KFC may not be halal after all in UK

Bad news guys…but you can make your own decision:

KFC Halal certification - statement of clarification
In the past few days HMC has been inundated with calls and e-mails relating to the new Halal status of some KFC outlets in London. Many have been confused and claimed that KFC has been certified by HMC.

  1. HMC has not certified any branch of KFC

  2. KFC has been certified by HFA (Halal Food Authority)

  3. There are clear differences in the Halal criteria employed by HMC and HFA

  4. Please refer to the table below that highlights the main differences

HMC: HALAL MONITORING COMMITTEE
Mechanical slaughter of chicken : Not allowed
Stunning: Not allowed
Bismillah read personally by manual slaughterman on every animal: Necessary
Inspector on site at time of slaughter : Yes
Outlets checked regularly : Yes

HFC: HALAL FOOD AUTHORITY
Mechanical slaughter of chicken : Allowed
Stunning: Allowed
Bismillah read personally by manual slaughterman on every animal: Not Necessary (as machine slaughter allowed so no manual slaughterman
Inspector on site at time of slaughter : No
Outlets checked regularly : No

  1. HMC believe it is important to clarify the Halal standards being adopted by different certifying organisations and companies in the UK to allow the consumer to make an informed choice when choosing to consume Halal.

  2. It is important you understand that HFA ALLOW machine slaughter!
    For further clarification please refer to our article on similar concerns raised about McDonalds in our Newsletter Issue No. 12 please click here

halalmc.net

Reading LAG
Halal Monitoring Committee
www.halalmc.org

http://www.kfc.co.uk/about-kfc/halal/

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

The above is information that has passed on to me ......I think everyone can judge themselves whether they believe its halal or not.....

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

Maybe HFA is sleeping with KFC?

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

so how exactly do the HFA reckon the meat is halal?

Very good question stoppit

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

I didnt even get a chance to go to ‘‘halal’’ one and you came up with that :naraz:

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

Yeah I almost bookd my train ticket from manchester to london , to get to that halal outlet … I guess I wont be going anymore:hinna:

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

All, please do own research on HFA, whether they allow mechanical slaughter and recorded bismillah's etc.

Whilst HMC is definitely classed as halal, does it mean that everything that is NOT HMC certifified is NOT halal? No it does not, because HMC is an option that not all halal slaughter houses have chosen to adhere to, but it does not make them all haram.

If anyone has findings, please post here. Thanks.

Your right Rupay halwa, however if this information is correct then HFA definitely cant be halal because they stun animals and thats not something which is classified as halal.....also no one reads bismillah...

But the problem is we dont know how correct this information is

If you type in google: stunning a animal before slaughtering it explains it all

HFC: HALAL FOOD AUTHORITY
Mechanical slaughter of chicken : Allowed
Stunning: Allowed
Bismillah read personally by manual slaughterman on every animal: Not Necessary (as machine slaughter allowed so no manual slaughterman

Guys pls feel free to go ahead and post any other information you find....

a couple of points and some reading material, draw your own conclusions.

  1. HMC has been around since 2003, HFA has been around since 1994.

  2. the issue I have here is that HMC has chosen to basically not give the whole truth in their statement.

  3. I have trouble trusting people and groups who try to hoodwink me by giving incorrect and incomplete information.

below is a statement from HFA. read it and compare it to HMC’s statements.

Halal Food Authority :: Definition of Zibah

Definition of ZibahAllah says in the fifth chapter of Qur`an Al-Maida 5:3 that

Forbidden unto you is the dead (carrion) and, blood and flesh of swine and, what hath been slaughtered in the name of any other than that of Allah, and the strangled, and beaten to death, and killed by a fall and gored to death by a horn, and that which the wild beasts ate, except that which ye slaughter (in accordance with the prescribed law)

Zibah is the method or the act of slaughter also known as zibah-al-Ikhtiyaariy by which an animal or a bird is slaughtered by a Muslim by saying shahada or tasmiya, Bismillah Allahu Akbar. If the slaughter is not done by zibah method, any meat or derivatives from such carcasses cannot be deemed to be halal or permissible for Muslims to consume. Requirements for zibah are:

The animal or bird should be alive and healthy at the time of slaughter.

Animal skin or fur, and bird feathers must be clean prior to slaughter and be free from faeces, mud or other unhygienic substances

Stunning is not used to kill the animal or the bird

A licensed Muslim slaughterer should slaughter by pronouncing shahada or tasmiya (when the knife is put on the throat of the bird of animal being slaughtered) “Bismillah Allahu Akbar”;

All the flowing blood should be drained out from the carcass by natural convulsion

Whence slaughtering is carried out in a mechanised plant, say for, poultry slaughtering, because of expediency of machinery and fixed blade operation, licensed Muslim slaughterman/men should be present to do the rendition of shahada. Number of slaughtermen depends on the speed of the machine/line. Generally it is accepted that a healthy young male can recite shahada approximately fifteen hundred times per hour. It is therefore, suggested that we have 2-3 Muslim slaughtermen at the slaughtering station/s of medium abattoirs. These slaughtermen would also slaughter with full recitation of shahada any bird/animal that are missed by the machine.

Halal Food Authority :: Meat and Poultry :: Slaughter Procedures

Slaughter ProceduresThe slaughterer must be an adult Muslim, and holder of a current slaughtering license accorded by Meat Hygiene Service.

The knife to be used must be razor sharp; the blade must be straight and smooth, and free from any serration, pits, notches or damage. The length of the blade must be at least four times the width of the neck of the animal to be slaughtered. The blade must not flex noticeably whence in use.
The animal must not be anaesthetised, stunned to be killed or otherwise rendered wholly insensible prior to slaughter. It must be conscious and alive when it is slaughtered.
Poultry and other birds must be restrained either in an upright or prone position for slaughter.
Lamb, sheep, goats, calves (of less than 60kg dead weight) and other similar sized animals must be placed on a cradle for slaughter and if hung on shackles all efforts are made that they do not injure or bruise themselves.
Larger bovines, equines, deer and similar sized animals must be restrained in a standing position for slaughter.
The act of slaughter (Zibah-al-Ikhtiyaariy) must be done with a simple swipe across the neck. The cut should not be any deeper than necessary to sever the carotid artery, jugular vein and windpipe and must not sever the spinal cord. The slaughterer must pronounce aloud the Arabic words, Bismillah, AllahuAkbar (in the name of Allah, Allah is the greatest) in a reverential tone, when slaughtering.
The Jugular vein, windpipe and carotid artery should be cut by a single swipe of a sharp knife, without damage to the spinal cord.
After being slaughtered, lambs, sheep, goats and other similar sized animals must be restrained in situ for at least 20 seconds. Bovine and other similarly sized animals must be restrained in situ for 60 seconds. Poultry and other birds must not be subjected to any further processing for at least 20 seconds. During the aforementioned period they must not be further injured, nor subjected to unnecessary stress or pain. Indeed it is desirable that efforts are made to clam them during this period.
The slaughterer must clean the knife after slaughter of every animal or bird and must check that the knife still conforms to above rules. If damaged, the knife must be replaced. If it is no longer razor sharp, it must be sharpened, say, on a flat stone and approved by an HFA inspector before further use. Note that the knife must not be sharpened in sight of animals awaiting slaughter.
The slaughterer or supervisor must ensure that all the flowing blood has been drained from the chicken or ovine or bovine carcass.
The water used during the poultry de-feathering process must be at the lowest practical temperature in vogue.
No dorsal cut is allowed, since this method would slice or sever the spinal cord and the bird or the animal is rendered incapacitated to convulse to drain the flowing blood out of the carcass
At the abattoir, slaughterhouse, distribution centre and retail outlets, DEFRA (Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs), Meat Hygiene Services (MHS), European Union (EU) and local hygiene laws and regulations should always be adhered to, and strictly followed at every stage of the process.

Definition of Halal Origins of Halal Origin of HFA HFA Achievements Gallery Page Definition of HalalThe word ‘halal’ literally means permissible- and in translation it is usually used as lawful.

The Halal food Authority rules for halal are based on Islamic Shari’ah. Opposite to halal is haram, which means unlawful or forbidden.

It is well known in the meat trade that Muslims consume halal meat. However, at times questions are asked, what is halal? In Arabic it simply means permissible or allowed. Opposite to it is haram, which means forbidden or not allowed. Arabic is the language of Qur`an, a scripture revealed to the Holy Prophet of Islam by the Almighty Allah to be followed in its entirety by the Muslims.

Now to make meat halal or permissible, an animal or poultry has to be slaughtered in a ritual way known as Zibah. To make it readily comprehended halal is somewhat like Jewish kosher and, Zibah is with some exception similar to Shechita. The Qur`an gives following underlined injunctions in chapter al-Maida 5:3 that
Zibah require animals to be alive and healthy at the time of slaughter, since carrion is forbidden and, jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe have to be severed by a razor sharp knife by a single swipe, to incur as less a pain as possible. Here the only difference is that a rabbi will read what is required by his faith and, a Muslim will recite tasmiya or shahada, which fulfils the requirement of dedication. The question of how to overcome the issue of recitation of shahada on individual bird whence we now have poultry being slaughtered at a rate of six to nine thousand per hour, has already been addressed. A Muslim is commanded to commence all his deeds in the name of Allah.

All the flowing blood (al- An`am 6:145) must be drained out of the carcass, as blood is forbidden

Swine flesh is also forbidden, and it is repeated in few other places in the Qur`an

Forbidden is an animal that has been killed by strangling or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall

What now becomes abundantly clear for halal purposes is that:
An animal should not be dead prior to slaughter

A Muslim should perform slaughter

Any flowing blood of the carcass should be completely drained

Choice of modern and in vogue method has to be considered with caution and, it should be mirroring to the Islamic ethos

Since pork is forbidden, halal slaughtering must not be done where pigs are slaughtered or in the vicinity of pigs slaughtering area. There are a few more edicts and rules that have to be followed in the interest of animal welfare. For example, animal has to be fed as normal and given water prior to slaughter, one animal must not see the other being slaughtered, knife should be four times the size of the neck and razor sharp, and as far as possible the slaughterer and the animal should face Qibla or Mecca and, animal must not be suffering with any ailments or any lacerations.

Halal Food Authority :: Definition of Halal

Stunning?

Aids prior to slaughter
Generally it is believed that for humane killing stunning modes and methods have been in use for a long time. We all know that for sure it is not the fact and it is untrue. It is only a few decades old engineering and still is in experimental stages. It is the expediency of the machinery for the numbers and volume which the viable commercial enterprise requires, for some kind of immobilisation of animals on the slaughtering line, to avoid injury to all concerned and bruising of the carcass. Bruised and bloodshot parts are neither to be sold, nor are they allowed in any way in achieving required financial yields.

There are four known methods of rendering partially or completely immobilising the animals:

Captive bolt system used mainly on cattle
Gas system for asphyxiation
Electrical stunning for ovine animals and / or
Electric-water bath stunning, the type used for poultry
Captive bolt used on cattle smashes its brain to smithereens and this causes animal to die prior to slaughter. Hence it is irreversible procedure and cannot be deemed to be halal. Similarly gas smothers the animal or the bird and there is no known revival method, so this is also not allowed.

Since majority of abattoirs, because of the wordings of the EU directives or for some given reasons use stunning prior to slaughter, we at the Halal Food Authority have researched and scrutinised it. It was categorically then encapsulated in halal rules as stated earlier, that because of the possibility of death prior to slaughter, no stunning is allowed to be used to kill the animal. However, at the initiative of the Meat and Livestock Commission, Mr. Steve Wotton of Division of Food Animal Science of Department of Clinical Veterinary Science of the University of Bristol, has developed a prototype method of stunning and have produced a stunner together with Hellenic Co., by which the animal will not succumb to the shock and can also be sent back to grazing pasture duly revived. How does it work?

Unlike ordinary stunning method where animal loses only 50-60% of the blood volume at exsanguinations - that is bleeding in simple terms- because cardiac arrest takes place and animal never recovers consciousness and, there is a reduced convulsion. This somewhat fail safe new system of head-only stunning, is reversible. Electric dosage though is of high frequency and electrode are sharp, this pre slaughter stunning in not painful. It is defined as being at humane level and within the remit of the relevant EU law and with an auto-calibration system for current monitoring and there is a very accurate record of stunner’s performance.

Logging systems enable a progress check separately on every animal individually. In test conditions it was found that animal whence slaughtered bled profusely with convulsions. Animals do revive naturally, within a safe period if spared from slaughter for whatever reason.

There could still be a prevailing opinion of a section that even this fail-safe method does not mirror to the Islamic requirement. For reasons that electric shock is unethical and, in the knowledge and opinion of the critics there is no guarantee of feasibility of revival. It has, time and again to the contrary to this belief, been proven that animals do regain consciousness within a desired period.

It is also argued that since even Jewish faith does not subscribe to stunning, why should the Muslims even contemplate to look at it. The evidence is that although the quantity of kosher meat is small and can be operated manually, it is now emerging that there is some leaning by some Rabbinical section towards the possibility of adopting the system. We Muslims have to be positive and should not appear to pre-typify technology and at the same time ensure that we do not change or seem to be changing the dietary laws as commanded by the Scripture, the Holy Quran and the Shariah, the Islamic jurisprudence.

Halal Food Authority is satisfied that this system is superior to, and there is potential for further improvisation and, safer than the one in use for halal slaughter in New Zealand and Australia. Thousands of tonnage of meat is exported from these aforementioned countries to a considerable number of Muslim States and, is used even here in the UK We are given to understand that Steve Wotton has nearly completed his work on Poultry Stunner Monitor as well, and this in due course could be a good news for providers of halal poultry and the consumers. Needless to say that there is a dire need of constant halal inspection, audit and stringent monitoring of the developing situation.

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

HMC info also said something about HFA does not check outlets regularly. HFA states they do monitor and audit the facilities.

here is info from HFA

Halal Food Authority :: Approved Slaughterhouses

Approved Slaughterhouses In the UK the slaughterhouses for bovine, ovine and poultry slaughter, together with turkey rabbit etc. are operating under EC licenses. These are governed by the Meat Hygiene Services regulations and are audited and regularly inspected by the MHS inspectors. All slaughter houses have a particular four digit number allocated to them, for example 2346, with an EC as a prefix to denote EC approval.

The Halal Food Authority (HFA) licences participating slaughter houses on a contractual basis, by licensing these, to oversee that there is always a licensed Muslim slaughterer to do the every day slaughter and the carcass and the meat portions are easily identifiable as halal. Apart from observance of the relevant slaughtering regulations, for example Welfare of Animal Slautering and Killing Regulations 1999 (WASK 99/400). the HFA slaughtering rules have to be adhered to. One of these is that the slaughter house where pigs are killed is never to be licensed to partake in Muslim ritual slaughter. Also slaughter house should neither trade or stock pigs on the same lines or rails or walk-in chillers. There should not be any pig or pork in the vicinity of the plant.

**The HFA inspectors have access to the plant, under the agreement, to audit, monitor and correct any aspect of the slaughter which does not conform to Islamic ethics or ethos. **Approval to trade in halal is given on the basis of total compliance of animal welfare regulations, EC and MAFF laws and adherence of the HFA rules. Apart from MHS audit and inspection the HFA checks compliance and logging of HACCP.

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

here is an interesting link. The site actually criticizes HFA for being against stunning. differentiates between stunning to kill vs stunning to make animals unconscious and has some interesting studies from various meuslim groups on the allowability of the latter.

Fatwa on Stunning Animals in Islam.

The Opinions of the Ulema on the Permissibility of Stunning Animals
The stunning of animals for halal meat was until recently a non-issue. However, over the past few years many people have mistakenly been informed that stunning animals renders the meat as haram. This is a complete fallacy. As with most things in Islam there are differences of opinion.

The origins of this fallacy originate from a certain halal food authority that has decided not to certify any company that uses meat from stunned animals. On closer inspection of their position it is clear that they are simply implementing this policy as a “caution”. They do not state, and can not state, that the meat from stunned animals is haram. This is because it is well documented that meat of stunned animals is completely halal under certain conditions.

Scholars of fiqh, the people who understand, interpret and explain the shariah, are more or less unanimous that the meat of stunned animals is halal. For those that have been informed that stunning somehow is haram or makes the meat haram, they should question why their opinion contradicts that of the fuqaha. The following are just some of many fatwa stating that stunning is halal.

Exerpt of fatwa from the Council for Legal Verdicts at Dar al-Mustafa for Islamic Studies (Yemen).

“Exposing the animal to an electric shock is unlawful in itself. As for the legality of the meat if the situation is as the questioner described - that the animal recovers and returns to its natural state twenty seconds after having been stunned - then it is lawful (halal) even the animal is in a lifeless state at the time of slaughter (such that it cannot see or hear and is unable to move). This is because the shock in itself is not a cause of the animal’s death.” Read the whole fatwa.

Excerpt from “Animals in Islam” by Al-Hafiz B.A. Masri

"The main counsel of Islam in the slaughter of animals for food is to do it in the least painful manner. All the Islamic laws on the treatment of animals, including the method of slaughter, are based in all conscience on “the spirit” of compassion, fellow-feeling and benevolence:

“Allah, Who is Blessed and Exalted, has prescribed benevolence toward everything and has ordained that everything be done in the right way; so when you must kill a living being, do it in the proper way - when you slaughter an animal, use the best method and sharpen your knife so as to cause as little pain as possible.” (The Sahih Mulsim, 2:156. Also Al-Taaj fi Jaami al-Usool, Vol. 3, p. 110, Cairo Edition. Also Al-Faruo min-al-Kafi, p. 2, and others.)

Failure to stun animals before slaughter causes them pain and suffering. Muslims should give serious thought to whether this is cruelty (Al-Muthiah). If so, then surely the meat from them is unlawful (Haram), or at least, undesirable to eat (Makruh).

Al-Azhar University in Cairo appointed a special committee to decide whether the meat of animals slaughtered after stunning was lawful. The committee consisted of representatives of the four acknowledged Schools of Thought in Islam, i.e. Shafii, Hanafi, Maliki and Hanbali. The unanimous verdict (Fatwa) of the committee was:

“Muslim countries, by approving the modern method of slaughtering, have no religious objection in their way. This is lawful as long as the new means are ‘shar’ (Ahadd) and clean and do ‘cause bleeding’ (Museelah al-damm). If new means of slaughtering are more quick and sharp, their employment is a more desirable thing. It comes under the saying of the Prophet(s) ‘God has ordered us to be kind to everything’ (Inna’l-laha Kataba-'l-ihsan 'ala kulle Shay’in).” (The History of Azhar, Cairo; 1964; pp. 361-363)."

To crown all verdicts (Fatawa), here is the ‘Recommendation’ of a pre-eminent Muslim organization of this century - The Muslim World League (Rabitat al-Alam al-Islami). It was founded in Makkah al-Mukarramah in 1962 A.C. (1382 A.H.) with 55 Muslim theologians (Ulama’a), scientists and leaders on its Constituent Council from all over the world. MWL is a member of the United Nations, UNESCO and the UNICEF. In January 1986 it held a joint meeting with the World Health Organization (WHO) and made the following ‘Recommendation’ about pre-slaughter stunning (No 3:1. WHO-EM/FOS/1-E, p. 8):

“Pre-slaughter stunning by electric shock, if proven to lessen the animal’s suffering, is lawful, provided that it is carried out with the weakest electric current that directly renders the animal unconscious, and that it neither leads to the animal’s death nor renders its meat harmful to the consumer.”

Egyptian fatwa Committee, December 18th 1978

“If the electro narcosis of the animal or any other anaesthetic procedure helps bleed the animal while weakening its resistance during the bleeding, and if this electro narcosis has no effect on its life (that is to say, if the animal comes back to normal life if the bleeding does not take place) it is allowed to resort to electro narcosis or any other similar type of anaesthetic procedure before the bleeding. The meat of the animal bled in that way is licit”

Sheikh al-Hassan bin Al-Siddiq, president of Belguim’s Islamic Coincil of Ulama

“We (the Muslims) do not view ‘direct slaughter’ (the traditional Islamic method) as being unkind to animals, Nevertheless, Islam does not prohibit pre-stunning when necessary. as long as the animal does not die (from the stunning),”

Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada

"As for stunning the animal, it does not make the animal dead, for it is intended only to knock the animal unconscious so that it does not feel pain and it is brought under control. This itself does not render the animal impure and unlawful unless it is dead before slaughter. My own experience with the slaughterhouses is that they do not make use of animals that are already dead before slaughter. Inspectors, who are appointed by the government (in countries such as Canada), do make sure that this is not the case.

As far as the wisdom of stunning is concerned, it is really in conformity with the wisdom established in the Prophetic hadith in which the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is reported to have said, “Allah has prescribed excellence and compassion in all things, so when you kill, kill well; when you slaughter, slaughter well, and let him sharpen his knife and spare the animal pain.”

In conclusion, we are definitely allowed to partake of such meat, especially if we do not find meat provided by Muslims."

Sheikh Muhammad Al-Mukhtar Ash-Shinqiti, Director of the Islamic Center of South Plains, Lubbock, Texas

"As for the claims by some scholars that a lot of these animals die as a result of being stunned before having their jugular vein slit; I conducted research on this subject and found that these claims are baseless. This is so because the reports by the general inspector of the US Government confirmed that a lot of animals do not get affected by the stunning so when they are slaughtered, they still experience pain.

Muslim scholars who forbid the consumption of beef based their argument on the assumption that stunning kills the animal before their jugular vein is slit. This is not true according to the report released by the general inspector."

Except from The Department of Islamic Development Malaysia’s guidelines to halal slaughter

"5.3 STUNNING OF ANIMALS

Stunning of animals prior to slaughter is permitted and shall be in accordance with the requirements below :

5.3.1 Three types of stunners shall be used to stun the animal, namely electrical, mechanical or pneumatic stunner.

5.3.2 The use of the stunning equipment shall be under the control of a Muslim supervisor or a trained Muslim slaughterman or Halal certification authority at all times.

5.3.3 The animal should only be stunned temporarily. The stunning should not either kill or cause permanent injury to the animal.

5.3.4 Gadgets that are used to stun pigs shall not be used to stun animals for Halal slaughter."

Conclusion

If after reading this one still believes that stunning an animal (temporarily) renders meat as inedible for being haram, then this is their choice. However, to call it haram and to tell others it is haram flies in the face of logic, reason, the ulema and Islam.

Allah knows best.

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

Whats with the huge lines at KFC these days? Is there grilled line up really that good?

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

kuch khaas nahi

dude all i care is that it better be cooked properly, their fried chicken is undercooked ..yuck.

so test it out and let us know if it is good, and how it compares to lets say Boston market's rotisserie..btw most of the grocery store rottisserie is not cooked properly either, its a little on the slimey side, i tell the ppl to let mine run for a few extra minutes.

i think the issue is that if they cook it on lower heat for longer period it may be better, the higher heat shorter duration makes it cooked on the outside but slimey inside.

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

Tabu and X2, thanks for your input.

People, please don't get me wrong, I try to buy HMC where I can, BUT I personally would NOT say that HFA is not halal.

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

KFC is/was Halal? since when :konfused:

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

WILL NOT READ THIS THREAD

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

^well u read the title thts enough :p

Re: KFC may not be halal after all in UK

WILL TRY TO FORGET THE THREAD TITLE

..seriously guys.. stop ruining it for me :bummer: