Keep Away From Sects

Society Religion & Philosophy
81

^^
The above post is bringing the discussion to a conclusive end.

The sect/group/person, living in, as he is living in ayam al-Jahliyyah – how come he claim that he is the saved-sect.

The above question does not prove that the sect I (Myself) belong to is a saved-sect. Neither we are discussing about it. The question here whether Ahle–Sunnah fulfills the criteria of the hadith mentioned in beginning of the thread and the one you just posted in your last post. Long story short, since it is not fulfilling the criteria according to these Aahadith, we can not claim for it that it is a saved-sect. so we are not in a position of advising others to “Keep Away From Sects”.

One more thing I want to mention here;
During a discussion if one person admit that he is wrong somewhere/somehow it does not mean that the other person is defiantly correct.

If you are saying that you are living in ayam Al-Jahliyyah it does not mean that I am living in a guided environment.(This is not the question). To see in which environment I am living in; we shell have to see it separately but this was not the topic of discussion here neither I have made any claim in a separate thread like rehman1.

Thanks for a healthy dicussion; Wasalam

82

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by inuit: *
^^
The above post is bringing the discussion to a conclusive end.

The sect/group/person, living in, as he is living in ayam al-Jahliyyah – how come he claim that he is the saved-sect.

The above question does not prove that the sect I (Myself) belong to is a saved-sect. Neither we are discussing about it. The question here whether Ahle–Sunnah fulfills the criteria of the hadith mentioned in beginning of the thread and the one you just posted in your last post. Long story short, since it is not fulfilling the criteria according to these Aahadith, we can not claim for it that it is a saved-sect. so we are not in a position of advising others to “Keep Away From Sects”.

One more thing I want to mention here;
During a discussion if one person admit that he is wrong somewhere/somehow it does not mean that the other person is defiantly correct.

If you are saying that you are living in ayam Al-Jahliyyah it does not mean that I am living in a guided environment.(This is not the question). To see in which environment I am living in; we shell have to see it separately but this was not the topic of discussion here neither I have made any claim in a separate thread like rehman1.

Thanks for a healthy dicussion; Wasalam
[/QUOTE]

.

83

*Inuit * - - Sorry I do not agree that “The above post is bringing the discussion to a conclusive end.”

I am really pressed for time so could not post my reply to your last post. Insha’Allah if I manage to ‘steal’ some time tomorrow I will post my reply.

Meantime I am going to do a Cut & Post job - I apologise for this It’s the first time I doing it – I think]

It is very interesting and covers the very hadeeth in question.

*In the Absence of the Jamâ’ah By Shaykh ’Alî Hasan al-Halabî *

*What to Do in the Absence of the Jamâ’ah *

Hudhayfah - radiallâhu ’anhu - said:

The people used to ask the Messenger of Allâh sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam about the good, but I used to ask him about the evil from fear that it would overtake me, so I said: O Messenger of Allâh! We used to be in jâhiliyyah (ignorance) and evil, then Allâh brought this good to us, so is there any evil after this good? He said: “Yes.” I said: And is there any good after that evil? He said: “Yes, but it will be tainted.” I asked: What will taint it? He said: “A people guiding others with other than my Sunnah, you will approve of some (of their actions) and disapprove of others.” I asked: Then is there any evil after that good? He said: “Yes! Callers to the Gates of Hell-Fire, whoever responds to them in that will be thrown into it.” I said: O Messenger of Allâh! Describe them to us. He said: “They will be from our own people and speak our language.” I said: What do you order me to do if that should happen in my own lifetime? He said: “Stick to the Jamâ’ah (united body) of the Muslims and their Imâm.” I said: What if they do not have a united-body nor an Imâm? He said: “Then keep away from all those sects even if you have to bite upon the root of a tree, until death overtakes you and you are in that state.” [3]

So this is a very great and important hadîth, since it contains: “A very clear statement of fact connected to the present condition of the Muslims today, since they do not have an established Jamâ’ah (united- ody), nor an Imâm who has the bay’ah (pledge of allegiance). Rather, they are split into separate parties which differ in their thoughts and their systems also. So this hadîth shows that the Muslim, in the like of this situation, should not take part in joining the parties, nor unite with any group or sect - as long as the Jamâ’ah which has at its head an Imâm having the pledge of allegiance of all the Muslims is not present.” [4]

Al-Hâfidh Ibn Hajar (d.856H) explains in Fathul-Bârî (13/35) the chapter heading given by al-Bukhârî for this hadîth, so he said: “And it means: What should the Muslim do in the state of disunity before there is ijmâ’ (consensus) upon a Khalîfah?”

“And the wording of the hadîth clearly shows that the conversation between Allâh’s Messenger sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam and Hudhayfah - radiallâhu ’anhu was about unity and disunity with regards to the political field. And the final question (asked by Hudhayfah) totally applies to the new situation that has occurred in the Islâmic world at the end of the ’Uthmânî Khilâfah and after its collapse.

So the answer obligates sticking to obedience to the Amîr (leader) and joining together under his banner. However, if the state is reached where there is no longer any Amîr and each one is pleased with his own opinion, then it is obligatory to avoid all the groups and sects who struggle with one another to attain the position of Amîr (leader) and authority - and their only aim is authority, and they have no clear ’aqîdah ... However, if a just Muslim Imâm appears, then it is obligatory to align behind him. So here, the vileness of what the political parties are based upon is clear.

Since, the order is to stick to the Jamâ’ah and the Imâm, and to stay clear of all the sects - however much hardship that causes. It also shows the vileness of hizbiyyah (partisanship) and splitting into groups formed upon the basis of race, nationalism, territory, language, and their like - and upon the basis of differences in ’aqîdah (beliefs) and Islâmic rulings. So this hadîth gives us a firm standpoint for the situation in this age in which we live.” [5]

Thus, what is binding upon the Muslim is: “To avoid all (such) people, even if it means biting upon a root of a tree until death overtakes him. This is better for him than entering into a group having no Imâm, for fear of what this will lead to - corruption through differing desires and forsaking opinions.” [6]

Imâm Ibn Jarîr at-Tabarî (d.310H) said: “And the hadîth shows that when a people do not have an Imâm, and the people split into parties, then no one is to be followed in that state of disunity - avoiding all of them if possible - for fear of falling into evil.” [7]

Since in disunity there is a resemblance to the people of Jâhiliyyah (pre-Islâmic ignorance) who: “Did not have an Imâm to unite them upon a Dîn and a single view, and their Dîns (religions and ways of life) were varied.” [8]

And Allâh - the Most Perfect has rendered the people of Islâm above this, throughout the ages and differing conditions.

Here, there are two further points to be noted:

** [1] ** What Imâm ash-Shâfi’î (d.204H) - rahimahullâh - said in his book Ar-Risâlah (nos.1319-1320), about sticking to the Jamâ’ah of the Muslims:

“If their Jamâ’ah is spread out through the lands, then no one can stick to a body of people who are separate. It may also be that the people found together are composed of Muslims and kâfirs (unbelievers), and pious and wicked - so then there would be no meaning to uniting bodily since it is not possible, and also because uniting into a mass of bodies does not produce anything.

So sticking to their Jamâ’ah would not have any meaning, except sticking to what their Jamâ’ah is agreed upon, with regards to what is halâl (lawful) and harâm (prohibited), and obedience in that. So whosoever says what the Jamâ’ah says has stuck to them, and whosoever opposes what the Jamâ’ah of the Muslims says, has opposed their Jamâ’ah which he was ordered to cling to. And error occurs in disunity, but as for the Jamâ’ah, then it is not possible for all of them to be in error about the meaning of a text of the Book, the Sunnah, or qiyâs (correct analogy) - if Allâh wills.”

Because of this, ’Abdullâh ibn Mas’ûd - radiallâhu ’anhu - said his well-known golden saying, referring to the absence of the Jamâ’ah of the Muslims: “The Jamâ’ah is whatever agrees to the truth, even if you are alone.” [9]

So there is no place for parties, disuniting and transformations. Rather, there has to be a coming together upon the correct manhaj (methodology), and a rallying around the Straight Path and the clear and guided way.

** [2] ** No one should think that our showing the hadîth to be a forbiddance of separate parties means that we say: “That work should not be done to bring about Islâmic life and to create a society ruled by Allâh’s Laws. Rather, these things are the fruits of following the way of guidance - even if those who follow it are few. So what is considered is the one who speaks the truth, not the one who merely speaks first; and also the quality, not merely the quantity.” [10]

So his sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam’s saying: “Even if you have to bite upon the root of a tree.” So, in order to bite to the root of a tree, then this does not mean that you have to stay at a distance from the Muslims, or abandoning ordering the good and forbidding the evil, and totally avoid the Muslims, as some of them - without right - think!!

Rather, that is not true, since the word lau “if” in the Arabic language [11] necessitates here: avoidance of something, in order to avoid what is contrary to it. Since quite often withholding from joining the sects and the parties - which is what has been ordered to avoid and keep far away from does not involve biting upon the root of a tree. Therefore, the meaning is *: “If keeping away from those sects can only be done by biting (on the root of a tree), then that is what must be done.” * [12] This is due to the severity of what this involves.

The order to remain aloof refers to the places of trials and disunity, and that it in no way implies that you leave: “the Ummah of Islâm and its obligatory function, with which Allâh sent down His Books and sent His Messengers: ordering good - and the greatest of that is Tawhîd, and forbidding the evil - the worst of which is Shirk. This being established upon knowledge, controlling the self with objectivity, being filled with mildness, patience and certainty.” [13]

Not as is the situation with our Ummah today, since: “We are afflicted with those who push themselves forward in giving da’wah to Allâh - the Most Perfect, the Most High - and make lawful political assassinations and barbaric rabble-rousing, and seeking help against falsehood with further falsehood.” [14] So by this they negate the noble duty and lofty task, whilst thinking that they are doers of good!!

84

cont’d

References

  1. From Ad-Da’wah Ilallâh bainat-Tajammul-Hizbî wat-Ta’âwunish-Shar’î (pp.99-101).
  2. This is the title of a chapter given by Imâm al-Bukhârî in his Sahîh (13/35).
  3. Related by al-Bukhârî (no.7084) and Muslim (no.1847).
  4. From the words of our Shaykh al-Albânî - hafidhahullâh - on a cassette-tape from the series: Silsilatul-Hudâ wan-Nûr (no.200/1) compiled by our brother Muhammad Abû Laylâ.
  5. Al-Ahzâbus-Siyâsiyah (p.88) of Shaykh Safiyyur-Rahmân al-Mubârakpûrî.
  6. ’Umdatul-Qârî (12/193) of Imâm Badrud-Dîn al-’Aynî.
  7. Ibn Hajr quotes it from him in Fathul-Bârî (13/37) and agreed to it.
  8. Al-’Uzlah (p.58) of Imâm Abu Sulaymân al-Khattâbî.
  9. Reported by Imâm al-Lâlikâ‘î in Sharh Usûl Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamâ’ah (no.160).
  10. Mu’allafât Sabd Hawwâ Dirâsatan wa Taqwîman (p.170) of Salîm al-Hilâlî.
  11. See Mayaman-Nabû (p.315) of ’Abdul-Ghanî ad-Daqr.
  12. ’Umadatul-Qârî (24/194) of al-’Aynî.
  13. Hukmul-Intimâ (p.91) of Shaykh Bakr Abû Zayd.
  14. Fusûl fis-Siyâsatish-Shar’iyyah (p.87) of Shaykh ’Abdur-Rahmân ’Abdul-Khâliq.

http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/ibaanah/vol3_r.htm

85

Aslam-o-Alakum bro Ibn Sadique,

Thanks for the efforts, and take your time. dont worry.

Wasalam,

86

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ibn Sadique: *
**Inuit * - - Sorry I do not agree that “The above post is bringing the discussion to a conclusive end.”

I am really pressed for time so could not post my reply to your last post. Insha’Allah if I manage to ‘steal’ some time tomorrow I will post my reply.

Meantime I am going to do a Cut & Post job - I apologise for this It’s the first time I doing it – I think]

It is very interesting and covers the very hadeeth in question.

*In the Absence of the Jamâ’ah By Shaykh ’Alî Hasan al-Halabî *

*What to Do in the Absence of the Jamâ’ah *

Hudhayfah - radiallâhu ’anhu - said:

The people used to ask the Messenger of Allâh sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam about the good, but I used to ask him about the evil from fear that it would overtake me, so I said: O Messenger of Allâh! We used to be in jâhiliyyah (ignorance) and evil, then Allâh brought this good to us, so is there any evil after this good? He said: “Yes.” I said: And is there any good after that evil? He said: “Yes, but it will be tainted.” I asked: What will taint it? He said: “A people guiding others with other than my Sunnah, you will approve of some (of their actions) and disapprove of others.” I asked: Then is there any evil after that good? He said: “Yes! Callers to the Gates of Hell-Fire, whoever responds to them in that will be thrown into it.” I said: O Messenger of Allâh! Describe them to us. He said: “They will be from our own people and speak our language.” I said: What do you order me to do if that should happen in my own lifetime? He said: “Stick to the Jamâ’ah (united body) of the Muslims and their Imâm.” I said: What if they do not have a united-body nor an Imâm? He said: “Then keep away from all those sects even if you have to bite upon the root of a tree, until death overtakes you and you are in that state.” [3]

So this is a very great and important hadîth, since it contains: “A very clear statement of fact connected to the present condition of the Muslims today, since they do not have an established Jamâ’ah (united- ody), nor an Imâm who has the bay’ah (pledge of allegiance). Rather, they are split into separate parties which differ in their thoughts and their systems also. So this hadîth shows that the Muslim, in the like of this situation, should not take part in joining the parties, nor unite with any group or sect - as long as the Jamâ’ah which has at its head an Imâm having the pledge of allegiance of all the Muslims is not present.” [4]

Al-Hâfidh Ibn Hajar (d.856H) explains in Fathul-Bârî (13/35) the chapter heading given by al-Bukhârî for this hadîth, so he said: “And it means: What should the Muslim do in the state of disunity before there is ijmâ’ (consensus) upon a Khalîfah?”

“And the wording of the hadîth clearly shows that the conversation between Allâh’s Messenger sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam and Hudhayfah - radiallâhu ’anhu was about unity and disunity with regards to the political field. And the final question (asked by Hudhayfah) totally applies to the new situation that has occurred in the Islâmic world at the end of the ’Uthmânî Khilâfah and after its collapse.

So the answer obligates sticking to obedience to the Amîr (leader) and joining together under his banner. However, if the state is reached where there is no longer any Amîr and each one is pleased with his own opinion, then it is obligatory to avoid all the groups and sects who struggle with one another to attain the position of Amîr (leader) and authority - and their only aim is authority, and they have no clear ’aqîdah ... However, if a just Muslim Imâm appears, then it is obligatory to align behind him. So here, the vileness of what the political parties are based upon is clear.

Since, the order is to stick to the Jamâ’ah and the Imâm, and to stay clear of all the sects - however much hardship that causes. It also shows the vileness of hizbiyyah (partisanship) and splitting into groups formed upon the basis of race, nationalism, territory, language, and their like - and upon the basis of differences in ’aqîdah (beliefs) and Islâmic rulings. So this hadîth gives us a firm standpoint for the situation in this age in which we live.” [5]

Thus, what is binding upon the Muslim is: “To avoid all (such) people, even if it means biting upon a root of a tree until death overtakes him. This is better for him than entering into a group having no Imâm, for fear of what this will lead to - corruption through differing desires and forsaking opinions.” [6]

Imâm Ibn Jarîr at-Tabarî (d.310H) said: “And the hadîth shows that when a people do not have an Imâm, and the people split into parties, then no one is to be followed in that state of disunity - avoiding all of them if possible - for fear of falling into evil.” [7]

Since in disunity there is a resemblance to the people of Jâhiliyyah (pre-Islâmic ignorance) who: “Did not have an Imâm to unite them upon a Dîn and a single view, and their Dîns (religions and ways of life) were varied.” [8]

And Allâh - the Most Perfect has rendered the people of Islâm above this, throughout the ages and differing conditions.

Here, there are two further points to be noted:

** [1] ** What Imâm ash-Shâfi’î (d.204H) - rahimahullâh - said in his book Ar-Risâlah (nos.1319-1320), about sticking to the Jamâ’ah of the Muslims:

“If their Jamâ’ah is spread out through the lands, then no one can stick to a body of people who are separate. It may also be that the people found together are composed of Muslims and kâfirs (unbelievers), and pious and wicked - so then there would be no meaning to uniting bodily since it is not possible, and also because uniting into a mass of bodies does not produce anything.

So sticking to their Jamâ’ah would not have any meaning, except sticking to what their Jamâ’ah is agreed upon, with regards to what is halâl (lawful) and harâm (prohibited), and obedience in that. So whosoever says what the Jamâ’ah says has stuck to them, and whosoever opposes what the Jamâ’ah of the Muslims says, has opposed their Jamâ’ah which he was ordered to cling to. And error occurs in disunity, but as for the Jamâ’ah, then it is not possible for all of them to be in error about the meaning of a text of the Book, the Sunnah, or qiyâs (correct analogy) - if Allâh wills.”

Because of this, ’Abdullâh ibn Mas’ûd - radiallâhu ’anhu - said his well-known golden saying, referring to the absence of the Jamâ’ah of the Muslims: “The Jamâ’ah is whatever agrees to the truth, even if you are alone.” [9]

So there is no place for parties, disuniting and transformations. Rather, there has to be a coming together upon the correct manhaj (methodology), and a rallying around the Straight Path and the clear and guided way.

** [2] ** No one should think that our showing the hadîth to be a forbiddance of separate parties means that we say: “That work should not be done to bring about Islâmic life and to create a society ruled by Allâh’s Laws. Rather, these things are the fruits of following the way of guidance - even if those who follow it are few. So what is considered is the one who speaks the truth, not the one who merely speaks first; and also the quality, not merely the quantity.” [10]

So his sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam’s saying: “Even if you have to bite upon the root of a tree.” So, in order to bite to the root of a tree, then this does not mean that you have to stay at a distance from the Muslims, or abandoning ordering the good and forbidding the evil, and totally avoid the Muslims, as some of them - without right - think!!

Rather, that is not true, since the word lau “if” in the Arabic language [11] necessitates here: avoidance of something, in order to avoid what is contrary to it. Since quite often withholding from joining the sects and the parties - which is what has been ordered to avoid and keep far away from does not involve biting upon the root of a tree. Therefore, the meaning is *: “If keeping away from those sects can only be done by biting (on the root of a tree), then that is what must be done.” * [12] This is due to the severity of what this involves.

The order to remain aloof refers to the places of trials and disunity, and that it in no way implies that you leave: “the Ummah of Islâm and its obligatory function, with which Allâh sent down His Books and sent His Messengers: ordering good - and the greatest of that is Tawhîd, and forbidding the evil - the worst of which is Shirk. This being established upon knowledge, controlling the self with objectivity, being filled with mildness, patience and certainty.” [13]

Not as is the situation with our Ummah today, since: “We are afflicted with those who push themselves forward in giving da’wah to Allâh - the Most Perfect, the Most High - and make lawful political assassinations and barbaric rabble-rousing, and seeking help against falsehood with further falsehood.” [14] So by this they negate the noble duty and lofty task, whilst thinking that they are doers of good!!
[/QUOTE]

MashaAllah. This discussion is by far the best on this K-forum.
I will print out a few articles and discussion.

Jazak Allah and
Take Care

87

Re: Keep Away From Sects

Wa’Alaykum salaam brother? Sister? Inuit

I am sorry for the delay in replying to your post. The Flu Bug got me. My reply is a bit long so I have divided it into 3 posts. It makes life easy.

The above post is bringing the discussion to a conclusive end.

Masha’Allah! Are you declaring victory and bringing to discussion to an end? A bit hasty ain’t you?

Just because I said: “I am admitting that I don’t have a leader now. I am living in ayam al-Jahliyyah.”

and quoted the following hadeeth:

On the authority of Nafi that Abdullah ibn Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: “One who dies without having bound himself by an oath of allegiance (to an Amir) will die the death of one belonging to the days of Jahiliyyah.” (Sahih Muslim)

Has the above statement made you feel that discussion can come to end and you have nothing to answer?

You asked:

The sect/group/person, living in, as he is living in ayam al-Jahliyyah – how come he claim that he is the saved-sect.

Well, have some patience and please read the hadeeth again:

**“One who die without having oath of allegiance (to an Amir) will die the death of one belonging to the days of Jahliyah” ** - Doesn’t mean that he is personally Jahil (ignorant) but is living like in days of Jahiliyyah (Ignorance).

This is what exactly what Imam ibn Jarir at-Tabari (ra) said: [Extracted from my last ‘Cut & Paste’ post]: I hope that you did read the whole article, it explains the hadeeth every well.

“Imâm Ibn Jarîr at-Tabarî (d.310H) said: ** “And the hadîth shows that when a people do not have an Imâm, ** and the people split into parties, then no one is to be followed in that state of disunity - avoiding all of them if possible - for fear of falling into evil.” **Since in disunity there is a resemblance to the people of Jâhiliyyah (pre-Islâmic ignorance) who: “Did not have an Imâm to unite them upon a Dîn and a single view, and their Dîns (religions and ways of life) were varied.” ** And Allâh - the Most Perfect has rendered the people of Islâm above this, throughout the ages and differing conditions.”

I hope that the above has made things clear to you. The above shows that Sunnis accept that there can be circumstances when there will be no Amir/Leader/Imam.

And the present times is one such example.

There is a fundamental problem that you cannot accept the fact that Imamate/Leadership/Khilafaat can ever be absent because of your beliefs regarding Imamate/Leadership/Khilafaat are those of Shia. The beliefs you hold are as follows [correct me if I am wrong]:

-The world will be destroyed without Imam (Imam is the balance of the world).

-Imam is the only Khalifah of Allah in the earth.

-Imams are certain people that are appointed by God.

-Imams are infallible.

-Imam is the tool for obeying Allah, any acts of obedience without accepting the real Imam is meaningless.

-There were always Imams from the first day of Creation.

-Imams have a rank that is higher than of prophets (unless prophet himself is an Imam, e.g. our prophet (saw) or Sayyedana Ebrahim (as)).

-Imams have been blessed with complete knowledge of everything in the Universe and that nothing is hidden from them.

-Only these 12 know all the things about true Islam and true interpretation of Quran.

-The existence of Imam is that important that it is possible that an Imam exists but is hidden for more than 1200 years (like Imam Mahdi).

-After the holy prophet there are only 12 Imams with the above conditions.

  • Muslims are not considered Momeen (true believers) unless their understanding of Islam is not in agreement with the understanding of these 12 Imams.

Keeping the above in mind, I understand that it is just impossible for you to imagine Muslim Ummah without an imam or Leader/Khalifah.

The Sunni concept of Leadership/Khilafaat is at variance to that the Shia.

The following hadeeth clearly show that:

*"Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: ‘Prophet hood will last among you as long as Allah wishes it to last, and then Allah will raise it. Afterwards there will be the Khilafa according to the ways o f the Prophet hood as long as Allah wishes it to last, then Allah will raise it. Afterwards there will be hereditary rule (by consent) and it will last as long as Allah wishes, then Allah will raise it.

Afterwards there will be biting oppression and it will last as long as Allah wishes, then Allah will raise it. Afterwards there will be a Khilafa according to the ways of Prophet hood.’

And then the Prophet (peace be upon him) was silent." (Musnad Ahmad bin Hunbal)*

    • In the beginning the Khilafaat on the ways o f the Prophet Hood. - [Khulafa-e-Rashideen]
    • Then it will be upon be hereditary rule (by consent) - [Umawis, Abbasis and Uthmanis].
    • Later it will be will be biting oppression – [Present day Dictators/Presidents for Life/Self-Styled Kings and Shaikhs]
    • Lastly there will be Khilafa according to the ways of Prophet hood. [Imam Madhi (ra)]

Sunnis don’t have this concept of Imam/Leader/Khalifah for all times whatever the situation.

Sunnis consider only the Prophets to be infallible and not other human.

  1. We can have Leaders/Amirs who are the right path.

  2. Leaders/Amirs who have more good and less of bad.

  3. Leaders/Amirs who have more bad and less of good.

  4. Leaders/Amirs who are mostly bad. [Look at the present leaders- typical].

If any person who is active in promoting/propagating and trying to establish principles and authority of Islam back into society, than he is not considered as a Jahil/Ignorant to his Islamic duties.

Being member of Ummah without Amir/Leader/Imam he is liable/accountable for the affairs of the Ummah. On the Day of Reckoning if he can show for his personal efforts in trying to establish supremacy of Islam, he will have accounted for himself well.

Those Muslims who while living in similar situation couldn’t care less about the affairs of Ummah and establishing the authority of Islam will be accountable for their actions and held responsible for being passiveness.

How could you say that I am ignoring Prophet’s (Peace and Blessings be upon him) and instead am taking only statement into account?

The hadeeth in question is a dialogue between the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) and Hz. Hudhayfah (ra). Hz. Hudhayfah (ra) asking the questions and the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) responding to his questions.

Read the last question again. And it is: “If there is neither a group (of Muslims) nor a chief (what shall I do)?”

Meaning - what if there no group or an Imam/Chief/Leader.

For that condition when there is no group or Imam/Leader, the Prophet’s (Peace and Blessings be upon him) response was:

“Then keep away from all those sects even if you have to bite upon the root of a tree, until death overtakes you and you are in that state.”

I think this is the third time I am trying to explain this point to you. That the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) did not correct him by saying that the Imam will always be there.

He told Hz. Hudhafah (ra) what he should do if there was neither the group nor the Imam/Leader.

Please don’t say that I am not giving precedence to Prophet’s words when I have not.

If you are going to interpret the word ‘Chief’ as an Imam in Shia sense than the hadith in question will make no sense to you.

You know why?

According to your beliefs, you already an infallible Imam guiding you from a cave for last 1200 years.

The Saved Group/Sect is within Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama’aa - They have purest faith without any pollution of Innovation and neither do they follow their desires.

Another name for this Group/Sect is the Strangers - ‘Al Ghurabaa’.

The Prophet (Peace and blessing be upon him) said: “There will not cease to be a group from my Ummah victorious and steadfast upon the truth, those who abandon them will not harm them, until the command of Allah comes about. Saheeh Muslim and Sunan Abu Dawood.

In another hadeeth the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) said: “Islam initiated as something strange, and it would revert to its old position of being strange, so good tidings for the strangers.” ( Muslim, At-Tirmidthi, Ibn Majah, and Ahmad)

This hadith shows that Islam started weak and strange, then became strong and will then, at certain times and places go through a second state of weakness. Muslims who then stick firmly to their religion will have many dissenters and only few supporters. The believers at that time become like strangers or aliens even if they are in their own country. They will have many opponents who will not tire ridiculing them and they will have very few supporters among the masses.

Continued…

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Re: Keep Away From Sects

The Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) spoke many a times on a very important matter at different occasions. The Ulemah of hadeeth have collected such hadeeth having common interest [subject matter]. Many hadeeth on the same theme strengthen the authenticity of the hadeeth.

The hadeeth under discussion in the thread, narrated by Hz. Hudhaifah (ra) have other hadeeth which collaborate with it. I have posted them before in this very thread but am going state them here again for the effect. All these ahadeeth have the same theme at the Muslim Ummah will split into 73 sects and one will go to heaven.

Abu Amir al- Hawdhani said, "Mu'awiyah ibn Abi Sufyan (may Allah be pleased with him) stood among us and said, 'Beware! The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) stood among us and said': 'Beware! The People of the Book before (you) were split up into 72 sects, and this community will be split up into 73, seventy-two of them will go to Hell and one of them will go to Paradise, and it is the majority group (Jama'ah). - Sunan Abu Dawood (3/4580, English edn.

"Awf ibn Malik reported that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, 'The Jews split into 71 sects: one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 sects: 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose hand is my soul, my Ummah will split into 73 sects: one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.' Someone asked, 'O Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him), who will they be?' He replied, 'The main body of the Muslims (al-Jama'ah). - Hafiz Ibn Kathir in The Signs Before The Day of Judgement (pg. 14)

It is reported by Hazrat Abullah Ibn Umar (ra) that the Holy Prophet (saw) said: “Such a time, as passed over the Israelites, will surely come for my ummah also, even as the sole of a shoe is like that of the other; so much so that if anyone from amongst the Israelites had flagrantly committed incest with his mother, amongst my ummah too there will be such a man who will do this work. No doubt the Israelites were divided into 72 sects and my ummah will be divided into 73 sects all of which, save one will go to Hell." The Companions asked: "0 Apostle of Allah! Which is the sect that will go to Paradise"? He said: "That one which stuck to the path on which I and my Companions are." - al-Tirmidhi vol. 2, pg. 89

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Second Post

Please read the following ahadith:

A) Prophet Hood (meaning himself) will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain, then Allah will raise it up wherever he wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophet hood remaining with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, He will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Afterwards, there will be a reign of violently oppressive [Umayyad, Abbasids, Ottomans etc] rule and it will remain with you for as long as Allah wills it to remain. Then, there will be a reign of tyrannical rule (current nationalistic secular and totalitarian governments) and it will remain for as long as Allah wills it to remain.

Then, Allah will raise it up whenever He wills to raise it up. Then, there will be a Caliphate that follows the guidance of Prophet Hood." Then he fell silent. - [As-Silsilah As-Sahihah, vol. 1, no. 5]

*** the contents in the brackets are not part of the hadeeth.**

B) The Prophet declared: “This affair began with Prophet hood and as a mercy; then it will be mercy and Caliphate; afterwards it will change into a cruel monarchy, and finally into an iniquity and tyranny.” He also prophesied: “Surely, the Caliphate after me will last thirty years; afterwards it will be a cruel monarchy.” (Abu Dawud, At‘ıma, 11; Tirmidhi, At‘ıma, 39; I. Hanbal, 5.441.)

The first four Khaleefs were called Khulafah ar-Rashidin [many of the Ulemah include small reign of Hz. Hassan bin Ali (ra) among these].

Hazrat Abu Bakr (ra) was called Khalifatul Rasool Allah as he was direct successor/representative of the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him).

The rest chose to be addressed as Amirul Momineen.

Oppressive rulers
They were addressed as Amirul Momineen or Khalifatul Muslimeen.

The Tyrants Rulers:

Fahad, Musharraf, Sadaam, Mubarak and the other tyrants are NOT leaders of Muslim Ummah but rulers of their relevant countries. They don’t even pretend to speak for Islam or Muslims but for their own National interests.

Please note that Sunnis do not take knowledge form Khalifs accept those who were Companions (raa) of the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him).

We follow Ahlul Alim, whom Allah (swt) has blessed with knowledge.

Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) has highly praised Ulema al Haq

“The Ulema are the inheritors of the Prophets.”

**“The one for whom Allah wills good (khayr), He grants him Fiqh in the Deen.” ** al-Bukhari

“The one for whom Allah wills good, He grants him Fiqh in the Deen” [Ibn Majah].

“You are in a time of many jurisprudents (fuqaha), few speakers or lecturers, many who give and few who ask; so action in this time is better than knowledge. There will soon come a time of few jurisprudents, many speakers, many who beg and few who give; so knowledge in this time is better than action.” Hazzam bin Hakeem

Khalifs after the rightly guided khalifs held the Political power (Temporal Power) and the Ulema were the Guides of the Ummah

“O you who believe, Obey Allah, obey the Messenger and those vested with authority from among you.” (4:59)

“Then ask those who possess the Message (Ahl adh-Dhikr) if you do not know.” (21:7 and 16:43)

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Re: Keep Away From Sects

  1. To Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama’aa the household of Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) are:

His wives. [Please let’s not argue about this in this thread – You to your point of view and we to our point of view (backed of course by the Quran)

His daughters Hz. Zaynab(ra), Hz. Ruqayyah (ra), Hz.Umm Kulthum (ra) and Hz. Fatimah (ra)

The family of Hz. Ali (from Hz Fatimah (ra)) (Hz. Hasan (ra), Hussain,
the family of Hz. Aqeel (ra),
the family of Hz. Abbas (ra),
and the family of Hz. Jaffar (ra).

Additional some Ulemah also include Hz. Bilal Al Habashi (ra) and Hz. Salman Al Farsi as honorary members of Ahlul Bayt as the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) had said on occasions that these two were from his Ahlul Bayt.

These are the ones who Prophet Muhammad ordered us to dignify and respect. Hadeeth Al-Thiqlain did not testify to the infallibility of anyone of them, but raised their status within the Companionship of the Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him).

The Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him) had said the following too.

“I am leaving among you two things, which if you cling to, you will never go astray: The Book of Allah and my Sunnah. The two will not separate from each other, until you meet me at the Pool (Hawd).”

If you are under the impression that Sunnis do not follow the Ahlul Bayt than you have to prove it.

It will interest you to view the following thread. Sunni view on Shia Imams.

http://www.gupistan.com/gs/showthread.php?t=133174

I have made a statement that I am living in likes of days of ignorance and sticking to it and have provided with proof the learned are of the same opinion.

Your countries have been occupied. Your holy places are under the heel of the Kuffar.

Despite ‘red line’ drawn round the holy shrines, which you hold most dear, by Ayatullah Sistani for the Occupation Forces not to cross, they just did that and desecrated/damaged those shrines, killed thousands who felt honoured to defend them.

Forget about Sunnis, was there a big uproar among the Shias in Iraq, Iran or Pakistan. And this was the shrine of your first Imam?

My friend, you are living as much in “likes of days of ignorance” as we are.

If you admit to it or not, it doesn’t really matter. Everything is in the open for the people to see, and they do.

In the above quote of yours, you have made the claim that the Shia Sect is the Saved Sect.

Now, its time for you to back up your claim.

For the umpteenth time I am asking you to tell how you are “living under the leadership and Guidance of present imam and getting benefits from him”?

Why are you hesitating to back up your statement?

With respect to your belief in the Twelveth Imam we belief that he is a Myth.

According to the hadeeth literature Imam Mahdi (ra) will be born in Madinah near to the end of time.

His name will be Muhammad; his father’s name will be Abdullah and his mother’s name will be Aminah. Same as that of Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him).

If you see the situation in Iraq and Iran the Shia Ulemah are divided in their approach to the crisis.

Some are willing to fight the occupation forces while others are urging people to co-operate.

The Shia Ulemah are vehemently divided for and against the Concept of Wilayat Faqih.

How can there be such divisions if the community has the services of all knowing infallible Imam to Guide and lead them?

History backs the claim of Ahul sunnah wal Jama’a of being the ‘Saved Sect’.

After passing away of the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him), it was his Companions (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) who brought the surrounding Empires of Iran and Rome to their knees and spread Islam to these areas. [Your sect considers them all except for 4 or 5 to be hypocrites at the best and renegades at the worst, whereas there are tens of ayahs in the Quran where Allah (swt) has praised them.]

Their followers spread message of Islam to far away lands from Andalusia (Present day Spain and Portugal), Africa and far corners of Asia.

Can you tell me name of any followers of Ahlul Bayt who did the same? Just name me one country that was conquered in the name of Islam by Shias. [Not grabbed back form fellow Muslims].

Two major catastrophes have struck the Muslim Ummah in the past.

  1. Mongol Invasion and destruction and havoc it caused

  2. Crusades – 9 of them all together from 1095AD to 1291AD.

It was the people of Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama’a that laid down their lives to save the Lands of Islam from the Infidels.

Incidentally the above two catastrophes took place during the times of the Shia Twelveth Imam. There is no historical record to show any participation by the Shia in the defence of Lands of Islam.

I think I have said enough in this thread and hopefully this is my last post here. I have asked you some questions and I hope that you do not ignore to answer them.

Only if there is need I will come back to ask you to clarify yourself.

Was-salaam

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^^
The whole stuff is useless for this discussion because its not giving the answer to the following question. Which i have already posted above. For your convenience i am posting it again. Whatever else you say other than this; that is not concerned.

--------- >
--------- >

The question here whether Ahle–Sunnah fulfills the criteria of the hadith mentioned in beginning of the thread and the one you just posted in your last post. Long story short, since it is not fulfilling the criteria according to these Aahadith, we can not claim for it that it is a saved-sect. so we are not in a position of advising others to “Keep Away From Sects”.

< -------
< -------

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My only concern was to know about, what I have repeated in the above post.

If you think that just to fill-out pages proves victory. Its not hard to do for me too.

Prolonging the discussion just by adding irrelevant things; is not only wastage of time; and making the discussion more complicated but also shows that one is running away from the topic. Try to keep it simple and brief.

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I am not really surprised by your reply. Don’t worry I was not expecting you to agree with me at all. I would have definitely fallen off the chair [so would have many others among the viewers of this thread] if you agreed to my arguments!

Of course ‘the whole stuff is useless for discussion’ for you. Your only criteria for rejecting all the ahadith [that I had provided to back my claim] is that they go against your concept of infallible Imamate for all the times?

Whatever I posted was backed up by relevant ahadith with references. This debate is not taking place privately between you and me but on a on a public forum.

There are others who are viewing these pages [besides you and me] and I am sure they are in a better position than you to judge whether the ‘ahadith material’ I had provided is relevant to this thread or not.

I am not posting here to impress you or any one else, neither it’s my desire “to fill up pages to ‘prove’ that I can type.”

The theme of this thread is “To be with the saved Sect and away from the ‘deviant Sects. In the above 2 quotations of yours; you have claimed that the Saved Sect is Shia; “**The saved-sect (Shia) ** never gave precedence to anybody in…..” and that jyou have the ‘perfect Leader’ : “and living under the leadership and Guidance of present imam and getting benefits from him”.

Go ahead and fill up only a quarter of page and answer my questions if as you say: “If you think that just to fill-out pages proves victory. Its not hard to do for me too. “

The fact is not amiss to anyone viewing this thread that you have shied away from backing up your claims when challenged by me in my several posts.

This is a typical Ostrich reaction – ‘By burying the head in the sand and thinking that by not responding to/ignoring the challenge, the challenge somehow disappears.”

Are you just making very hollow claims? Or is it that you have nothing much to back such claims?

How about taking your own advice which you very kindly offered to me?

Be Brave - if you don’t have answer to this question; no harm in Admitting it. We are in continues processes of learning and our knowledge is growing. Growing shows that we are lacking something. No harm in saying “I don’t know”. or still working on it". nobody will disturb you.

I think the key in the above advice is **“Be Brave”, ** don’t you think?

Anyway, I am out of this thread now and will let you have the last word.

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^^ Nothing but some Useless Ranting :bukbuk:

And the questions still remained unanswered :stuck_out_tongue:

Dear inuit,
Sorry for interfaring, its your discussion and so far you have done a pretty good job. (I see some people are start losing their manners and running away for not finding the answer they were asked :rolleyes: )

Please allow me to backup your claim about Shia The Saved Sact from sunni sources which I am sure you are also well aware of :

numerous Sunni scholars have recorded hadith in which the Prophet (s) had said that the group that Allah (swt) describes as "the best of the creatures" (Qur’an 98:7)" are Ali and his Shi’a and that they will enter paradise.
1. Tafsir Ibne Jarir, Volume 33 page 146 (Cairo edition) narrated from Hadhrath Muhammad bin Ali (as)
2. Tafsir Durre Manthur by Jalaladeen Suyuti, in his commentary of verse 98:7 Volume 6 page 379 -3 separate chains.
3. Tafsir Fatha ul bayan Volume 10 page 333 (Egypt edition)

If the Prophet (s) said the best of creations are Hadhrath Ali (as) and his Shi’a, then in the same way that this verse is applicable until the end of the world, Ali (as)'s Shi’a will likewise exist to provide a practical commentary to it. The Ahl’ul Sunnah believe that 70,000 Muslims will enter paradise without answering any questions and Anas bin Malik, narrates that the Prophet (s) said that the 70,000 were Ali and his Shi’a.

1. Islam: The Basic Articles of Faith - According to the Beliefs of the Ahl al Sunna wa al Jama’a - a Modern English translation of Bahar-e-Shariat Part One (Unnamed author) page 67 - quoting a hadith to this effect.
2. Manaqib Ali al Murtaza, page 184 by al Maghazli (An ancient Shafi scholar)

“O Ali four people will enter heaven first of all. Me, you, Hasan, Hussain and your descendents will follow us and our wives will follow our descendents and our Shi’a will be to the left and right of us”.
al Sawaiqh al Muhriqa page 159, by Ahmad ibn Hajr al Makki (Cairo edition)

Ibn Sadique,

As Shi’a we follow Ali (as) and take the Sunnah from him in accordance with the dictates of the Prophet (s) who said to Ali (as) in the presence of the Sahaba:

“You are my brother and inheritor”, when the Companions asked what previous Prophets had left as inheritance, he replied “The Book of God and his Sunnah the teachings of that Prophet”.
Riyad al-Nadira, by Muhibbuddin al Tabari, Vol 3 p 123

Ali (as) inherited the Qur’an and Sunnah and his Shi’a have likewise taken their knowledge of the Qur’an and Sunnah from him. We are Shi’a because we see no other Hadi (guide) which will lead us to the right path.

Allah (swt) says about the Prophet (s): “Verily you are a Warner and for every nation there is a Guide”. Numerous Sunni authorities of Tafsir in their commentary of this verse have recorded that the Prophet (s) said: “I am Warner and Ali is the guide, he (s) then turned to Ali and said ‘Ali people will be guided through you’”. Other Sunni scholars have also recorded this hadith (3).
1. The Holy Qur’an Surah Ra’d verse 7
2. Tafsir Durr al-Manthur by Suyuti Vol4 p 45; Tafsir al Kabir, by Fakhruddin Razi in the commentary of the verse; Tafsir Ruh al Ma’ani, by Allamah Alusi
3. Mustadrak, by al Hakim, Vol 3 hadith 129 & 130

We view Imam Ali as our guide, Hadhrath Abu Bakr does not come within this definition in his inaugural speech he indicated that he would be turning to others for guidance:

“Now then: O people, I have been put in charge of you, although I am not the best of you. Help me if I do well; rectify me if I do wrong”
Tarikh al-Tabari, English translation Volume 9 p 201

Compare these words to the challenge of Imam Ali (as) related by Sa’id ibn al-Musayyab who said:

“None of the Companions say, Ask me (about anything you like)! except for Ali”.
History of the Khalifas who took the right way, by Suyuti, translated by Abdassamad Clarke, p178 (Taha Publishers)

Ali (as) also acted as source of guidance for the second Khalifa, to quote the Wahhabi scholar Nadwi “Umar was often exacerbated if Ali was not available to solve an entangled problem. He often used to say: ‘Umar would have been ruined if Ali was not there’..”
The life of Caliph Ali, by Abul Hasan Nadvi, page 202

When there exist clear hadith guaranteeing salvation for Ali (as)'s Shi’a on the Day of Judgement, why should we seek alternative groups to affiliate ourselves with? Our view is strengthened yet further when we read that Hadhrath Abu Bakr narrates that he heard the Prophet (s) say that: “No one will be able to cross the Sirat (Path) leading to Heaven on the Day of Judgement unless he gets the stamp of Ali”.
Al Sawaiq al Muhriqa, by Ahmad Ibn Hajar al Makki, page 126 (A book written against the Shi’a)

How can we turn to others, when Allah (swt) says in His Glorious Book: “On the Day when some faces will be bright and some faces will be black, And as for those whose faces will have turned black, it will be said ‘What did you disbelieve after believing, taste the chastisement for your disbelief’. And as for those whose faces are white, they shall be in the Mercy of God, they shall abide therein forever”.
The Holy Qur’an 3:106-107

It is clear from this verse that the successful Party on the Day of Judgement will be those, whose faces are bright. Now apply this verse to the following hadith, taken from two recognised Sunni works: “Three things have been revealed to me about Ali: That he is the Sayyid al Muslimeen (Chief of Muslims), Imam-ul-Muttaqeen (Imam of the Pious), and wa Qa’id ul Ghurrul Muhajj’ileen (Leader of the bright) face people on Yaum al Qiyamah”.
Al Mustadrak, by Imam Hakim, p 137 & 138
Riyad al Nadira, by Mohibbudin al Tabari, Vol 2, p 122

So Ali (as) will be the leader of the bright face people, the bright face people will follow him i.e. they will be his Shi’a and it is this group which will attain Paradise. The Prophet (s) said in a Sahih hadith that Muslims would be divided into 73 sects of which only one would attain paradise. It is for this sole reason that we connect ourselves with Ali (as).

Heres an other question for you Ibn Sadique. Hope this time you will take it seriaously and try to be presize.

As muslim we all believe in Quran which states:

“for every nation there is a Guide”

And as muslim we shi’ane Ali (as) know who our guide is at the present time, as you yourself stated above.** But who is yours??**

And if I was you, instead of counter questioning I would be looking for the answers of those pretty valid questions, cause on the day of Qiyahmah no bodys gonna save my neck but just me by recognising the imam/leader of the day.

Kher Andesh

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Re: Keep Away From Sects

^^

Thanks Zero01 for your input – JazakAllah. However this was not the question. What I am trying to tell these people whenever they come with the slogan “keep away from sects” after sometime they start preaching their sect Ahle Sunnah and start praising in people that his is the saved-sect and invite them to join it. However there are many sects with-in it.

This thread is a good exemplary document for the above I wrote. You see, initially rehman1 came with the thought “keep away from sects”, although people who make the slogans themselves don’t sometime accept the thoughts given in those slogans by heart. However they come along with it just to show that they believe in it. That is why rehman1 then posted an interpretation which showed that all ummatul-ijaabah will one day enter into Jannah, in support of the slogan he gave.

Just to test that how much this slogan coming from real heart feelings I asked certain questions; which took the discussion to a stage at which rehman1, Sa'ad1 & Ibn Sadique were saying that the saved sect is the one which is Ahle Sunnah or alike; although at one point Ibn Sadique accepted it that Shia can also enter in Junnah but they could not say openly that its only Ahle Sunnah and Sa’ad1 tried to cover it just by saying that he just wrote the characteristics of the saved sect; whoever it is, although he was using the terms Ahle Sunnah in his writings. At one stage rehman1 and Ibn Sadique showed different views specify the saved-sect for which Ibn Sadique over looked considering it an internal dispute of his mainstream and thinking to first deal with a shia. When the issue became hot and they could not show the name of their chief according to that hadith; Ibn Sadique totally denied the rehman1’s interpretation and stated that Ahle Sunnah is the only saved-sect and started using offensive statements against Shias. This is what I wanted to bring up and to show that what is in people’s their minds even when they make the slogans. To uncover this I even at one stage said Shia is the saved-sect. People make slogans what they don’t believe in; if this situation remains than how come we hope for a true united Ummah. You call my asking questions in this style a Munafqut or whatever; I found it. Its not in those people heart who make these slogans what they say with their tongue. Everytime I see these slogans I did not find any truth and reality in them.

Questions is not on Shias; whether they are saved sect or not; whoever they are following? The question in this thread is still on that Rehman1, Where is their chief; if there is no chief then how come we claim for the sect who don’t have any chief a Saved-sect. Ok, suppose with the help of some interpretations which Ibn Sadique and on some of those Rehman don’t agree we conclude that Ahle Sunnah is the saved-sect, then how come Rehman1 justify the interpretation which he posted from “The Permanent Committee for Islaamic Research and Fataawa Fataawa Islaamiyyah - Volume 1, Page 16”. If that was a mistake then the question is that why we just post stuff from internet without pondering.

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.

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Re: Keep Away From Sects

Talking about Sects; I read this passage in Quran the other day which is similar to what you stated in your first post. It says:

**Al-Imran:105

Be not like those who are divided amongst themselves and fall into disputations after receiving Clear Signs: For them is a dreadful penalty...**

Need I say more? This states clearly that Allah isn't interested in your sects or groups, he will judge you by your faith and beliefs. Do Ehl-e-Sunnat and Ehlay whatever blah blah don't read this ayah? Is it that hard to understand? It's a clear sign for all those muslims who make sure they say I'm SUNNI muslim or SHIA muslim when someone asks them. It's all our Aalims' and Imams' fault that all muslims are divided in groups and not united.

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Re: Keep Away From Sects

It was/is inevitable.

This was predicted in prophesies and this divide (or curse) of sects was/is inevitable. It is not humanly possible to eliminate this divide, it has to be done divinely. For this very purpose Imam Mahdi has been divinely appointed. Those who would differ with me on this, I challenge them to rid Muslim Umah of this curse. Any reasonable man or woman, with even a little ability to think will reach the exact same conclusion. I do not see either Shia, Sunnis, Wahabis or any of the 72 sects living in peace with each other until they are united together by Imam Mahdi, since every sect believes all others to be liars or at least misguided.

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Re: Keep Away From Sects

[quote]
Zer01
How can we turn to others, when Allah (swt) says in His Glorious Book: "On the Day when some faces will be bright and some faces will be black, And as for those whose faces will have turned black, it will be said 'What did you disbelieve after believing, taste the chastisement for your disbelief'. And as for those whose faces are white, they shall be in the Mercy of God, they shall abide therein forever".
The Holy Qur'an 3:106-107

It is clear from this verse that the successful Party on the Day of Judgement will be those, whose faces are bright. Now apply this verse to the following hadith, taken from two recognised Sunni works: "Three things have been revealed to me about Ali: That he is the Sayyid al Muslimeen (Chief of Muslims), Imam-ul-Muttaqeen (Imam of the Pious), and wa Qa'id ul Ghurrul Muhajj'ileen (Leader of the bright) face people on Yaum al Qiyamah".
Al Mustadrak, by Imam Hakim, p 137 & 138
Riyad al Nadira, by Mohibbudin al Tabari, Vol 2, p 122

So Ali (as) will be the leader of the bright face people, the bright face people will follow him i.e. they will be his Shi'a and it is this group which will attain Paradise. The Prophet (s) said in a Sahih hadith that Muslims would be divided into 73 sects of which only one would attain paradise. It is for this sole reason that we connect ourselves with Ali (as).
[/quote]

I've read this verse in Quran the one you stated from Al-Imran. Now, how you have explained the meaning is a bit different from what I believe it really means. That hadith states that Ali will be the leader of those with bright faces. That means he'll only be the leader in Heaven of all those Jannatis JUST LIKE Prophet (saww) told his daughter Fatima that she'll be the leader of all the Jannati women. Do not take the verse the other way and also the hadith. If THAT's what Allah meant by that then it all should've been in the Quran and not some hadith.

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Re: Keep Away From Sects

Then how would you interpret the statement: " Jamat kay saath ho jao"

Abu Dawood has quoted the following Hadith in his Sunan (3/4580, English edn):

Abu Amir al- Hawdhani said, "Mu’awiyah ibn Abi Sufyan stood among us and said, ‘Beware! The Apostle of Allah (PBUH&HF) stood among us and said’: ‘Beware! The People of the Book before (you) were split up into 72 sects, and this community will be split up into 73, seventy-two of them will go to Hell and one of them will go to Paradise, and it is the majority group (Jama’ah).’

Do you still say Ehl-e-Sunnat Blah blah ?