Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

This is not a good news b/c he is opening going after Pakistan & inviting India.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-04/karzai-to-hold-afghanistan-india-talks-that-may-increase-pakistan-tensions.html

Afghanistan’s President Hamid Karzai visits India’s capital today for talks that could include training by India for Afghan security forces, a step that may exacerbate the two countries’ tensions with Pakistan.

Karzai will ask for Indian help in training the Afghan army, Afghanistan’s independent Tolo television channel reported, citing Karzai spokesman Hamed Elmi. India may be preparing to offer Afghanistan training for its police forces, the Financial Times reported yesterday, citing people in India close to the talks it didn’t name.

The Afghan president will spend two days in New Delhi India’s foreign ministry said, arriving a day after repeating his accusation that Pakistan is pursuing a “double-sided policy” that has undermined his efforts to seek peace with the Taliban. “The government of Pakistan does not support our efforts to bring peace and security in Afghanistan, which is very unfortunate news for us,” Karzai said in a speech on state television.

Karzai and the U.S. have increased pressure on Pakistan to end what they and independent analysts say is a long-standing policy of backing Taliban guerrillas fighting government and U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan. Karzai said yesterday that his government has been unable to make progress in negotiations with the Taliban because they are effectively under Pakistan’s control. “We must deal and talk with those who have authority,” he said.

Current and retired Pakistani officials have said any security role by Indian in Afghanistan would be seen by Pakistan as a threat and risk deepening conflict in the region.

‘Strategic Encirclement’

While “Pakistan won’t object to any Indian role in helping the development” of Afghanistan, “any military or intelligence role for India will not be tolerable for Pakistan,” Pakistani foreign policy analyst and former ambassador Maleeha Lodi said in an interview in July. Pakistan’s security policies are set by its politically powerful army, which Lodi said retains “its desire to prevent any kind of strategic encirclement” through an Indian-Afghan security relationship.

Tensions between Pakistan and both Karzai’s government and the U.S. have increased following guerrilla attacks in the Afghan capital last month that officials in Kabul and Washington say were sponsored by Pakistan. On Sept. 13, Taliban guerrillas fired rocket-propelled grenades into the U.S. Embassy compound, and a week later a suicide bomber killed Karzai’s chief envoy for talks with the Taliban.

2

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

Does the talks of Dr. Mujeeb in his last days had any effect? the president of Afghanistan is puppet of USA, his govt is limited to the presidential palace and outside in the streets, it is either American forces or Taliban...

So let him talk as much as he can... i believe these are his last days as a president of the country to have talks at such higher level...

3

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

You reap what you sow I guess. If Pakistan had pursued a policy of non-interference in Afghanistan AND not hedged its bets on terrorists and rogue groups like Haqqanis and Taliban, the situation would have been quite different today.

And Pakistanis may console themselves with alibis but if the Afghans were given a choice between American support on the one hand and Taliban backed by Pakistan on the other hand they will choose the former. Look at WW11. It devastated European states but billions of dollars in post-war American aid not only ensured their economic recovery and progress but also warded of the main threat at the time i.e. communism and Soviet influence. A similar Marshall Program can completely transform Afghanistan. In contrast what exactly can Taliban and Pakistan offer Afghans?

4

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

^^ Did Pakistan had choice? after 9/11 Pakistan was forced into the wed-lock, forced marriages seldom works out..

5

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

^ "Forced marriages" might not always work but when there is sincerity to make a union work then there is no reason why it can't. Of course if one side is having multiple extra-marital affairs with people who would rather do your spouse harm then any marriage cannot last.

In any case, it was not a forced marriage for Pakistan. It was a marriage of convenience; Pakistan thought it could pretend to be an ally of the US while betraying Americans and Afghans at the same time. And Pakistan did have a choice. It could have chosen not to indulge in duplicity. It could have chosen to severe ties with groups like Haqqanis. It didn’t and that was not the right choice to make.

6

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

^^^ Why is ok for the US to stay in touch with Haqqanis but not Pakistan?

http://www.dawn.com/2011/10/03/haqqani-says-us-wants-him-to-join-afghan-govt.html

LONDON: A BBC report quoted Afghan insurgent leader Siraj Haqqani on Monday as saying he’s been approached by the United States to join the Afghan government and denying that his militant group was behind the killing of the top Afghan peace envoy.

The Pakistan-based Haqqani network is affiliated with both the Taliban and al-Qaida and has been described US and other Western nations as the top security threat in Afghanistan. The group has been blamed for hundreds of attacks, including a 20-hour siege of the US Embassy and Nato headquarters last month.

The group is led by Jalaludin Haqqani, but the ailing leader has relinquished most operational control to one of his sons, Siraj.

Last week, US officials accused Pakistan’s spy agency of supporting the Haqqanis in attacks on Western targets in Afghanistan, the most serious allegation yet of Pakistani duplicity in the 10-year war.

The United States and other members of the international community have in the past blamed Pakistan for allowing the Taliban, and the Haqqanis in particular, to retain safe havens in the country’s tribal areas along the Afghan border, particularly in North Waziristan.

The outgoing chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mike Mullen, has also claimed that Pakistan’s military spy agency helped the group.

However, Haqqani told the BBC Pashtu service that while the group had contacts with a number of spy agencies, including that of Pakistan, during the Soviet invasion, there are now ”no such links that could be beneficial.”

”Right from the first day of American arrival till this day not only Pakistani but other Islamic and other non-Islamic countries including America, contacted us and they (are) still doing so. They are asking us to leave the ranks of Islamic Emirates,” he said referring to the Taliban leadership.

He said that the outsiders have promised an ”important role in the government of Afghanistan,” as well as negotiations.

Haqqani also denied that his group took part in the Sept. 20 assassination of former Afghan President Burhanuddin Rabbani. He headed the country’s High Peace Council, set up by Afghan President Hamid Karzai to work toward a political solution to the decade-long war.

”We haven’t killed Burhanuddin Rabbani and this has been said many times by the spokespersons of Islamic Emirate,” he said.

Karzai’s office has said a special commission investigating Rabbani’s death had concluded the attack was planned in Quetta, the Pakistani city where key Taliban leaders are based. The delegation also said the primary assailant was a Pakistani citizen.

The BBC said it did not interview Siraj Haqqani directly. Working through an intermediary, the BBC drew a list of questions and received in return an audio file which it was able to verify as being him.

7

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

^ I would take Haqqani's claims with a grain of salt. There is also quite a difference between being in touch with your adversary and actively sheltering and abetting militant groups.

8

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

^^^ In that case what is stopping the US and Afghans from closing the Afghan border? The fact is, Afghanistan is a tribal nation where tribal royalties are more important than the concept of nationhood as it is understood in western world & that is why eventually the US will have to go & Afghans will have come up with solution to fix Afghan problems. No outside solution imposed by anyone will work.

9

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

Interesting isn't it. Haqqanis are not to be trusted. Neither are the Taliban. But everybody believes them when they claim to kill a High Profile target. But refuse to believe them when they kill 20 ISAF forces. The veracity and truthiness of the Taliban completely depends on what NATO says. And NATO is hardly an organization that has been honest. Covering up war crimes. Covering up targeted killings and other human rights violations.

As for India and Afghanistan. This is good news. We need to disengage from Afghanistan as quickly as possible. Let them rot for all I care. They still need Pakistan more than Pakistan needs Afghanistan.

10

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

What do you know about Afghanistan - India - Pakistan relationship? Do you know what was relationship between Afghanistan and Pakistan before so called "sowing"? in 1980s? in 1970s? You need to learn a bit of history before jumping to conclusions.


Sure, do you add salt when the same Taliban "claim" of a high profile explosion as rightly pointed out by CM?

11

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

I guess millions of Afghan refugees living in Pak can now move to India along with their AK47s...

12

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

I am agreed what CM and Mo said, we better leave afaganistan on its own we got nothing from there but just bad, Karzai is man from USA and he do what they order the masters are seeing to keep india with them and use Pakistan as can they destroy it.

13

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

Afghanistan needs help. India can help. So why not?

I do understand Pakistani concerns around 'encirclement' - so when you perceive such risks the sane approach is to sit and work out mutual safegaurds, in this case at least on a tri-partite basis (A, I, P). Instead of that, making bellicose statements such as 'we won't tolerate it' is immature, ineffective and indicative of designs

14

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

Only the 50 million Afghans/Pashtuns can decide to close the "Afghan border" and that is not going to happen anytime soon. Afghanistan might be a fragmented nation but its concept of nationhood is evolving and its institutions like police and army are being built with the help of of allies like the US, UK and India. Certainly when it comes to spite against Pakistan, Afghan sense of nationhood is strong.

The world will not allow another 9/11 hatched in Afghanistan so when NATO leaves, another Taliban government backed by Pakistan will not be allowed to take over. I agree imposing an outside solution will not work if that solution is detrimental to Afghanistan's citizens. Which is all the more reason why Pakistan should not have hedged its bets on groups like the Haqqanis.

You need to learn to argue instead of jumping up and down and taking statements out of context. Afghanistan's relations with Pakistan have always been troubled. Even before there was 'strategic depth' there was the Durand Line. Pakistan, however, does not have any right to use proxies, terrorism, puppet regimes, and interference in Afghanistan.

Who else can be responsible for it? Unless you believe, as many Afghans do, that ISI/Pakistan are directly behind such explosions.

15

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

Sure please send me the etiquette 101 link right away, I do lack that in all ways. However you are answering your own questions in later posts. Whether Pakistan "interferes" in Afghanistan or not, relationship has always been troubled so why drag the "interference" into the equation.


There are many questions in the world which get answered like 20-30 years down the road if we are lucky. All you will have to do is wait for US to exit Afghanistan, stay alive for few more years then stay tuned to the stories that come out of real people and not from "spokesperson".

16

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

Charity starts at home, unless you don't know prevailing conditions in your own back yard.

17

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

this in not something new, they have held talks in the past about bilateral relations. Pakistan should also find avenues of where they can improve their relationship with the afghans, they do need to change their policy in that country

18

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions


No, many countries in the world have contentious issues causing friction between them but they don't go about trying to solve them the way Pakistan did. Pakistan's policies of "interference" (and worse) in Afghanistan's affairs have not aided any reconciliation with it but exacerbated tensions. The continuation of these ill-conceived policies and 'strategies' have harmed Afghanistan's people engendering hatred, forced Kabul to consider strengthening ties with Pakistan's rival to an extent that might come to haunt Pakistan later, and today risk making Pakistan an international pariah state.

There is no reason to assume that we would be hearing any dramatic "stories" 2 or 3 decades down the line. In any case, revisionism of history does not history make.

19

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

^ Didn't India do the same vis E. Pakistan and Sri Lanka? Now, you would say it isn't but who knows what the future holds since your politicians are the same advanis and gandhis.

20

Re: Karzai to Hold Afghanistan-India Talks That May Increase Pakistan Tensions

I guess Pakistani foreign office need to send a fax to Indian foreign office telling them that there are millions of Afghan in NOT-So-GOOD Pakistan, and Pakistan can transfer them to India through Wahga Border... Indians can host them for another 20 years..