Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

More BAKWAAS from Charsai

Pakistan no more a kingmaker, says Karzai

KABUL: Pakistan should know that gone are the days when Afghan governments were formed in Pakistan and dissolved there, Afghan President Hamid Karzai was quoted as saying on Thursday.

Afghans are now themselves masters of their country and the Afghan people themselves will take decisions,” Karzai was quoted as telling tribal elders and officials in Kunar. He alleged that Pakistan was training militants and sending them into Afghanistan. “Islamabad should realise it no longer has power to determine events in Afghanistan. Pakistani intelligence gives military training to people and then sends them to Afghanistan with logistics,” the Afghan Islamic Press news agency quoted Karzai.

Karzai described Taliban leader Mulla Mohammad Omar as a coward “hiding in the other country and sending youth to kill our people”. “Pakistan wants that Afghanistan be its military base but that dream will never come true.” Pakistan Foreign Office spokeswoman Tasneem Aslam has termed Karzai’s statement “baseless and absurd”. She said that instead of accusing Pakistan, Afghanistan should take action against infighters. Agencies

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

A failing friendship

Washington propped up Musharraf because he could help catch Osama. Now the general’s sinking

Peter Preston
The Guardian

Are you sitting uncomfortably as the bad news pours in from Basra and points east? That’s the trouble with “failed states”. They keep on failing. Just scan the top 10 in the global basket-case championship, as nominated last week by the learned American journal Foreign Policy. Iraq is there, of course, along with Somalia, Sudan, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Ivory Coast, Zimbabwe, Chad, Haiti and our old friend Afghanistan. Wait a minute, that’s only nine.

The extra failed state on the list - and, at number nine, its fastest riser - is axiomatically Islamic, chronically violent, a terrorist training ground prone to stumble into wars with its neighbours, and run by an increasingly beleaguered man in uniform. And it already has the bomb - tested and ready to blast. Stop posturing over Tehran for a moment, can’t you? Welcome to Pakistan.

Too alarmist? Well, the state department came fast out of the traps claiming to see success, not failure. General Musharraf is a fine, stable chap to do business with. But always listen hardest to the people out there on the ground - and writing outraged editorials for serious local papers like Dawn. How dare these US policy wonks slander us so?

Of course Pakistan is trapped in “religious nationalism” and perennial conflicts, they admit; of course 40% of its biggest province has no proper policing system; of course 27,000 square miles of tribal territory operates its own revenge code for crimes - and 850 miles of border in the south is acknowledged dacoit land. Of course more than half of Pakistan is without proper writ of the law. But this isn’t new. It’s old chaos as usual. How dare outsiders see failure?

And that - remember - is the case for the defence, a beating of patriotic drums. It just leaves out a few difficult things. It forgets that 2007 is election year and that visiting administration officials such as Richard Boucher “want to see Pakistan a more democratic society” - echoing your own insistence on “free, fair elections”, Ms Rice. It forgets that (in the words of the American who ran the CIA’s anti-al-Qaida unit) pushing the general “to do the US’s dirty work against his country’s national interest” could see him toppled. When America drove him to send troops into tribal no man’s land, writes Michael Schueur, “it created a heaven-sent environment for Pakistan’s enemies to fuel the Pashtun fire against the army”.

Ask yourselves: why has Musharraf suddenly begun to try to distance himself from Big Brother Washington? Because he thinks he must. Because crass incidents - such as January’s botched US air raid that killed 18 innocent villagers - back him into a desperate corner. And, perhaps, because he senses he’s becoming dispensable.

Some other US thinktank findings got big play in Pakistan the other day: those Stratfor commentaries that said the general’s “usefulness to the US was fast becoming negligible”. Apparently Washington now “believes it does not need Musharraf at the helm to continue to prosecute its struggle against militant Islam”… and, moreover, “likely feels Musharraf is no longer able to keep domestic affairs in order”.

The big question is whether any of you are thinking clearly enough - or at all. You’re keen on democracy, because that’s policy. But you’re not always keen on its results, because that’s Hamas. You’ve propped up Musharraf because he could help you catch Osama. But he hasn’t. And now, surely, he’s sinking. Just listen to those tame friends in parliament trying to re-elect him early for another five years so they can use their existing majority to let him hang on. It doesn’t say much for their prospects at the polls. It’s another great warning sign.

The point about Pakistan - as even Dawn admits - is “its inability to sustain a democratic functional order”. That means the politicians like Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif come and go. But it also makes the army the continuing power broker: hugely influential and expensive, determined to keep its privileges and clout whatever happens. That’s why the general is president now. It is also why he could be out on his ear.

Who helped invent the Taliban, for paradise’s sake? Who fears India’s increasing influence in Kabul and resents the way America cuddles closer to New Delhi? Whose sabres rattle loudest in Kashmir? There are no each-way bets on men in braid. There is no substitute for freedom relentlessly championed. You want the big picture seen clear, you say? Then this - in success or failure - is it.

[email protected]

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

And just like stabing in the back is Pakistani Bimari. Why did Pakistan simply leave their long time friends TALIBAN after attack on US. Anyways I am very happy that they did. Now Pakistan's state is like Dhobi's dog "Na ghar ke rahe na ghat ke".

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

Pakistan may be Dhobi's Dog. And Dhobi happens to be winner of the cold war.

Bharatis on the other hand were Commie prostitute. Once the master Commie is no more, the same prostitute is sucking up to the new master.

Damn Thali kay Bangan Bimarous.

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

Look at the masala dosa Nicols posting from guardian! hahaha

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

Thats written by ignorant biased writer, who may have never visited countries he is talking about. such micky mouse writers try to get fame on cheap claims without research. so take that masala dosa and take necessary action.

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

baboo,chikooo,cutooo,oooollooo.....
Above adjectives are not arguments.....
Now if you have points about the topic.. put them..
Don't just keep pulling Indian into everything if Indian guppies on the baorad have an opinion about the way Pakistan and Afghanistan relationships are going on...

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan


No need for a 2,200 miles fence bro!. Just bomb the 50 meters damn Attuk bridge and keep Punjabis and Afghans apart. Join your Punjabi brothers in the East. Pashtuns will mind Pashtuns in the North/West. No blames, no hate, no Kushmir problem, no Pakistan--A complete Afghanistan and a complete India.
Allah Allah khair sala, as a punjabi would day;)

Gahez Quetttawal

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

Gahez Cottagehouse, easy to join Afghanistan in your warm cosy living room in the west! Who would want to join Afghanistan, let go of your bloated egos...

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

[quote]
No need for a 2,200 miles fence bro!. Just bomb the 50 meters damn Attuk bridge and keep Punjabis and Afghans apart. Join your Punjabi brothers in the East. Pashtuns will mind Pashtuns in the North/West. No blames, no hate, no Kushmir problem, no Pakistan--A complete Afghanistan and a complete India.
Allah Allah khair sala, as a punjabi would day;)

Gahez Quetttawal
[/quote]
Gahez, I don't see myself as a Punjabi, and I don't believe in any Punjabi brotherhood across the border. I would rather be happy with my Pakistani Pashtun brothers (without trying to force my values on them). But, unfortunately, some Pashtuns in Afghanistan believe in 'Indian brotherhood' far more than any Punjabi, Sindhi etc. Ironically these very people are the supporters of isolationist tendencies with respect to other Pakistani ethnicities.

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

Karzai is a ****... His power doesnt extend past his front doors so all he can do is cower inside and bark at everyone walking by... He should stick his tail between his legs and let the people who are actually fighting this war do the fighting.

Edit by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: Word censored

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

:hoonh: he’s forgetting how and where his govt was formed.

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

Meri billi mujhi ko myaoon :hoonh:

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

What a joke. The reporter filed the story from Qandahar. The same reporter has also gone to North and South Waziristan, Quetta and Kunar.

How many times have YOU gone to those places?

I thought so. :smiley:

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

PP1,

Afghan people have never been conquered. Rented - yes, but never conquered. Karzai may be Kabul based but no other Afghan ruler has ever controlled the full country. Warlords always rule there.

The point is that Pakistan and Musharraf are trying to act clever by playing both sides in the hope that the Americans will scoot. But in so doing Musharraf is converting his own land into Talibanistan.

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan


thats very true. We Pashtuns are very proud of our Afghan - Indian btrotherhood. If you join your Punjabi brothers in the East, you will not be excluded from that Pashtun - Indian brotherhood. You will also be part of it. Why is that you want to be brother or a sister of Pashtuns ONLY, not indians- who speak your own languages Hindi/Urdu/Punjabi, share your history, your own blood even land which is divided by an artificial invisible line? Only because they imiganary God you worship and bow to is called Allah and the one they worship is called Bgahwaan? But, you are forgetting your grandfather also worshiped Ganish Ghagwaan...

So, long live Pashtun Indian brotherhood and may the Pashtun Allah and the Hindu Bhagwaan eliminate all the artificial lines that British Raaj carved in the heart of Pashtun and Indian nations...

Gahez Pashtun, Quettawal

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

Interesting on how this will turn out. hmmmmmmmmmm


On a side note- salamoona graan gahez rora, srry I couldn't reply, wallah university ka da economics na tang shom lolllllll. Nor waya peera.

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

Zama taraf na ooom zama dwaro pushtano wrorooRo ta Salaamoona!

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

According to a study, in the year 2005 Pakistan made a spectacular progress, jumping from 34th position to 9th. Only it was an unenviable ball game in which the land of the pure took that great leap: the index of ‘failed states’. According to the American Foreign Policy magazine and an American think-tank, the Fund for Peace, which published the list for the Washington-based Carnegie Endowment, Afghanistan was a notch less failed state than Pakistan, occupying the 10th position in a list of 146 countries of the world.

The second annual index of ‘failed states’ was based on 11000 articles from different sources gathered over the months between July and December in 2005 and reviewed by experts. The ‘failed states’ were listed by observing as many as 12 indicators that included demographic pressures, refugee movement, legacy of vengeance, human flights and human rights, economic development, criminalisation of state, widespread violence etc. Some of the factors that contributed to the ‘elevation’ of Pakistan were its inability to police the tribal areas close to the Afghan borders, the inapt handling of the October 2005 earthquake and alarming rise in ethnic tensions.

While it is not sure if the Pakistanis were very pleased about it, their ‘arch enemy’ India was way behind them at 93rd spot. It was clear from the list of the ‘failed states’ that nearly all of them were from the continent of Africa and Asia with South Asia contributing significantly—Bangladesh (19th), Nepal (20th), Sri Lanka (25th) and, of course, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Clearly, India is an island surrounded by states which may resent the tag of ‘failed states’ but are unstable and poorly governed. Not an ideal neighbourhood perhaps, but luckily ‘failed states’ is not a contagious phenomenon.

A ‘failed state’ has many definitions. But in the report under discussion here it was about states in which the government does not have an effective control of its territory, is not perceived by a significant portion of the population as legitimate and is unable to provide domestic security to a large section of the population. Another factor considered before preparing the list of failed states was large-scale violence and its sections of its citizens.

As could be expected the Pakistanis were quick to take umbrage at the Foreign Policy and Fund for Peace report. In what will appear to be typically Pakistani style of bluster and bravado, the information minister of the country dismissed the report as ‘the joke of the year’. According to the minister, Mohammed Ali Durrani, billions of dollars of foreign investment was pouring into Pakistan and the law and order situation and the human rights record of Pakistan were better than many other countries. Was he joking? No, he was speaking to the BBC. Problem solved. QED.

But unfortunately the minister was in no position to support his exaggerated claims with some hard facts. As recently as March 13, the US energy secretary, Samuel Bodman, had said that the bad law and order situation in Pakistan was ‘an impediment’ to investment in Pakistan. The Shia-Sunni clashes in Pakistan are becoming deadlier and taking a heavier toll of life than before. Not just the tribal areas but also the provinces of Balochistan and large parts of North West Frontier are witnessing violent clashes between the local population and the security forces and a growing sense of alienation among the people is setting in.

The people of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir have become more disenchanted with the Pakistani authorities after the October 2005 quake. The banned militant and terrorist organisations that were active—under new names--in POK’s relief programme are back in their ‘usual’ business of killing the innocents in India. This has drawn unfavourable American attention but Pakistan lacks the authority or the will to ban them again.

Pakistan’s efforts to blame a ‘foreign hand’ for the violence in Balochistan has not been heeded by anyone outside the country, nor has anyone bought the propaganda that those opposing the strong-armed methods of the Pakistani authorities in the troubled areas are against development. Islamabad has failed to get the American backing for its decision to dub the Balochistan National Army as a ‘terrorist’ organisation. The Pakistani rulers know of only one way to sort out problems in restive provinces: send the army. Only a ‘failed state’ would refuse to explore a political solution to an internal problem.

The free hand that Islamabad has given to the Taliban cadres living in their Pakistani safe havens has begun to haunt Pakistan itself with unrest spreading more intensely along the Pakistan-Afghan border areas and increasing civilian and military casualties. Many observers have reported that Balochistan was witnessing a nationalist insurgency that the authorities are unable to handle. NWFP’s is marching fast towards Talibanisation.

The minister who dubbed the American report as a ‘joke’ probably did not want to admit that much of the foreign investment in Pakistan would not have come without some behind the scene encouragement from the US which continues to see a key role for Pakistan in its so-called war on terror. Policy makers in the US realise that the actual situation in Pakistan is very different from what the publicists in either country say. As the time for general election (due in 2007) approaches, tensions in Pakistan are mounting with mainstream (also calling themselves ‘secular’) political parties demanding that the military ruler, Gen Pervez Musharraf, doff his uniform and the latter refusing to oblige despite a ‘promise’ to do so that he had made nearly two years ago.

With hardly any credible civil control over the government or the army, Pakistan’s present set up is a long way off from democracy and accountability. At the same time the popularity of Musharraf has been steeply declining even as the mullahs are tightening their grip on the society groping for ‘enlightenment’ under the military ruler. It will not be a surprise, if within the next few months, anti-Musharraf rallies become the norm because large sections in the country fear that an election held under the aegis of the military, or the ISI to be more specific, would be rigged. The state authority will be under more strain.

Despite all the praise that the American periodically showers on Musharraf they cannot but be worried about reports of Pakistan becoming a ‘failed state’. One of the major worries for Washington has been the extent of damage caused by the clandestine ‘nuclear Wal-Mart’ run by Pakistani metallurgist A.Q. Khan, since disgraced.

Almost coinciding with the report of Pakistan ranking high among the failed states was a statement from Islamabad that the chapter on investigations into the AQ Khan network has been ‘closed’ with the ‘release’ of Mahmoud Farooq, one of the 11 men working at Pakistan’s premier nuclear weapons laboratory, the Khan Research Laboratory, who were arrested in 2003 under American pressure after the unearthing of the AQ Khan’s nuclear black market. Now all the 11 have been ‘released’ though Farooq, like AQ Khan, has been ‘advised’ to stay indoors and not to talk to the media.

Pakistan did not give any details about the ‘release’ of Farooq, much less any details about what he told the investigators. But then Pakistan had also not been very forthcoming about the disclosures made by AQ Khan. A strict veil of secrecy remains over Pakistan’s nuclear proliferation activities, suggesting that either it has (or at least had) no control over its nuclear weapons programme or, as is more likely, it has no wish to let the world know about the extent of harm its secret proliferation activities have caused to the world. Only a ‘failed state’ can be that irresponsible...

Re: Karzai: Pakistan Training Militants, Sending Them to Afghanistan

Shadan rora thaso tham salamoona.