basically a utilitarian approach then you will kil one person, this is assuming that this evil person can be trusted..and that he will not kill the other two and yourself afterwards anyways.
The rule is that you can’t kill the Evil Evil Man. Okay, fine, let’s say its Shaitaan, and that even if you did shoot a bullet at him, he ain’t gonna die.
this is a non-argument. First they take pills and undergo various procedures to make kids, and when they get 2 removed they feel guilty about playing God. Wat about the making part? isn’t that playing god as well?
I believe that when they take drugs as such, they dont really know how many kids they may have. I thought you were a doctor and would know this.
And how is this a non-argument, the question is of making a tough decision, and no matter how you ended up in that situation, whether it is the story of the guy who had to let go of either his mother or his sister as he held on to them in the tsunami, or the parents in this case, or the prisoner in PCG's example.
Forget pills and this scenario, how about people who have to remove their kids from life support systems, especially with preemies who are just not doing well. they too "made" the kid, and they too are taking him off of life support. how about people who have conjoined twins and have to make a decision on a surgery to remove them in which one will die for sure.
Conceptually there is a huge difference as well, you are not playing god, that may be in the cloning area but for simple stuff like drugs or other procedures, you are simply increasing the possibility of success, no guarantees. but when you do reduction, it is guaranteed death.
its similar to taking patients off the life support systems, one can argue that you were playing god by putting them on life support, but life support is not a guarantee that they will live because ppl on life support die every day, but when you remove them, it almost always means death.
The issue is about making a decision which will end a life, and about guilt.
Reminds me of a twilight zone episode I saw years ago.
A man came to a poor couples home and gave them a box with a button on it. They were told if they pushed the button they would receive 1 million dollars, the catch being someone they never met and did not know would die, they had one week to decide.
In the end I believe they did push the button and the next clip showed the same man offering another couple the same deal and presumably this couple didn't know nor had ever met the first couple, how spooky...or not?
The lesson? If you going to push the button make sure you hunt down and kill the man who brought it to you.
Basically, since my ethics are based in my faith, I would not be able to kill. If the Evil Man kills, it is his soul or conscience, not mine. Mine would be clean for I did not cause anyone to die.
Just because I was given an unfair choice does not mean that I have to accept the responsibility for the Evil Man's actions. He is the one who wants someone dead, he should be the one killing. Anyone who kills for the sake of killing lacks moral fiber or ethics and you cannot trust their word.
*Basically, since my ethics are based in my faith, I would not be able to kill. If the Evil Man kills, it is his soul or conscience, not mine. Mine would be clean for I did not cause anyone to die. *
How does Islam advocate this. Maybe by not killing the One, you are not DOING harm. But you are ALLOWING harm. So how is ALLOWING harm right? Doesn't Islam say that if you see someone suffering, you should help them? Helping someone would be advocated over not harming them.
My ethics will dictate me to get the fk out of there. If people want to kill one another, let them do that.
PCG, I think Saddam is Satan in your example, and the USA has been given a choice of killing One (Sunnis) to save the other two (Kurds and Shias). Do you think I read you correctly?
How does Islam advocate this. Maybe by not killing the One, you are not DOING harm. But you are ALLOWING harm. So how is ALLOWING harm right? Doesn't Islam say that if you see someone suffering, you should help them? Helping someone would be advocated over not harming them.
PG - Just because someone hands a decision to me does not mean it is my decision to make. Evil Man just decided to kill people, but use another instrument of death - me. I am responsible for myself with God or Allah first, (you said to keep religion out, now in, so here goes) then I am responsible for my neighbor, in that order, right or wrong.
If helping another destroys my relationship with God/Allah, then that is not the right choice. I look at Evil Man as a test of my faith and if I decide to kill, where is my faith or obedience? God did not say you can't kill unless (a) you have no choice (b) you don't like someone elses decision, or (c) you don't agree with how someone lives. God said "Do not kill". Nothing else.
Others (aside for God) have added conditions on when or how or what circumstances you can kill, but God commanded you not to. period.
BTW - assuming I am Muslim is futile, I am Catholic. My husband is Muslim (40+ yrs and devout) and after asking his opinion and what his faith says he should follow, he agrees with the above.
Firstly it is not circa 1994. It is more like 2000 when "Counter Strike" came out. Secondly hacker/geeks do not communicate in l337 or rather "Elite". It's a gaming language; consider it Esperanto for the internet community. It’s funny to see how people ignorant of what they do not know or understand attack the matter right away.
Are you all so hostile on a regular basis? If I say communicated in French or Hungarian would I be treated the same?
Because you're not writing in some foreign language - you're writing in English. You just can't make out the letters well, because you're using numbers instead. And at the same time, you expect us to understand and communicate with you, and you expect to hold a discussion. If someone posts in Dutch here (which is usually the case), then everyone knows the Dutch kids want to speak to each other in Dutch, and if you don't know Dutch, then the thread was not meant for you.
So...stop it with that nonsense. Write so that people can understand you.
PCG, are you a lesbian?
And yes i would shoot the person inorder to save the other two people's life simply because its logical. Unless the person that i had to shoot was someone close to me and the other two were some random people from lets say Gupshup or something, than i would say fk this and shoot the other two people myself.
