I’ve met many educated kashmiri muslim brothers, born and brought up in Valley and …working in top notch Companies of India and in US
…they project Kashmir as the last bastion of Secularism…how secular Kashmiri society is and their so called Kashmiriyat…how much they are in love with their so called kashmiri hindu brothers (whom they kicked out of their homes)
Do Kashmiris on Pakistani side have any similar version of Kashmiriyat or secularism they boast of???
Who exactly are you referring to? The term Kashmiri doesn’t mean very much in Pakistan. All of Azad Kashmir refers to itself as “Kashmiri” even though the native people there are essentially Jammuites. In Punjab, most of the people who call themselves Kashmiri the descendants of people who left Kashmir centuries ago to settle in Punjab (mostly around Amritsar until Partition), and are now culturally indistinguishable from their non-“Kashmiri” Punjabi neighbors.
The only actual Kashmiris in the proper sense of the word are a handful of migrants who left willingly during Partition, and the refugees who subsequently fled or were expelled during the Indian occupation. Who are you asking about?
Re: Kashmiri Muslims on Indian Side
Thousands of kashmiris who crossed to other side for their azaadi like syed salauddin and mushtak ahmad zargar.
Your question is obviously completely insincere (hardly surprising). In any case, here you go:
2006:
"Hizbul Mujahideen calls on Kashmiri pundits to return to their homeland. We hope the pundits will join the freedom struggle.” He said that the militant outfit would not allow the sale or illegal occupation of temples.](http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\08\13\story_13-8-2006_pg7_20)
Re: Kashmiri Muslims on Indian Side
Well young lady, this does not start from 2003 or 2006…
Here are few quotes of our brothers in Kashmiri Language…you should read Al-safa news daily of 1990…
As gachye Kashir batav rostiye batnyav saan
Translation in english: We want kashmir without kashmiri hindu men but with kashmiri hindu women.
*Ralliyve Chaliyve ya galyive
*
Translation in english:Convert..Flee away …or get killed.
Batni Batni dodyeah mas
Translation in english:Hey Kashmir hindu woman may your hair burn
Aye kafiro Aye Kafiro Kashmir hamara chod do.
Indian dogs get out of kashmir
Kashmir Ke Kafiroo Kashmir say Bag jao
Hindustan che dwade gaav, assi chhu bas yeth dwad kadun te chon
Translation in english: Hindustan is a milky cow, all we have to do is continue to drink its milk.
Your pro pak separatist leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani was taking retirement pension from govt till recently until media exposed his drama…the same govt he is fighting against
As per your separatist leader Javed Mir who claimed in TV “Hum kashmiriyon ki tawareekh 500 saal purani hai”. An average human lives 100 years, does that mean history of kashmir is of just 5 generations or is talking of just muslim history ??
Where was your kashmiriyat when hindu temples were vandalized and attacked after Zia Ul Haqs Death…did your hindu borthers kill Zia?? That was in 1980’s
When you guys are with Indian (muslims/hindus) you use choicest adjectives.hatred & spew venom against pakistan and the destruction pakistan brought in kashmir by bringing guns,kalashnikov culture, grenades, explosions and destruction of kashmirs future
But, when you are with non Indians you spew hatred against India..and you want americans to intervene
You guys want Indian ladoo in your right hand, Pakistani ladoo in your left hand and American ladoo in your mouths
Care to show me the actual newspaper pages with these threats? I’ve heard you Indians endlessly babbling about them for years, but have never actually seen them in print. One would think that if these threats were so serious they lead to the exodus of an entire community, someone would have thought to save the newspaper.
Also, before you embarrass yourself further…Al Safa is published in Urdu, not Koshur.
The Hindus were never targeted after Zia’s death. There were mass protests mourning Zia’s death, and the Indian forces shot and killed several protesters (as is their habit). As I recall, there was some Sunni-Shia tension at the time; the right-wing Sunnis accused the Shias of being happy over Zia’s death, but even that didn’t devolve into riots and sectarian violence.
If I’m not mistaken, you’re actually referring to the 1986 riots, which had nothing to do with Gen Zia or Pakistan. The state government in Jammu started allowing Muslims to pray a room adjoining a mandir in the civil secretariat; Hindus in Jammu claimed that their mandir was being converted into a mosque and began rioting; some Muslims in Kashmir responded by vandalizing temples (mostly around Anantnag). It was an unfortunate, and rare, event…it certainly was shameful for see Kashmiris involved in the kind of communal hooliganism that Indians are known for. Your army took over and damaged/destroyed far more temples over the past 20 years…but I know you’ll never criticize that. Just as I know you’ll never mention the fact that Kashmiri Muslims were instrumental in maintaining and repairing/rebuilding abandoned temples in the absence of the Pandit community:
No, we just want you both to leave us alone.
*As gachye Kashir batav rostiye batnyav saan
*Translation in english: We want kashmir without kashmiri hindu men but with kashmiri hindu women.
*Ralliyve Chaliyve ya galyive
*
Translation in english:Convert..Flee away …or get killed.
Batni Batni dodyeah mas
Translation in english:Hey Kashmir hindu woman may your hair burn
Aye kafiro Aye Kafiro Kashmir hamara chod do.
Indian dogs get out of kashmir
Kashmir Ke Kafiroo Kashmir say Bag jao
Do you deny Kashmiri muslims never uttered these slogans from loudspeakers of Masjids or in jaloos??
You claim only 215 hindus were assasinated during 20 years.
These, 215 hindus were killed in a span of 6 to 8 months during the start of militancy in 1989 to 1990, the rest managed to escape your wrath.
Its nice to see that you are using the word “Anantnag”,
Do muslims of kashmir still use Anantnag or have they changed it to Islamabad??? You have changed these names to islamic names to erase the history of your hindu brothers…Where was your kashmiriyat when you changed Anantnag to islamabad and Shankarcharya to Takht-e-Sulaiman???
Kashmir had best medical and engineering schools in North India funded by Indian money…but I dont think you guys deserve it…
May kashmir produce more sons like Dr Faisal Shah who topped IAS exam of this year.
As far as right of self determination is concerned, its either Pakistan way or Indian way…its high time to decide now.
Half Knowledge Is Not Good For AnyThing… Regarding Kashmir Here Are Some Of The Links Which Is Not Own By Indians Or Pakistanis Please Go Through History Then We Can Discuss And Debate On It
In 1947 the Indian Independence Act was passed, this meant that British India would be divided into two independent states, the Dominion of Pakistan and the Union of India. According to the Act, “the suzerainty of His Majesty over the Indian States lapses, and with it, all treaties and agreements in force at the date of the passing of this Act between His Majesty and the rulers of Indian States”, so each of the princely states would be free to join India or Pakistan or to remain independent. Most of the princes acceded to either of the two nations.
However the ruler of Kashmir wanted to remain independent, neither joining Pakistan or India, this led to war between the two neighbouring countries in which Kashmir became divided between them. Each government believes that the former princely state belongs to them in its entirety; this has led to several wars. The Kashmir conflict between the two nuclear neighbours remains one of the most intractable and longest running disputes on the United Nations Security Council’s agenda.
Whom Should We Blame For This… White Man Came From Ship Left Us In Pain And Agony
I thought those threats in colloquial Kashmiri were published in newspapers (that just happen to be in Urdu…oh those pesky details)? I see you’re jumping from one bombastic allegation to another.
Even after extensive investigations into human rights violations by militant organizations, international human rights organizations have found no evidence that mosques in Kashmir were broadcasting obscene threats. Pandit extremists and Indians certainly love to talk about it…and yet, no one can produce a single contemporary news article from 1989-90 to corroborate, even in the anti-Kashmiri Indian media. Surely if there was a day when “every mosque in Kashmir,” as you Indians like to claim, was hurling threats and obsenities at Hindus, then some Indian newspaper would have picked up the story? The militants certainly threatened and killed Pandit individuals, and the Jamat-e-Islami types did do some “Nizam-e-Mustafa” type sloganeering, but the rest is all Indian fairy tales.
Since you apparently enjoy reading Al Safa so much, this letter to the editor, as translated by Human Rights Watch, was sent in by a Pandit refugee organization on October 19, 1990:
I don’t. 219 is the official government figure, and I’ve posted numerous links to sources in the Indian media to corroborate.
I also find it amazing that you Indians have the audacity to accuse anyone of communalism. Your army massacred more than 300 unarmed protesters in Kashmir in January of 1990 alone. But you have no problem with that, or with the fact that they butchered thousands of other protesters…because most of the protesters were Kashmiri Muslims. And if there’s one thing I’ve learned from you people, in the eyes of an Indian, there’s nothing more worthless or expendable than a Kashmiri Muslim’s life.
I used it because Indians like you don’t know what Islamabad/Varmul/etc are.
Only Indian fools think the city was renamed after 1989.
Anantnag was referred to as Islamabad by Kashmiris long before 1989. The Mughals named the city Islamabad after a local governor named Islam Khan; the name was changed during Dogra Raj to Anantnag in an attempt to erase Muslim history. Common Kashmiris continued to refer to the city as Islamabad though without any issues; though when the army came in 1989 they tore down signboards outside stores and routinely beat and tortured people in the streets for the “crime” of referring to the city by its Kashmiri name.
Any other baseles allegations you’d like to make?
Wow.. so now India media has become anti-kashmiri muslim…you gave me evidence of your secularism from the same anti-kashmiri media…you guys pick and choose stories that only fits your agenda…anything that does not suit your agenda becomes shoddy journalism
For khandaani people like you.. history of kashmir starts from the mughal rule in kashmir, or from the day your forefathers migrated to kashmir…
Islam Khan ruled Anantnag in 1600’s, Anantnag was changed to islamabad under his rule…it was changed back to Anantnag under Ghulab Singh rule..
Prosecution of non muslims in kashmir did not start in 1989 but from the days of Mughals…I’m sure you know why that Sikh Teg Bahadur was killed???
Pakistanis did not cross the border to burn and loot the homes of non muslims…nor did the Indian army…next time you visit kashmir …please go to these vandalised temples and see the genital obsceneties and slur against pandits drawn on the walls..its just disgusting…
If you think Indian army is a trigger happy army…Why doesnt Indian army kill all so called anti-india leaders like Geelani, Malik, shabir shah, javed mir…
There were these so called liberated zones created in 1990 and militant organization ruled those areas…army was called in to dismantle those liberated zones and yes those operations were not clean…
One one hand your currupt people/employees love to embezzel Indian money…the money India gives to clean Lakes and build roads, hospitals… and on the other hand shout for azaadi…what kind of drama is that???
Nobody dares to ask Geelani, why he took pension from the govt, against whom he shouts everyday…Syed Salauddin has 6 sons, but not a single son has joined his jihad…??? Anyone who raises voice against them gets killed, just like Adbul ghani Lone was killed…go ask his son Sajjad who killed his father.
I learned long ago that bitter Indian communalists like yourself will automatically anything written by Kashmiris in the Kashmiri media, so I intentionally use items reported on in the Indian media. The fact remains that you have absolutely nothing from the contemporary Indian media to corroborate your allegations, so now you have no choice but to launch into rambling, nonsensical diatribes.
Like I said, the name was officially changed to Anantnag during Dogra Raj. Why does the fact that local residents continued to refer to it by its old name burn you up in side? Does your hatred really run that deep?
Because India knows far better than to kill prominent figures; that would attract too much international attention. Better to bleed out Kashmir by killing off tens of thousands of “unimportant” people and bludgeon the masses into submission. Burn down a remote mountain village and kill off most of its residents…and no one outside Kashmir will notice. Assasinate a vocal anti-India leader with an international presence, and it becomes more of a major incident. It’s why everyone knows that the Indian agents assasinated Mirwaiz Muhammad Farooq in 1990, but no one outside Kashmir cares about the 100+ people who were massacred when your barbarian army opened fire on his funeral procession. But that’s all okay right? Kashmiri Muslims are totally expendable, aren’t they? It’s only a crime if someone important, like any Hindu dies, right?
“Were not clean?” You people are utterly pathetic. Your army butchered tens of thousands of people, but since most of them were Muslims, you dismiss them as collateral damage. Your army was called in by Jagmohan when hundreds of thousands of Kashmiris peacefully took to the streets in 1989 and 1990, to demand their basic democratic rights. They saw the Berlin Wall come down, they saw the success of the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia. What they didn’t realize was that they weren’t dealing with civilized people…they were dealing with vile scum of the Earth, who didn’t think twice about calling in paramillitary forces to butcher unarmed civillians in the street.
I’ve never seen people so eager to defend war crimes and civilian massacres. But like I said, in the eyes of Indians, there’s nothing cheaper than a Kashmiri Muslim’s life.
If we’re so corrupt and evil, **THEN LEAVE. TAKE YOUR MONEY (AND YOUR ARMY) AND GET THE HELL OUT. **Go clean the lakes in Bihar, and build roads and hospitals in UP, and let us run our corrupt state as we see fit. Everyone’s happy, right?
Excellent point. If Kahmiris are so “corrupt” and such a drain of India’s resources then why not grant them what they want. End of drama.
Yes, you are currupt, thats the truth… end of story… Biharis take loans from Indian Govt, but you guys want and always take grants from the central govt. You take and never give anything back.
Remember once and for all…Kashmir is not baap ki jaagir of kashmiri muslims, just like bharat is not baap ki jaagir of hindus…
Kashmir valley will be divided just like any state gets divided if it gets independence…
Please inform your fellow muslims of kashmir, to vacate some part of the valley for their “brothers” as they will have their share of their homeland…
You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about.
Do you realize that the Muslims of UP, Bihar, Madhya Pradesh, Delhi, etc. all voted in favor of the creation of Pakistan, but (rightfully) didn’t get separate Pakistani enclaves built into their home states? Pakistan could only be carved out of those districts where a majority of the population supported Partition. As it stands, there isn’t a single tehsil in the Kashmir Valley where the majority doesn’t support independence.
And before you even bring it up, even before they migrated, even in major Pandit population centers like the Habbakadal and Rainawari neighborhoods in Srinagar (we’re not talking about tehsils or even towns now, but individual neighborhoods), Hindus only comprised 30-40% of the population.
The “Muslims of Kashmir” live in approximately 25% of the total land of the Indian state of J&K. By all means, keep the remaining 75% for all of the India supporters.
Does that mean muslims in MP,UP,bihar are pakistanis who live in India???What kind of a theory is this, musalmaans of hind are as Indians as are the hindus of india…muslims live in UP,MP,bihar coz they chose to stay in India…Gandhiji died rather killed by RSS for fighting for the right of muslims.
We are not talking of Independence of India…its independence of kashmir we are talkign about…If India or Pakistan is an alien land to muslims of kashmir so is it for kashmiri non muslims…
If country of kashmir gets independence why shouldn’t non muslim citizens of kashmir be given their right to Raj Shumari…why are they asked to give up their kashmiri citizenship and be a part of alien country India or Pakistan??? or forced to live with muslims of kashmir???
If non muslims of Kashmir dont want to live with their muslims “brothers”, they will have their own kashmir. Just like muslims of India had their Pakistan, in 1947.
If you are not willing to give their share, you are just like Shiv Sena or RSS..
You have 2 options
Accept 1947 solution.. be with either India or pakistan.
If you dont accept 1947 solution, and want Independence, then kashmir will be divided just like India was divided. End of story.
I’m just pointing out basic facts. During the 1946 elections, the Muslim League, campaigning on a pro-Partition agenda, won an overwhelming majority of the Muslim vote throughout what is now India…
Bombay assembly - Muslim League won 100% of Muslim seats
Madras - 100%
Orissa - 100%
MP/CP - 93%
Assam - 91%
Bihar - 85%
UP - 82%
Like I said, by your argument, Muslims from across India should have been granted mini-Pakistans in their respective states, because they all voted in favor of Pakistan’s creation.
Like I said, Kashmiri Muslims live on less than 25% of the total land in Indian-administered Jammu & Kashmir. The pro-India minority is welcome to the remaining 75% of the state.
Muslim League split into Indian and Pakistani sections. The Indian members of the League chose not migrate to Pakistan, formed the Indian Union Muslim League(IUML).
Muhammad Ismail won on Muslim League ticket from Madras Constituency, but he did not become a Pakistani, he chose to be an Indian. It was by choice. He became first president of IUML.
You have to give same choice to non muslim citizens of Kashmir. Either they can stay in muslim majority kashmir or get an independent kashmir for minority. It will be their choice.
Situation of Kashmir is exactly what the situation of India was in 1947.
Who cares?
In 1945-46, when those politicians were elected to office, there was only one Muslim League. And every single one of those Muslim League politicians campaigned on a pro-Pakistan/pro-Partition platform. The fact that some of those politicians later opted to remain in India for whatever reason does not change the fact that an **overwhelming majority of Muslim voters in modern-day India supported the creation of Pakistan in the 1946 elections.
**
By your ridiculous logic, every state in India should have had a mini-Pakistan carved out of it.
You’re clearly not listening. I already said, I think 75% of Indian-administered Jammu & Kashmir should remain in India in accordance with the wishes of the population there. Kashmiris live on less than 25% of the state’s total land, and those are the only areas where the overwhelming majority support independence. The pro-India population would get most of the state’s land…so again, what are you whining about?
Yes, Indian muslims care, coz we chose to live in India. What politicans??? we are talking of millions who chose to be Indian…Its only people like you who dont care…You cannot see anything good in india or pakistan for that matter, anti-india and pakistan venom runs in your veins…
We are talking about kashmir, not poonch, rajouri, doda, kargil, samba, or ladakh…we are talking about kashmir where kashmiris live…its different and distinct from these districts of J&K…
You have no right to tell non muslim kashmirs where to live???
Just like muslims of kashmirs will have their kashmir, so will non muslims…even if it means one and a half districts…You are no one to take their kashmir from them…
And who are you?? You have no moral right to speak on behalf of kashmiri nation…You are a persian migrant who came to kashmir 5 generations back…Your history in Kashmir is hardly of 4 or 5 generations…You are more than welcome to pack your bags and go back to persian land where you came from…Go back to your Khomeini. Kashmir does not need Khomeinis like you.
And take you sister Asiya Andrabi along with you…her famous qoute
I don’t believe in kashmiriyat, I don’t believe in nationalism. I believe there are two nations - Muslims and non-Muslims
I’m Andrabi, I’m from the Syed dynasty. I’m not actually Kashmiri, I’m Arab, my ancestors had come from Arabia to Central Asia.
Then why in God’s name did your grandparents all vote for Jinnah’s party and the creation of Pakistan in 1946? If you people love India so much, why did you vote to divide the country, then turn around and stay in the very same nation that you had rejected 1 year earlier? Are you people really that weak-willed, spineless, and fickle?
And Bihar and UP and MP and Maharashtra and Assam are all different and distinct from the areas that make up Pakistan & Bangladesh. Why did the Pakistan-supporters from there have to migrate to Punjab and Sindh? Why didn’t the Muslims in those provinces (80% or more of whom voted for Pakistan) get separate Muslim states within their repsective provinces? You want to divide up a small region (that accounts for less than 25% of the total land) within a province, then surely EVERY SINGLE PROVINCE in India where most Muslims voted for Pakistan should have had a mini-Pakistan carved out of it. Why doesn’t your utterly ridiculous logic apply to them?
You don’t know anything about my family, so keep your ridiculous accusations to yourself.