'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

TheHindu asked, Why not allow Kashimirs to settle anywhere in India and any Indian to settle in Kashmir? Kashmir is just our another state.

Mirwaiz Umar Farooq answers, You have to get your facts right. Kashmir is an international dispute recognised by India and Pakistan… It was India who took the issue to the UN and promised the people of Kashmir their right to self-determination. Kashmir is not like any other state of India; it continues to be a dispute unless its people decide what they want.

As asked, Dear Mirwaiz, if you are given azaadi from India what would happen to the Pakistan Occupied Kasmir and China Occupied Kashmir. Will you try to bring azaadi in those countries as well?

Mirwaiz Umar Farooq answers, **Kashmir means the entire state of Jammu and Kashmir as it existed on 14th august 1947, when we say the right it includes Jammu & Kashmir, Ladakh, Azad Kashmir and northern areas…
**

I Have Seen Many Threads About Kashmir Many And Most Goes Aganist India !! Always Asking For Freedom of Kashmir Now I Really Wanna Ask Everybody Who Ever Opened And Commented On Kashmir Threads

**What About POK(Pakistan Occupied Kashmir)? When Will POK get Freedom? **

**Source : - Mirwaiz Umer Farooq, chairman of the moderate faction of the All Party Hurriyat Conference, had an exclusive chat with the readers of rediff.com on Wednesday, September 22, where he spoke about the rationale behind the separatists’ renewed war cry for azaadi. **

Re: ‘Kashmir is not like any other state of India’

It is my belief that Kashmir was meant to be part of Pakistan if Kashmiri’s want out then by all means fine both India and Pakistan should let them have thier bit. :jhanda: Besides the war is like two bald men fighting over a comb, technically Kashmir is no good to either side in the state thier in now.

Re: ‘Kashmir is not like any other state of India’

if they want freedom let it be !! atleast we shall be free frm the bleeding wound

Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

off topic but i so dislike it when people call it "kashmir" b/c it gives no importance to the other many ethnicities of the whole state of J&K including the paharis, dogras, jats, rajputs, Gujjars, Bhotrajas, Pathans, Tibetans, Darads, argons, kargil buddhists. It's just erasing all these other people and regions of jammu and ladakh and only highlights kashmiri muslims and kashmir valley

the situation isn't at all as simple the different ethnicities of the whole state all have different opinions and political views and their own problems. but somehow the focus is only put on that tiny region of the valley how unfair is that

Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

Exactly my point have not all sides bled enough... Let there be peace.

Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

@faris...Yes True !! Now time has come to give them the practical dose of running an country :)

let them live only on fruits and handicrafts production ... more over let them first get all kashmirs who are spread across nation !

Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

why do kashmiri muslims that belong to the tiny region of kashmir valley that belong to indian side of j&k get to decide the fate of the whole state? a place that would be surrounded by giant china, pakistan, afghanistan and india and all these countries have had something to do with that whole region. will it be a lone country in the middle of the ocean all of a sudden? It'll be a major headache to india if it ends up being like afghanistan or worse than that

Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

i think they should face the reality now!! Lets give them freedom ... then Put them under solitude and it will teach them a lesson !

Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

^^^is it some fairy land that they would go to after independence though? the reality is that they will be surrounded by 4 countries, afghanistan is majorly unstable, yes the mountains do give them a little protection but seriously i would be worried and Jammu regions and ladakh regions are supposed to be forced to be independent against their will?

Ladakhis even have an association that asks to be separate from the kashmir valley b/c kashmir valley gets all the attention and the problems of the other regions are ignored. the ladakhi association wants to be a union territory within india permanently. i guess we force them to be independent too.

Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

I have never come across a more rude bunch, have both sides not bled enough??? what is that supposed to mean! Kashmir has been a play ground for Pakistan and India for decades. These statements have seriously pissed me off because i have gone there and seen how the people of kashmir suffer!

As for going with Pakistan , Pakistan cant even function without martial law!

And as for you boredman. U need to get some history books out and read about the resources that Indian Occupied Kashmir has. Do you think India is holding on to it just to stick a finger up at Pakistan! grow up and read about the occupation. As for teaching Kashmiri people a lesson, If someone in your family was killed, or your mother or sister was raped because ypou lived in a war torn occupied territory then maybe u would behave like more of a human. Im Pakistani and all i can say is that im ashamed that i have something in common with people like u. Move ur ass and get a ticket to Kashmir and see what these people have had to go through then talk!

Its really sad that fellow muslims speak in such away!

Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

Kashnmir is not a tiny state, get a map, kashmiri people requested a referendum so that everyone who is Kashmir would have right to chose. Kshmir has one of the highest literacy rates in India and is one of the richest states in India.

Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

just checkd your location Nisha u have lost ur way and boredman ur in India that says it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pathetic Individuals, If India was such a great country u wouldnt have child prostitution everywhere and slums, a Aids infested country that cant stop people for pssing in their stadiums. First learn to use a loo then talk!

Re: ‘Kashmir is not like any other state of India’

I will advice Pakistani friends to first take a look at their own country’s policy before commenting India’s. The precondition for taking any office in “Azad” Kashmir to swear this oath :

This applies to positions from president, Prime minister, Minister, Speaker, MPs , MLCs etc.

Furthermore,

You can read this Official constitution of “Azad” Kashmir here:
http://www.ajkassembly.gok.pk/AJK_Interim_Constitution_Act_1974.pdf

What this means is that no pro-azadi group can survive or established in Pakistan. Indeed Pakistan has *never *given support to the idea of J&K independence. It’s official position is that right to self-determination must be given to the people of J&K according to UN resolution. However there are two catches:

  1. The plebiscite can only be held once Pakistan withdraws it’s forces from the captured territory. After the withdrawal of Pakistani forces, once order is established, Indian government will hold plebiscite in whole of J&K (including Gilgit/Baltistan). So I urge my Pakistani friends to pressurize their government to vacate “Azad” Kashmir and Northern Areas, so that Indian goverment can hold plebicite .

  2. Pakistan also gifted a portion of Northern Areas to China in 1963, and China is also occupying Aksai Chin region. Pakistan being a all weather friend of China should request her to vacate both these regions so that plebiscite can also be held there.

  3. In the above mentioned UN resolutions, there are only two choices: 1.India 2. Pakistan. *There is no third option of independence. *So when Pakistan government says that UN resolutions should be implemented it is not supporting J&K independence.

You can read the UN resolution here:
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/kashun47.htm

Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

Following is the full text of the UN resolution. If you are two lazy to read it I will highlight the relevant portions.

Resolution 47 (1948)
On the India-Pakistan question submitted jointly by the Representatives for
Belgium, Canada, China, Colombia, the United Kingdom and United States
of America and adopted by the Security Council at its 286th meeting held on
21 April, 1948.
(Document No. 5/726, dated the 21st April, 1948).

THE SECURITY COUNCIL
Having considered the complaint of the Government of India concerning the dispute over the State
of Jammu and Kashmir, having heard the representative of India in support of that complaint and the
reply and counter complaints of the representative of Pakistan. Being strongly of opinion that the
early restoration of peace and order in Jammu and Kashmir is essential and that India and Pakistan
should do their utmost to bring about cessation of all fighting. Noting with satisfaction that both India
and Pakistan desire that the question of the accession of Jammu and Kashmir to India or Pakistan
should be decided through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite, Considering that
the continuation of the dispute is likely to endanger international peace and security,
Reaffirms its resolution 38 (1948) of 17 January 1948;

Resolves that the membership of the Commission established by its resolution 39 (1948) of 20
January 1948, shall be increased to five and shall include, in addition to the membership mentioned
in that Resolution, representatives of... and ..., and that if the membership of the Commission has not
been completed within ten days from the date the adoption of this resolution the President of the
Council may designate such other Member or Members of the United Nations as are required to
complete the membership of five;

Instructs the Commission to proceed at once to the Indian subcontinent and there place its good
offices and mediation at the disposal of the Governments of India and Pakistan with a view to
facilitating the taking of the necessary measures, both with respect to the restoration of peace and
order and to the holding of a plebiscite by the two (Governments, acting in co-operation with one
another and with the Commission, and further instructs the Commission to keep the Council
informed of the action taken under the resolution; and, to this end.

Recommends to the Governments of India and Pakistan the following measures as those which in the
opinion of the Council and appropriate to bring about a cessation of the lighting and to create proper
conditions for a free and impartial plebiscite to decide whether the State of Jammu and Kashmir is to
accede to India or Pakistan.

A - RESTORATION OF PEACE AND ORDER

  1. **The Government of Pakistan should undertake to use its best endeavours:

**(a) **To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and
Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes
of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of
material aid to those fighting in the State;

**(b) To make known to all concerned that the measures indicated in this and the following
paragraphs provide full freedom to all subjects of the State, regardless of creed, caste, or
party, to express their views and to vote on the question of the accession of the State, and
that therefore they should co-operate in the maintenance of peace and order.

**2. The Government of India should:

(a) When it is established to the satisfaction of the Commission set up in accordance with the
Council's Resolution 39 (1948) that the tribesmen are withdrawing and that arrangements for
the cessation of the fighting have become effective, put into operation in consultation with the
Commission a plan for withdrawing their own forces from Jammu and Kashmir and reducing
them progressively to the minimum strength required for the support of the civil power in the
maintenance of law and order;

**(b) Make known that the withdrawal is taking place in stages and announce the completion of
each stage; When the Indian forces shall have been reduced to the minimum strength
mentioned in (a) above, arrange in consultation with the Commission for the stationing of the
remaining forces to be carried out in accordance with the following principles:

(i) That the presence of troops should not afford any intimidation or appearance of
intimidation to the inhabitants of the State;
(ii) That as small a number as possible should be retained in forward areas;
(iii) That any reserve of troops which may be included in the total strength should be located
within their present base area.

  1. The Government of India should agree that until such time as the plebiscite administration referred
    to below finds it necessary to exercise the powers of direction and supervision over the State forces
    and policy provided for in paragraph 8, they will be held in areas to be agreed upon with the
    Plebiscite Administrator.

  2. After the plan referred to in paragraph 2 (a) above has been put into operation, personnel
    recruited locally in each district should so far as possible be utilised for the re-establishment and
    maintenance of law and order with due regard to protection )t minorities, subject to such additional
    requirements as may be specified by the Plebiscite Administration referred to in paragraph 7.

  3. If these local forces should be found to be inadequate, the Commission, subject to the agreement
    of both the Government of India and the Government of Pakistan, should arrange for the use of such
    forces of either Dominion as it deems t(effective for the purpose of pacification.

**B - PLEBISCITE

**6. The Government of India should undertake to ensure that the Government of the State invite the
major political groups to designate responsible representatives to share equitably and fully in the
conduct of the administration at the ministerial level, while the plebiscite is being prepared and
carried out.

  1. The Government of India should undertake that there will be established in Jammu and Kashmir a Plebiscite Administration to hold **a Plebiscite as soon as possible ()n the question of the accession of the State to India or Pakistan.

**8. The Government of India should undertake that there will be delegated by the State to the
Plebiscite Administration such powers as the latter considers necessary for holding a fair and
impartial plebiscite including, for that purpose only, the direction and supervision of the State forces
and police.

  1. The Government of India should at the request of the Plebiscite Administration, make available
    from the Indian forces such assistance as the Plebiscite Administration may require for the
    performance of its functions.

  2. (a) The Government of India should agree that a nominee of the Secretary-General of the United
    Nations will be appointed to be the Plebiscite Administrator. The Plebiscite Administrator, acting as
    an officer of the State of Jammu and Kashmir, should have authority to nominate the assistants and
    other subordinates and to draft regulations governing the Plebiscite. Such nominees should be
    formally appointed and such draft regulations should be formally promulgated by the State of Jammu
    and Kashmir.

The Government of India should undertake that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir will appoint
fully qualified persons nominated by the Plebiscite Administrator to act as special magistrates within
the State judicial system to hear cases which in the opinion of the Plebiscite Administrator have a
serious bearing on the preparation and the conduct of a free and impartial plebiscite. The terms of
service of the Administrator should form the subject of a separate negotiation between the
Secretary-General of the United Nations and the Government of India. The Administrator should fix
the terms of service for his assistants and subordinates.

The Administrator should have the right to communicate directly, with the Government of the State
and with the Commission of the Security Council and, through the Commission, with the Security
Council, with the Governments of India and Pakistan and with their representatives with the
Commission. It would be his duty to bring to the notice of any or all of the foregoing (as he in his
discretion may decide) any circumstances arising which may tend, in his opinion, to interfere with the
freedom of the Plebiscite.

  1. The Government of India should undertake to prevent to give full support to the Administrator
    and his staff in preventing any threat, coercion or intimidation, bribery or other undue influence on the
    voters in the plebiscite, and the Government of India should publicly announce and should cause the
    Government of the State to announce this undertaking as an international obligation binding on all
    public authorities and officials in Jammu and Kashmir.

  2. The Government of India should themselves and through the Government of the State declare
    and make known that all subjects of the State of Jammu and Kashmir, regardless of creed, caste or
    party, will be safe and free in expressing their views and in voting on the question of the accession of
    the State and that there will be freedom of the Press, speech and assembly and freedom of travel in
    the State, including freedom of lawful entry and exit.

  3. The Government of India should use and should ensure that the Government of the State also
    use their best endeavour to effect the withdrawal from the State of all Indian nationals other than
    those who are normally resident therein or who on or since 15th August 1947 have entered it for a
    lawful purpose.

  4. The Government of India should ensure that the Government of the State releases all political
    prisoners and take all possible steps so that:

(a) all citizens of the State who have left it on account of disturbances are invited and are free
to return to their homes and to exercise their rights as such citizens;
(b) there is no victimisation; minorities in all parts of the State are accorded adequate
protection.

  1. The Commission of the Security Council should at the end of the plebiscite certify to the Council whether the plebiscite has or has not been really free and impartial.

C - GENERAL PROVISIONS

  1. The Governments of India and Pakistan should each be invited to nominate a representative to
    be attached to the Commission for such assistance as it may require in the performance of its task.

  2. The Commission should establish in Jammu and Kashmir such observers as it may require of any
    of the proceedings in pursuance of the measures indicated in the foregoing paragraphs.

  3. The Security Council Commission should carry out the tasks assigned to it herein.

The Security Council voted on this Resolution on 21-41948 with the following result:
In favour: Argentina, Belgium, Canada, China, France, Syria, U.K. and U.S.A.
Against: None
Abstaining: Belgium, Colombia, Ukrainian S.S.R. and U.S.S.R.

Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

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Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

Hehe I pity on you !! when did i say India is a great country !!! well regarding child prostitution go check in Heera Mandi then come and post a comment here !!! world wide child prostitution problem is their and here we are discussing just about Kashmir`s Freedom nothing more

Regarding Loo and other Plz open an thread i shall be more grateful to give an practical example Via Video Conference Or Recordings :D

Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

Lets Finish this all and Make kashmir a seperate country :D

Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

The Resolution was ammended and there are various other points that need to taken into consideration, I would happily email you everything as there are lots of things that I have. However I respect your opinion and you have a right to have your own view. I do recommend other people to read it though as many people do not know it even exists. so thanks for puttin it up.

As for Boredman im not even gonna bother with you, dont pity me i feel sorry for you as you dnt have any humaity in you. you were not discussing kashmir in a serious way you were mocking them. I went last year and saw bodies of children that had been killed so dont speak in such a diresepectful way. Its better to die in dignity then live a life of humility with India! People of Kashmir have courage that they stand up to India , a so called democracy that does denies the rights of millions! Its becme another Palestine. For throwing a stone you get shot.

Re: 'Kashmir is not like any other state of India'

[QUOTE]
The Resolution was ammended and there are various other points that need to taken into consideration, I would happily email you everything as there are lots of things that I have. However I respect your opinion and you have a right to have your own view.
[/QUOTE]
I will be happy if you post it here, along with the source(s).

[QUOTE]
I went last year and saw bodies of children that had been killed so dont speak in such a diresepectful way
[/QUOTE]
There were no stone pelting riots last year. Anyways, can you tell me what kind of parents allow their kids to go to such protests when curfew has been declared. Will you allow your kids to go out under such circumstances. I know, I will rather tie them down at home. It saddens me to see kids being cynically used as political tools.

[QUOTE]
ts better to die in dignity then live a life of humility with India!
[/QUOTE]
Such rhetorical statements are meaningless and only made by people whose own loved ones are safe from any harm.

[QUOTE]
People of Kashmir have courage that they stand up to India , a so called democracy that does denies the rights of millions!
[/QUOTE]
Umm .. and Pakistan does not ? Isn't Pakistan Islamic Republic ? Does it fulfill Islamic ideals of equality and justice ? Shouldn't you be applying the similar yardstick to people of Baluchistan, FATA/PATA, "Azad" Kashmir and Northern Areas. Why not incite them to kill themselves as their rights are also trampled upon ?

[QUOTE]
Its becme another Palestine. For throwing a stone you get shot.
[/QUOTE]
Another meaningless rhetorical statement. Let's see:
1.For one thing, unlike the Palestinians, who were neither consulted, nor given any choice in the creation of the state of Israel, the people of Kashmir voluntarily chose to merge with India under the leadership of the secular and progressive Jammu and Kashmir National Conference. When Pakistan invaded Kashmir after 1947, the people of Kashmir formed their own civil-defense committees and thousands of National Conference activists and supporters fought tooth and nail against Pakistani invaders. The Indian Army was welcomed with open arms, and Kashmir was integrated into the Indian nation with some special constitutional rights and privileges.

2.Unlike Israel which was founded on the sectarian ideology of Zionism, that privileged Jews and Judaic religion and culture over other belief-systems of the Middle East, India was not founded on any such narrow and limiting ideology. Unlike Israel, which unabashedly defends the rights of Jews over all others, India (as a state) has never claimed religious exclusivism for it's Hindu citizens.

3.Unlike in Gaza and the West Bank where the Israeli state routinely confiscates weapons from struggling Palestinians, the Indian state (in recent years) has provided small arms to tens of thousands of villagers (Hindu, Muslim and Sikh) who make up the thousands of village-defense committees scattered across Jammu and Kashmir.

  1. Israeli state often displaces arabs and resettles the captured areas with Jews. However in India's case, the Pakistani backed andtrained*mujahideen *drove out 400,000 Hindus from the valley.

**Stone Pelting: **I am not sure what the responsibility of Pakistan State are, but Indian State's responsibility is to protect the public property. There is no restriction against peaceful protests.
However a mob of 1000 people throwing 1000 stones at 100 police personnel doesn't constitute a "peaceful " protest, it is a mob. Similarly, burning down public buildings, churches, schools,etc. is not peaceful protests. Some people have died in the incidents when security forces retaliate to protect themselves, but many others have also died because mob violence.

Re: ‘Kashmir is not like any other state of India’

Quit being *****es and let them vote. Let them decide.

  1. Join Pakistan
  2. Independence
  3. Join India :hehe: - Like that will ever happen.

Anyway You want to give them all democracy let them decide on their own future.