Kashmir: Blood, Toil and dead bodies.

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
, , , ,
1

It is sad that Kashmir is fighting for their independence with their blood, toil and dead body, still we have no one thinking or talking about them here.

Today, I saw their gathering shouting for independence (Ham lay kay rahain gay Azadi …), and I also believe that the best solution for Kashmir that they have an independent state consisting of whole Kashmir, that includes entire Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh occupied by India, area of Kashmir under China, Gilgit-Baltistan, and independent Kashmir (Azad Kashmir) that ruled by Kashmiris from Muzaffarabad.

There should be complete Kashmir as an independent country run by Kashmiris, with hope that Pakistan (and hopefully India as well as China) would have a friendly relation with that state (Azad Kashmir). Please comment.

2

Re: Kashmir: Blood, Toil and dead bodies.

That maybe a good solution. There is big possibility that a separate kashmir will be a satellite state of India

3

Re: Kashmir: Blood, Toil and dead bodies.

I think independent Kashmir would not going to be satellite state of India or Pakistan, but even if it do than also it would be better that Kashmiris should have their own country instead if getting persecuted and killed the way Indians are doing to them in occupied Kashmir.

As for plebiscite, that is required and should happen, but with option of being with India or Pakistan is unlikely to happen.

On the other hand, Kashmir was not part of British India but was semi-independent state and had the option to ... either join Pakistan, either joined India or stay independent. India occupied a part of Kashmir and remaining is independent, though Pakistani forces did went in to save this part from getting occupied by Indians.

Well, India occupied many states and even the state that decided to join Pakistan. For instance ... Hyderabad, Goa, Travancore and so on.

India also occupied Junagarh, a state that opted to join Pakistan, but now part of Indian Gujrat.

It is disgusting and funny of Indian hypocrisy that India occupied a state (Junagarh) that joined Pakistan, saying that majority are Hindus and want to be with India ... and at the same time occupying part of Kashmir where most want to join Pakistan, by saying that minority of Kashmiris want to be with India.

Unfortunately, Thugs are ruling Pakistan, else Pakistan should have joined China in 1962 Indo-Chinese war, and should have liberated Kashmir as well as Eastern Punjab, kicking the Indians out of both Kashmir and Eastern Punjab. China was inviting Pakistan to do that. At that time, Pakistan could have sorted out the problem of 'Rann of Kutch' too, and may have even liberated Junagarh from illegal Indian occupation.

But, Z A Bhutto, foreign Minister of Pakistan, under the direction of USA advised Ayub Khan not to do that, because USA was against China attacking India, and did not wanted that Pakistan should cause added trouble for India in collusion with China.

4

Re: Kashmir: Blood, Toil and dead bodies.

why would places like jammu or ladakh want to go with the srinagar valley when the whole claim to independence of srinagar folks is that they are different from indians? ladakhis are even more different from them.

india has a few options - do what iron brother china does in xinjiang and dilute the population, or do what pakistan does in balochistan and make dissidents vanish and turn up dead and tortured, or do what iron brother #2](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=2) turkey does in kurdistan - deny their culture and leave them to rot, or the best option - cut its losses and give srinagar valley up to join with the neelum valley - independent or part of pakistan, either way the headache and revolt is gone, and india can focus on draining its limited resources on more productive areas.

5

Re: Kashmir: Blood, Toil and dead bodies.

There was peace in valley since 2003... Pakistan is sending fighter.. recent clip released by Indian authorities is the proof cross border terrorism.

6

Re: Kashmir: Blood, Toil and dead bodies.

Problem is that, you are quoting situation in places that belongs to those countries (at least internationally accepted as belonging to those countries).

As for Kashmir, it does not belong to India (or Pakistan) until there is plebiscite and Kashmiris votes to join India or Pakistan. So, Pakistani claim over Kashmir is as much valid as Indian claim.

As for Ladakh and Jammu, these areas are part of Kashmir (or Kashmir as it was before independence of Pakistan and India), and these areas have nothing to do with India or Pakistan until plebiscite happens all over Kashmir (that is, Jammu, Kashmir, Ladakh, Gilgit and Baltistan).

UN resolution on Plebiscite, option is of India or Pakistan, but as things are, India is reluctant to go for plebiscite fearing that Kashmir might join Pakistan, so third option for Kashmir is to become independent country.

On the other hand, I think it is unfair that in plebiscite, Kashmir could only decide to join India or Pakistan, and could not decide to be free from these two countries.

Anyhow … if India would start suppressing and persecuting Kashmiris as Turks are doing with Kurds, or Chinese are doing with Turks, than only option for Pakistan would be to go to UN and raise the issue all over the world, making it clear that India is keeping Kashmiris under occupation, so Kashmirs have every right to get help, arm themselves, and fight for their liberation.

Pakistan, alongside raising issues in UN and all over the world, start training and arming Kashmiris with all types of weapons that they would need for guerrilla war-fare, rather more than that (what Pakistan should start doing that openly), just like Afghans Mujahadeen were getting when Afghanistan was under Russian occupation, and encourage Kashmiris on Pakistan side as well as those others who would like to help Kashmiris in their fight for liberation of Kashmir.

Well, to make things easier and give right message to India, Pakistan should also start giving training and arming Sikhs so that East Punjab becomes independent. Good thing would be that with independence of East Punjab, or even if the situation deteriorates in East Punjab, Kashmir would liberate themselves easily, as only land bridge from Kashmir to India is few miles border accessible through north-western part of East Punjab.

We should remember that if Russia and later USA along with NATO allies could not suppress Pakhtuns in Afghanistan, if Russia and USA combined is finding difficulty to dislodge ISIS in Syria and Iraq, if KSA with huge military hardware is loosing war to Hothies, than India is a mini power compared to these super powers, and I doubt India could keep suppressing a large population of Kashmiris or/and Sikhs if they get backing of Pakistan, with full training facilities and unlimited supply of sophisticated arms to fulfill their requirements.

7

Re: Kashmir: Blood, Toil and dead bodies.

so the problem is basically one of international perception or borders than the actual mistreatment of people. got it, sa1eem pai. so its okay to oppress kurds, uygurs, baloch etc., but not kashmiris because pakistan has a finger in this indian pie. problem is no one else cares about kashmiris any more than they do about the other oppressed people.

8

Re: Kashmir: Blood, Toil and dead bodies.

^^^ What you wrote is not true. World do care for all oppressed people, but … well, there is this bloody ‘But’ there. J

Anyhow, let see.

1: In Burma, Burmese government are persecuting Muslims … Rohingya Muslims.
2: In China, Chinese government are persecuting Muslims … Uyghurs (Turkish) Muslims
3: In Russia, Russian government are persecuting Muslims … Chechnyan Muslims

4: In Palestine, Israeli government are persecuting Palestinians (mostly Muslims).
5: In Kashmir, Indian government are persecuting Kashmiri Muslims.

In 3 cases (1, 2 and 3), persecution is happening on people who are living in their own lands, but their lands are internationally recognised as part of the country whose government is persecuting them.

In 2 of those 3 cases (China and Russia), Muslims are different ethnicity, have different history, and are fighting for independence too.

On the other hand, in 2 case, persecution is happening on people whose lands are under occupation. On one of occupied land, there is dispute too, and Pakistan is partner in that dispute.

Now think, what is Pakistani response to all those 5 cases?

1: Pakistan might have raised voice occasionally, but nothing practical,
2: Pakistan is quite.
3: Pakistan is quite.

4: Pakistan active step is ‘no relation with Israel’. Pakistan occasionally raise voice against this persecution too, though Pakistan is mostly quite. Some Pakistanis even believe that since Pakistan is not directly involved, Pakistan should even recognize Israel and should have some relationship with Israel.

5: Here things are different. Even though Pakistan recognize India, have limited trade with India, and both countries sit on many exclusive forums, Pakistan is actively involved. Not just because India is persecuting Kashmiri Muslims but because Kashmiris are not willing to live under occupation and Pakistan is also directly involved in that area.

One should also recognize that, this involvement is not just for land but people too, as India has occupied Pakistani land (not disputed, but actual land that belongs to Pakistan), but where people were pro-India (like Junagarh). But since people are fine (and not persecuted), Pakistani keep quite.

There are many cases where Pakistan (rather whole world) is quite, when persecution happens within international boundary of a country over their internationally recognized citizens. For instance, Pakistan is mostly quiet about:

Persecution of Sikhs in India.
Persecution of Lower caste in India.
Persecution of Muslims in India.
Persecution of Christians in India.
Persecution of Armenians in Turkey.
Persecution of ‘Shia and Sunni’ in KSA.
Persecution of Shia in Bahrain.
Persecution of Kurds in Turkey.
Persecution of Druze in Syria.
Persecution of Buddhist in Malaysia.
Persecution of Muslims in Thailand.
Persecution of Uyghurs in China
Persecution of Chechnyans in Russia

And so on.

So, I hope you could understand the situation and would see the difference. :)

9

Re: Kashmir: Blood, Toil and dead bodies.

This may have been arranged by India to weaken peaceful Kashmiri struggle lost a hundred lives and India failing to control
**Otherwise which one who did this is an enemy of Kashmiris & Pakistan
**اسےکہتےہیں جلتی پرتیل ڈالنا,
for propaganda
](http://www.dawn.com/news/1284540)](http://www.dawn.com/news/1284540)](http://www.dawn.com/news/1284540) https://o.twimg.com/2/proxy.jpg?t=HBgraHR0cDovL3d3dy5kYXduLmNvbS9faW1nL3NvY2lhbC1kZWZhdWx0LmpwZxTuBRTuBRwU8AEU8AEAABYAEgA&s=ixl91O0K8U8xed_AnmhGwTNGSC7g-27_-_f5ppKbmA8

    [17 soldiers killed as suspected militants attack army base in India-held Kashmir](https://t.co/zdpRT2yaPI)  [Indian PM Modi condemns Uri base attack, says perpetrators will not go unpunished.](https://t.co/zdpRT2yaPI)

dawn.com