Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

[Jal_Pari]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

@Sharaabi

Because those millions of dollars are being spent on its root cause. Because once Shariah comes…people like you and the rest of the millionaires of the society will all have to pay the Zakaah, whether they like it or not. And once everyone starts paying Zakaah poverty will vanish, as we’ve seen so many times in the history of Islam.

This poverty is a product of your capitalistic society, where the rich continue to get rich, and the poor continue to get poor. You take this satanic system out…wealth gets distributed equally and everyone gets their rights.

rightttt…and despite of that in pak we have extreme poverty and extreme riches

[Crescent]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

ZOBIA, u happy now?
*I'd rather listen to this scholar than you, sorry but they have more knowledge in Islam. *

AS FOR MUSIC:

Allah says in the Holy Qur’an:
There are those amongst men who purchase vain speech without knowledge, to mislead from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule on (the Path). For them there is a humiliating chastisement.(Luqmân : 6)

Ibn Kathir in his commentary of the Holy Qur’an writes under this ayah that three eminent Sahabah Abdullah bin Mas’ood, Abdullah bin Abbas, and Jabir bin Abdullah refer vain speech to mean singing. The same explanation is stated by Ikrimah, Sa’eed bin Jubair, Mujahid, Makhool, Amar bin Shu’aib, and Ali bin Buzhaimah.
Hasan al-Basri says, “This ayah was revealed pertaining to singing and musical instruments.”
(Tafsir ibn Kathir v.3 p.413 Dar al-Mufeed)

Imam Bukhari in his Sahih narrates:
There will be people from my Ummah who will seek to make lawful fornication, wearing of silk, wine and the use of musical instruments (Sahih al-Bukhari 6:303 Dar al-Fikr)

*AS FOR PAINTINGS:
*
Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] marched against the Makkans after their break of the treaty of Hudaybiyah. The day the Muslims were blessed with victory is known as ‘Yawmul Fath’. On this day, the Ka’abah returned to its original form, free from the pollution of the pagans (polytheists). Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] saw to the destruction and removal of all the paintings and statues.

Ibn Abbaas [radhiallaahu anhu] narrates that Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] entered the house (Ka’bah) wherein he found the picture of Maryam and Ibraaheem (alayhimus salaam). Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] thereafter mentioned, ‘As for them, they had heard that the Angels do not enter a house contain pictures.’ (Bukhari vol.4 Hadith3351)

The above contains some important points:

1. Ibraahim (alayhimus salaam)and Maryam (alayhimus salaam)knew that picture making is forbidden.
2. Angels do not enter a house containing pictures;
3. Ibraahim (alayhimus salaam)and Maryam (alayhimus salaam)are not responsible for the pictures made of them.

In another narration, ibn Abbaas [radhiallaahu anhu] narrates, ‘When Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] saw pictures (idols) in the Ka’bah, he did not enter till he gave a decree for their destruction. Thereafter, they were erased and Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] saw Ibraahim and Ismail (alayhimus salaam) within divining arrows in their hands. Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] said, ‘May Allah destroy them, I take an oath on Allah that they (Ibraahim and Ismail (alayhimus salaam)never predicted the future with diving arrows.’ (Ibid)

In another Hadith, Jaabir (alayhimus salaam) mentions that there were pictures in the Ka’bah. Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] commanded Umar [radhiallaahu anhu] to erase them. Umar (alayhimus salaam)went with a cloth and erased them with the cloth. Nabi (alayhimus salaam)entered the Ka’bah and there were no pictures remaining. (Musnad Ahmad vol.3 Hadith396)

**Thats your proof from Islamic Sources, I'm not here to convince, but pass on the message to you, the rest is up to you.

IF you can't comply by it, atleast UNDERSTAND that it is wrong, do not go about promoting it as Halaal, do not change the Deen of Allah swt.**
**
**

[Mostar95]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

What about paintings and pictures of plants? They are also living things!

[Mostar95]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

^ and how did you *personally observe *that?

Well, even if what you said is true..it still doesn't show the real picture. Since we know that in our societies...the majority of the wealth is hoarded up a very small percentage of people. So the remaning 10% would possibly be holding up to...lets say, 70-80% of the country's wealth!

Just go and ask the super rich in your city. People these days feel no shame in admitting that they dont pay Zakaah.

I know many super rich, they pay openly and secretly.

[mYsTeRiOuS_gUy]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

Well done Shoaib Mansoor, some of us are still in denial that we do have PROBLEM in our society, these extremists hide behind religion and they have tarnished the name of Islam with their moronic attitude. Their actions have let the whole muslim umma down and they should be criticised and we should openly admit that we do have HUGE problem.
As far as music is concerned, most of you complaining about the movie listen to Indian crap 24/7 and you have no problems with that but now you are all calling music HARAM, stop listening to music first and show the whole world it's HARAM (if that's what you think).

[Sharaabi]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

I know many super rich, they pay openly and secretly.

Mostar...if Zakaah was payed how its supposed to be payed, and then..Distributed, like how it is supposed to be distributed...then we wouldnt be having any poverty.

So stop goin on about how people are paying Zakaah, because they are not. Zakaah produces results, just like other pillars of Islam, and absence of those results proves that it is not being payed like how it should be.

[suhaib]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

lol @ this thread. the elite(secular) vs. tablighi

in the end the tablighi will win.. that's a promise.

unfortunatly you cant bring bombs on to this forum or commit a suicide attack, unless you go and blow up the gupshup HQ
so no tablighi cant win this one,

[Sharaabi]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

^^ well you cant bring your tanks and ammo, and bomb a user either. Or frame another user of keeping an Ak47 next to his keyboard.

But you can surely reveal your nifaaq on here.

[suhaib]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

people also need to stop blaming shoaib monsoor.
first of all big islamic scholars in the past have said music is not haraam.
and it is the great islamic scholar Javed Ghamidi who provided the research for this film, so when a point is raised in the film, its based on Javed Ghamidis arguement, not shoaib monsoors.

[system]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

@showkot

Lahore, Pakistan - Why would I drive 4-1/2 hours to see a Pakistani movie?

Well, for starters, the only movie theater in Islamabad, Pakistan’s capital, was torched by a Sunni mob during sectarian riots four years ago.

But there were other reasons for the trek. I wanted to attend the premier of “Khuda ke Liye” or “In the Name of God,” a movie about the religious rift wrenching Pakistan.

The film is being hailed in some segments of Pakistani society as the most important cinematic event in memory. The other draw was the venue: the DHA Cinema, a world-class movie theater, had just opened its doors for the elite of Lahore in “Defense,” a posh neighborhood run by the military.

As the title suggests, the movie is about Islam and the battle between two polarized groups – modernized elites carrying the banner of “enlightened moderation” and radicals with their “jihad” – both had claims to the religion.

I took a cab from the house where I was staying. As we pulled up to the theater, the cabbie was as excited as I was. “The last time I saw crowds like this,” he bubbled, “was when ‘Titanic’ came to town.”

My initial attempts to get tickets for the première had failed. “In the Name of God” had been sold out for weeks in advance. But there were two showings, one at 9 p.m. and one at 3 p.m. (Bruce Willis in “Live Free or Die Hard” was on at 6 p.m.) I might score a ticket to the matinee, I was told, by just showing up.

I swallowed hard at the price: 250 rupees ($4.15) – ten times that of a regular movie ticket. Once inside, I found a packed house of some 500 immaculately dressed Lahoris, munching on buttered popcorn, bouncing in reclining seats, and enjoying the digital sound system.

For many Pakistanis – or at least those in this theater – the movie offers an explanation for the unrest around them.

“I had been dying to see this movie,” Sara Malik, a 17-year-old student, dressed in jeans and a powder-pink T-shirt told me after the movie. “It’s an amazing story, because it explains what really happens behind things like the Lal Masjid [Red Mosque],” she said, with nods of agreement by nearby school friends. The violent weeklong battle between religious militants and the Pakistan Army this month in Islamabad was unnerving for the entire country and unlike anything the youth of the country had ever witnessed.

Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf reportedly had the first private screening of the movie right here. He supposedly became an instant fan, and he has seen it twice since. After seeing it, I understood why a movie patronized by the president could also play across the country to packed halls without ever having to go through the strict and powerful state censor board.

The movie centers around an upper-middle class Pakistani family, the kind whose stories the director Shoaib Mansoor – a successful age-old hand in Pakistan state media – made a name for himself portraying in popular soap operas in the 1980s. The story of two musician brothers – one studies music in Chicago and the other becomes a Taliban fighter in Afghanistan following the American invasion – is a fantastical tale that warns its audience of the threat of Islamic radicalism to Pakistanis.

The inspiration for the movie, Mr. Mansoor writes, came from Junaid Jamshed, the former lead singer for Pakistan’s most successful rock band, Vital Signs. Like the lead character in the movie, Mr. Jamshed turned from rock star to mullah after 2001.

Jamshed was once a joyous icon for the Western-looking youth of the 1980s, after the Soviet-Afghan War and the Islamic military rule of Gen. Zia-ul-Haq came to an end. But six years ago, he turned a corner and quickly became one of the most high-profile Islamic preachers associated with the Tablighi Jamaat, a Muslim missionary group that spans the globe.

A metaphor for the segment of society that was rejecting Western influence in a time of war, Jamshed grew a full beard and swapped his tight jeans and T-shirts for a more nationalistic salwar kameez. He dedicated himself to spreading the word of the Koran to the masses and preaching about the evils of music.

Mansoor, who was a close friend and had helped propel Vital Signs to mega-stardom, was disturbed by Jamshed’s transformation. “It really shook me badly,” the director told a local magazine before the movie premierèd. “I couldn’t believe God could hate the two most beautiful things he has given to mankind … music and painting.”

“I felt that a confused man like Junaid had no right to confuse thousands of his youthful followers,” he said.

The movie is also being touted as the revival of Pakistani cinema, which has been a casualty of increasing religious militancy in the country. Abdul Rashid Ghazi of the Red Mosque, for example, made one of his last anti-vice stands against the release of “In the Name of God.” Mr. Ghazi called the movie blasphemous and anti-Islamic. “We won’t allow this,” he warned the government earlier this month.

Ghazi was killed a few days after uttering those words at the hands of the Pakistani military, and the movie is now showing all over the Punjab province, the Pakistan Army’s stronghold, in the city of Karachi the financial capital, and a few well-to-do surrounding towns in Sindh. It is unlikely to make its way west to the provinces bordering Afghanistan and Iran. The uncensored movie is not only likely to be rejected by the provincial governments led by Islamist parties, but also by the Pashtun and Baluchi tribes themselves, who are portrayed as violent, cunning, and chauvinistic religious fanatics in the movie.

I drove back to Islamabad the next day and violence broke out at the Red Mosque again. The capital saw its second suicide bombing of the month. For a moment, I was tempted to go back to the theater in Lahore. At least there, I could find a clear, if simplistic, explanation for the tragic panic unfolding in the city and the country.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070731/wl_csm/ocinemastan_1
Comment:

As the Islamic dawah spreads and affects the powerful and influential middle classes who hold the key to the return of Islam to society as a system for life. Those who who wish for the existing Secular rule to remain with its side effects of corruption and vice resort to making films showing the dawah carriers as evil and wicked.

Surely if they were so convinced of the Western Secular values it would be easy to engage in a live debate on national tv with those who call for the return of Islam to life and society and refute the Islamic values?

LOL :hehe: Secular system is corrupt and the Dawah system is the solution???

You gotta be kidding me… Look around you buddy, those suicide bombers murdering anything that moves arent secular, they are the living example of you dawah system…

Islam is great, but who’s Islam are you talking about? Your Islam? Talibans Islam? Lal Masjids? Moderate? Most people in the country dont have a problem with music and entertainment, but does your Islam allow that?

Get real man, no one knows what a truly Islamic system is, but im sure terrorists trying to represent Islam, are willing to kill, murder, and pilige the country to try and impose whatever they think it is…
Reality check… A beard down to your feet doesnt give you the credentials to impose your understanding of Islam on others…

Thankfuly, there are sane individuals around who have the vision to make films such as this to expose the hypocracy of religous terrorists across the spectrum.

[system]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

ZOBIA, u happy now? *I'd rather listen to this scholar than you, sorry but they have more knowledge in Islam. *

AS FOR MUSIC:

Allah says in the Holy Qur’an: There are those amongst men who purchase vain speech without knowledge, to mislead from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule on (the Path). For them there is a humiliating chastisement.(Luqmân : 6)

Ibn Kathir in his commentary of the Holy Qur’an writes under this ayah that three eminent Sahabah Abdullah bin Mas’ood, Abdullah bin Abbas, and Jabir bin Abdullah refer vain speech to mean singing. The same explanation is stated by Ikrimah, Sa’eed bin Jubair, Mujahid, Makhool, Amar bin Shu’aib, and Ali bin Buzhaimah. Hasan al-Basri says, “This ayah was revealed pertaining to singing and musical instruments.” (Tafsir ibn Kathir v.3 p.413 Dar al-Mufeed)

Imam Bukhari in his Sahih narrates: There will be people from my Ummah who will seek to make lawful fornication, wearing of silk, wine and the use of musical instruments (Sahih al-Bukhari 6:303 Dar al-Fikr)

*AS FOR PAINTINGS: * Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] marched against the Makkans after their break of the treaty of Hudaybiyah. The day the Muslims were blessed with victory is known as ‘Yawmul Fath’. On this day, the Ka’abah returned to its original form, free from the pollution of the pagans (polytheists). Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] saw to the destruction and removal of all the paintings and statues.

Ibn Abbaas [radhiallaahu anhu] narrates that Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] entered the house (Ka’bah) wherein he found the picture of Maryam and Ibraaheem (alayhimus salaam). Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] thereafter mentioned, ‘As for them, they had heard that the Angels do not enter a house contain pictures.’ (Bukhari vol.4 Hadith3351)

The above contains some important points:

1. Ibraahim (alayhimus salaam)and Maryam (alayhimus salaam)knew that picture making is forbidden.
2. Angels do not enter a house containing pictures;
3. Ibraahim (alayhimus salaam)and Maryam (alayhimus salaam)are not responsible for the pictures made of them.

In another narration, ibn Abbaas [radhiallaahu anhu] narrates, ‘When Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] saw pictures (idols) in the Ka’bah, he did not enter till he gave a decree for their destruction. Thereafter, they were erased and Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] saw Ibraahim and Ismail (alayhimus salaam) within divining arrows in their hands. Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] said, ‘May Allah destroy them, I take an oath on Allah that they (Ibraahim and Ismail (alayhimus salaam)never predicted the future with diving arrows.’ (Ibid)

In another Hadith, Jaabir (alayhimus salaam) mentions that there were pictures in the Ka’bah. Nabi [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] commanded Umar [radhiallaahu anhu] to erase them. Umar (alayhimus salaam)went with a cloth and erased them with the cloth. Nabi (alayhimus salaam)entered the Ka’bah and there were no pictures remaining. (Musnad Ahmad vol.3 Hadith396)

**Thats your proof from Islamic Sources, I'm not here to convince, but pass on the message to you, the rest is up to you.

IF you can't comply by it, atleast UNDERSTAND that it is wrong, do not go about promoting it as Halaal, do not change the Deen of Allah swt.** ** **

Interpretation buddy interpretation! VAIN speech doesnt have to mean singing.. The word vain is defined as

"conceited: characteristic of false pride; having an exaggerated sense of self-importance; "a conceited fool"; "an attitude of self-conceited arrogance"; "an egotistical disregard of others"; "so swollen by victory that he was unfit for normal duty"; "growing ever more swollen-headed and arbitrary"; "vain about her clothes"
bootless: unproductive of success; "a fruitless search"; "futile years after her artistic peak"; "a sleeveless errand"; "a vain attempt"

How the heck can this be associated with Music?!?!? Granted vain speech can be Muscial in tone, but its just SPEECH... The point is, dont be vain in any format! Be it musical, written, or spoken.... Sorry I dont buy your scholar on this one.

As for the one regarding fornication and use of Musical instruments...

Imam Bukhari in his Sahih narrates:
There will be people from my Ummah who will seek to make lawful fornication, wearing of silk, wine and the use of musical instruments (Sahih al-Bukhari)

Now, this to me sounds like its saying, stay away from fornication... Mass orgies I suppose in which people disregard everything for the sake of earthly pleasure...

Now a literalist would say that we shouldnt wear Silk either, as thats also in the passage... But how ridiculous does one have to be to not understand that this passage does NOT refer to any specific habits, but is speaking of a general state of being and life style... Hence, music itself is not haraam, but living a decadant and conceited lifestyle is!

Im sorry if I dont buy into you research... Your satisfied by a simplistic and literalist view of Islam devoid of logic, I perfer one which is expansive, all encompassing and logical... Either you dont have the right context, or your turning a symbolic statement to mean something literal, which it wasnt meant to be.
Try to come up with a LOGICAL reason for why Music is Haraam instead of pointing to such scholars...

[Crescent]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

@PaKpatriot1

LOL Secular system is corrupt and the Dawah system is the solution???

You gotta be kidding me… Look around you buddy, those suicide bombers murdering anything that moves arent secular, they are the living example of you dawah system…

Islam is great, but who’s Islam are you talking about? Your Islam? Talibans Islam? Lal Masjids? Moderate? Most people in the country dont have a problem with music and entertainment, but does your Islam allow that?

Get real man, no one knows what a truly Islamic system is, but im sure terrorists trying to represent Islam, are willing to kill, murder, and pilige the country to try and impose whatever they think it is…
Reality check… A beard down to your feet doesnt give you the credentials to impose your understanding of Islam on others…

Thankfuly, there are sane individuals around who have the vision to make films such as this to expose the hypocracy of religous terrorists across the spectrum.

I have one thing to say to you. Go READ history. You lack alot of knowledge when it comes to the History of Islam.

We ruled three continents of this planet, until people started to modernize islam, and we were reduced to one state, which isnt’ really an islamic state anymore!

They should change the name of Pakistan to like, New America or something really.

@mYsTeRiOuS_gUy

Well done Shoaib Mansoor, some of us are still in denial that we do have PROBLEM in our society, these extremists hide behind religion and they have tarnished the name of Islam with their moronic attitude. Their actions have let the whole muslim umma down and they should be criticised and we should openly admit that we do have HUGE problem.
As far as music is concerned, most of you complaining about the movie listen to Indian crap 24/7 and you have no problems with that but now you are all calling music HARAM, stop listening to music first and show the whole world it’s HARAM (if that’s what you think).

Its one thing to say I listen to music, and I know its haraam. Thats acceptable, as you sin and you deal with your sins with God. BUT to make music halaal and justify it on means with no ground, is a BIG sin, 'cause you are trying to manipulate the religion of Allah swt.

Yeah these bearded guys have tarnished the name of Islam, but the beer drinking, beyhuda pana, sex promoting, explicit lyric writers of the entertainment industry have obviously not tarnished the image of Islam. Yeah…

@Mostar95

What about paintings and pictures of plants? They are also living things!

Those things aren’t animate, and from what I know are allowed.

[system]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

@Sharaabi

It definitely is a revival, but not of Islam. Lame attempt at reviving whatever they want to revive.

Satanists..

Ofocurse its a revival of ISLAM... It brings some sanity to Islam, brings people to the understanding that Islam isnt limited to the interpretation of some narrow minded beard in some little madrassa somwhere...
Islam has to be logical, not narrow minded.

[Crescent]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

Interpretation buddy interpretation! VAIN speech doesnt have to mean singing.. The word vain is defined as

"conceited: characteristic of false pride; having an exaggerated sense of self-importance; "a conceited fool"; "an attitude of self-conceited arrogance"; "an egotistical disregard of others"; "so swollen by victory that he was unfit for normal duty"; "growing ever more swollen-headed and arbitrary"; "vain about her clothes" bootless: unproductive of success; "a fruitless search"; "futile years after her artistic peak"; "a sleeveless errand"; "a vain attempt"

How the heck can this be associated with Music?!?!? Granted vain speech can be Muscial in tone, but its just SPEECH... The point is, dont be vain in any format! Be it musical, written, or spoken.... Sorry I dont buy your scholar on this one.

As for the one regarding fornication and use of Musical instruments...

Imam Bukhari in his Sahih narrates: There will be people from my Ummah who will seek to make lawful fornication, wearing of silk, wine and the use of musical instruments (Sahih al-Bukhari)

Now, this to me sounds like its saying, stay away from fornication... Mass orgies I suppose in which people disregard everything for the sake of earthly pleasure...

Now a literalist would say that we shouldnt wear Silk either, as thats also in the passage... But how ridiculous does one have to be to not understand that this passage does NOT refer to any specific habits, but is speaking of a general state of being and life style... Hence, music itself is not haraam, but living a decadant and conceited lifestyle is!

Im sorry if I dont buy into you research... Your satisfied by a simplistic and literalist view of Islam devoid of logic, I perfer one which is expansive, all encompassing and logical... Either you dont have the right context, or your turning a symbolic statement to mean something literal, which it wasnt meant to be. Try to come up with a LOGICAL reason for why Music is Haraam instead of pointing to such scholars...

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Yes mr scholar sir, Way ta go and refute the works of the world's most reknown scholars.

If your dream is to be a scholar, i'm sorry you're FAR from it.

Re-read your post and just comprehend how LOST you seem to be. nice try at your analysis, but again you're farrr from taking on the works of scholars.

Try spending 10-15 years in the path of Islam, then come up with some statements.

EVEN a average joe in Islam knows that every aspect in Islam is verified AND proven by facts pretaining to different Ambiya, Situations, Circumstances, and Quranic references, as well as the consensus of all the muslims who established the deen based on the Sunnah of the Prophet pbuh.

People dont just take words and explain them, they have comprehensive knowledge of their deen and then they come up with verdicts.

So my first advice to you, learn your religion, respect your scholars, and close the dictionary and pick up the Quran.

You talk about Logic, but fail to provide it when it comes to referencing it from the works of Religion.

And yet you still pray behind a Scholar who upholds these values, and you still adhere to the religion of the Prophet pbuh who condemned these acts.

[system]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

I have one thing to say to you. Go READ history. You lack alot of knowledge when it comes to the History of Islam.

We ruled three continents of this planet, until people started to modernize islam, and we were reduced to one state, which isnt' really an islamic state anymore!

They should change the name of Pakistan to like, New America or something really.

Its one thing to say I listen to music, and I know its haraam. Thats acceptable, as you sin and you deal with your sins with God. BUT to make music halaal and justify it on means with no ground, is a BIG sin, 'cause you are trying to manipulate the religion of Allah swt.

Yeah these bearded guys have tarnished the name of Islam, but the beer drinking, beyhuda pana, sex promoting, explicit lyric writers of the entertainment industry have obviously not tarnished the image of Islam. Yeah....

Those things aren't animate, and from what I know are allowed.

I have READ enough history buddy... And ALL I have to say to you is, stop reading everything literaly, nothing in life should be read literally...
YOU dont seem to understand HISTORY... Either your to young, or you simply havent read it... Im goiong to break this down for you..
1. Islam was on top for so many years BECAUSE it was modernist... Muslims trnaslated the knowledge of the ancient greeks (rather modernist there), then they used that knoweldge to further their own studies...

1. ISLAM accepted at the time, many different views and they accpeted and adopted the changing relaities of the world around them... If the hadnt, they would have still been nomadic camel hearders in Arabia... Hence, Islam was never "traditionalist" but ever changing... That is how it became an empire... Empires arent born in isolation of conformity, they have to be expansive in thought and in practice... Unlike today, where the world is changing and you would like to go back to the desert to heard camels... Come on man, face the reality of the world around you!

I have already exposed your scholars.

1. Muslims ruled three continents... Ok, but then where is your proof that modernism destroyed the Muslims? Since you have no understanding of this, I will tell you...
   Islamic emipires first broke apart because of in fighting and feuds...
   After which, IT WASNT MODERNISM THAT DESTROYED THE MUSLIM EMPIRES BUT LACK OF IT...
   Although in Europe, the Moors would have conquered all of France but for Charles Martel, who was able to unify Europe through the help of the Church and beat back the Moors.
   After which it was a slow decline, not because of Modernism, but LACK OF MODERNISM... European economies were CHANGING, they were more DYNAMIC! The Europeans were exploring the new world, they were gaining riches the Muslim world could only dream of... They were making navy vessels the envy of the world at the time... AL WHILE THE MUSLIMS WERE DORMANT! The Muslims were far to centralized under their govts... And Science and discovery were now mainly the domain of the Europeans... Granted the Europeans gained a lot through the Crusades.
   Also, the sacking of Baghdad by the Mongols was crippling blow to the Muslim world as it was the center of Muslim thought... Also the reconquista of Spain also destroyed much of Muslim prestige...
   Later this downfall, this lack of scientific knowledge and discorvery would result in powers such as the British and french taking over Muslim lands and turning them into their own colonies...
   None of this had to do with not being traditional, but it had EVERYTHING to do with not being modern...

2. America is powerful because its a modern nation, founded on modern principles... These principles arent devoid of relgious thought, but they are ever expansive and changing. And even though they are secular, their is far more social welfare, and justice then any Muslim country.. Just the fact that there are dedicated parking spots for handicapped persons speaks for itself... Handicapped people in the Muslim world are lucky to find a date.

And I listen to music and I KNOW ITS NOT HARAAM... You have given me no reason to doubt that conclusion...
The only sin is yours, someone who attributes illogical conepts to Islam and hence portrays it as backwards and nonsensical... If you truly loved Islam, you would make an effort to make it logical so as to present to the world without the colour of your own personal biases.

I dont listen to beer drinking behudaye, sex addicts for my incites on ISLAM... Thats the illogical portion of your mind making itself heard once again...
I listen to anyone with or without a beard, who is logical and pious... I keep repeating that word because logic is a very important concept in understaning life and relgion. One cant be devoid of the other...
If listening to Music were haraam, and it was logical, then I would accpet it. But since it is not logical, and since god is (as the Koran says), logical and just, then simple math will tell you that somehting thats not logical, cant be a part of Islam...

Now you tell me how Music be Haraam is logical, PLEASE!

[alooch]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

This movie has nothing to do with Islam like other paki movies......

1) muslim women can't marry a non-muslim 2) Music(vulgar and un islamic music) according to all the scholars of Islam is haram. 3) Painting living things is haram. Especially making pictures of faces of humans and animals with features.

End of Story.

Now whoever wants to follow Shoib Mansoor's religion, its up to him/her. And whoever wants to follow the religion of Prophet Muhammad(SAW) it is up to him/her. Most Pakistanis are getting far from Islam day by day, and credit goes to "Enlighted" modern hypocrites as well as ignorant radical muslims in Pakistan.

This situation is predicted in Hadiths that there will come a time when people who no nothing of Islam will be teaching about Islam.

Our biggest problem is that we are soooo far from the authentic sunnah of the Rasool (peace be upon him) that even the moderate things seem extreme and narrow minded to us.

If u look at it in the context of becoming close to Allah, how does listening to romantic and vulgar songs help u in any way?
How does spending more time trying to impress ur friends, trying to increase ur "ME" factor make u close to Allah?
But then, the super liberal one will reply, "ok so shud we blow ourselves up then? shud we sleep on the floor?"

and just then and there, you notice, their hypocrisy, and how they try to convince themselves that the only thing Islam tells u to do is blow urself up and don't eat kabobs everyday.

The impermissability of music, gold silk etc, all serve to limit the arrogance within ur hearts, we are all like ships on the sea, we can carry a lot of islam on us, but if we let too much of the dunya in our hearts, then our hearts will sink, and so will our Islam become lost, and all over the place.

Please treat these prohibitions as avenues of becoming close to Allah, and trying to prove how much u really love Him instead, despite ur love for the imperfect dunya.

May Allah guide us all as we all are in need of His Mercy, none of us is perfect Only Allah is

Allahumma Ameen.

[Sharaabi]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

@PaKpatriot1

LOL Secular system is corrupt and the Dawah system is the solution???

You gotta be kidding me… Look around you buddy, those suicide bombers murdering anything that moves arent secular, they are the living example of you dawah system…

Stop it PakiParrot…

The government that abducted and kidnapped hundreds of Pakistani citizens in the last 5-6 years is nothing but secular. The govt. and army that is bringing down masjids and islamic institutions in the country is nothing but secular. And else where in the World, the people who brought voilence back to Somalia…after Muslims brought peace to the land after 16 years…are nothing but secular, and the list goes on and on…

There is more killing being done by secular kuffars in this age, than any one has ever done in history. These people have killed and massacred to preserve their business interests…and yet people like you who have been fooled and brainwashed continue to believe what ever thats fed to them.

@PaKpatriot1

Islam is great, but who’s Islam are you talking about? Your Islam? Talibans Islam? Lal Masjids? Moderate? Most people in the country dont have a problem with music and entertainment, but does your Islam allow that?

Now this what proves that what you’re saying is anything but the truth. Its you folks..who have made versions of Islam. There are no versions of Islam. There is only one Islam that the Prophet left us. But you guys prefer to believe in the Islam thats being spread by the Collation Alliance today, which has no basis from the Quran and Sunnah.

When an Islamic ruling is shown to you poeple, together with its proof from the Hadith…you tend to reject the Hadith. This is no Islam dude…its plain Kufr.

[sweet_taboo]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

Shoaib Mansoor is racist and bigoted.

Not all Pashtuns or Mullahs are terrorists or terrorist sympathisers.

What does he aim to achieve by marginalizing major elements (Pashtuns, Mullahs) of our society and by breaking social taboos (Muslim girl with non-Muslim man)?

His movie will only cause a greater rift between different elements of our society, it will simply drive people away from our media.

He has no right to criticise Junaid Jamshed’s way of life or views, some liberals are exactly what they accuse Mullah’s of being.

We Pakis need to be working on unity despite our ideological and ethnic differences or foreigners will exploit them (and they intend on doing) to start a civil war in our country too… Both Mullah’s and liberals need to realise that sometimes we’re our own worst enemy by playing into the hands of outsiders thinking we're doing Islam or Pak a favour.

Learn from Iraq, Sunnis and Shi'ahs at each others throats thinking they're both doing Islam and Iraq a favour, outsiders are playing the divide and rule game with them.

Same in our country, Mullah vs. Liberal, Pashtun vs. Punjabi, Punjabi vs. Urdu-Speaking...

[system]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

@Crescent_

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Yes mr scholar sir, Way ta go and refute the works of the world’s most reknown scholars.

If your dream is to be a scholar, i’m sorry you’re FAR from it.

Re-read your post and just comprehend how LOST you seem to be. nice try at your analysis, but again you’re farrr from taking on the works of scholars.

Try spending 10-15 years in the path of Islam, then come up with some statements.

EVEN a average joe in Islam knows that every aspect in Islam is verified AND proven by facts pretaining to different Ambiya, Situations, Circumstances, and Quranic references, as well as the consensus of all the muslims who established the deen based on the Sunnah of the Prophet pbuh.

People dont just take words and explain them, they have comprehensive knowledge of their deen and then they come up with verdicts.

So my first advice to you, learn your religion, respect your scholars, and close the dictionary and pick up the Quran.

You talk about Logic, but fail to provide it when it comes to referencing it from the works of Religion.

And yet you still pray behind a Scholar who upholds these values, and you still adhere to the religion of the Prophet pbuh who condemned these acts.

LOL…

If some so called scholor told you to wipe your rear end with sand because toilet paper is haram, I suppose you would start doing that to:hehe:

If you dream is to be a good and knoweldgable Muslim, then Im sorry, you lightyears from that…

My intention is to understand Islam through logic… Your intention is to blindly follow whatever beard pops his head out of a madrassa door.

Try spending one day trying to think logically and then start dictating to others what is or isnt haraam.

Even the avergae Joe knows that whatver is proven, has to stand up to the test of logic.. And since Islam is the truth in every sense, then nothing in Islam can be beyond logic.. And yet, here you are trying to defend something as illogical and stupid as “music is haraam.” and all you have to defend it is some vague understanding of some hadeeth based on some idiot scholar, who himself, like you, took everything to be literal.

The term comprehensive, is ambiguis at best… The Koran and hadeeth are all open to interpretation… And just because one scholar thinks it should be interpreted in one, way, that doesnt mean we have to agree…
Particularly when its completely illogical…

I HAVE YET TO FIND A SCHOLAR WHO CAN EXPLAIN TO ME WHY MUSIC IS HARAAM, LOOOOOOOGGGGGICALLLLYYYYY!

YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO ME, OTHERWISE GIVE IT UP… If its not logical, its not ISLAM.!

[system]

Re: Khuda ke Liye- the hottest anti-Islamic movie in Pakistan

Stop it PakiParrot...

The government that abducted and kidnapped hundreds of Pakistani citizens in the last 5-6 years is nothing but secular. The govt. and army that is bringing down masjids and islamic institutions in the country is nothing but secular. And else where in the World, the people who brought voilence back to Somalia...after Muslims brought peace to the land after 16 years...are nothing but secular, and the list goes on and on...

There is more killing being done by secular kuffars in this age, than any one has ever done in history. These people have killed and massacred to preserve their business interests...and yet people like you who have been fooled and brainwashed continue to believe what ever thats fed to them.

Now this what proves that what you're saying is anything but the truth. Its you folks..who have made versions of Islam. There are no versions of Islam. There is only one Islam that the Prophet left us. But you guys prefer to believe in the Islam thats being spread by the Collation Alliance today, which has no basis from the Quran and Sunnah.

When an Islamic ruling is shown to you poeple, together with its proof from the Hadith...you tend to reject the Hadith. This is no Islam dude...its plain Kufr.

A govt that abducts people is not secular, its just corrupt... Thats only if those that were abducted are innocent of all crimes. If they are an imminent threat, then they deserve to be abducted to keep them from blowing themselves up in crowded places, then yeah, that not only justified, I would say its also Islamic! Because isnt it the duty of a Muslim to defend his fellow Muslims?

The govt isnt bringing down Masjids... A couple of illegally built Masjid were demolished, because they werent suppoed to be there anyways...
And NO Islamic institution is being attacked.. The govt has never attacked an Islamic institution, if anything the govt has helped expand them... If they truly were against Islamic instititutions, how then are there thousands of Madrassas dotting the landscape of the country?
The only institution that was attacked was the Lal Masjid... The Lal people were warned on countless occasion, 6 months!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone was begging them behave... Did they behave? Hell no...Hence they had to be attacked.

The Hadith isnt being rejected, we are saying that its misunderstood by people like you... Crescent posted some Hadeeth up there, I didnt refute them, I just explained my understanding of them, which is far more rational then his...
And there are MANY versions of ISLAM, the Taliban version, the moderate version, and the many many any others... No one will accpet one form of Islam and Islamic Sharia...

Its people like you, who are so convinced of your own narrow minded understaning, that you refuse to believe there are those who could have a different interpretation then you... Its you people who have created this gap between Muslims... Your refusal to accept that others are just as intelligent and pious.
Its your shallow understanding of an expanisve and dynamic relgion which causes all the problems...