Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

this is not the best of the situation, but i have read karen armstrong’s work and i know that her ability to capture factual history, is accurate and is not questionable.

it is a good thing to see her state that to those who feel entitlement of downing the faith of Islam & its followers.

dushi

Karen Armstrong on The Pope’s Dangerous Remarks

We cannot afford to maintain these ancient prejudices
against Islam

The Pope’s remarks were dangerous, and will convince
many more Muslims that the west is incurably
Islamophobic

Karen Armstrong

Monday September 18, 2006

The Guardian

In the 12th century, Peter the Venerable, Abbot of
Cluny, initiated a dialogue with the Islamic world. “I
approach you not with arms, but with words,” he wrote
to the Muslims whom he imagined reading his book, “not
with force, but with reason, not with hatred, but with
love.” Yet his treatise was entitled Summary of the
Whole Heresy of the Diabolical Sect of the Saracens and
segued repeatedly into spluttering intransigence. Words
failed Peter when he contemplated the “bestial cruelty”
of Islam, which, he claimed, had established itself by
the sword. Was Muhammad a true prophet? “I shall be
worse than a donkey if I agree,” he expostulated,
“worse than cattle if I assent!”

Peter was writing at the time of the Crusades. Even
when Christians were trying to be fair, their
entrenched loathing of Islam made it impossible for
them to approach it objectively. For Peter, Islam was
so self-evidently evil that it did not seem to occur to
him that the Muslims he approached with such “love”
might be offended by his remarks. This medieval cast of
mind is still alive and well.

Last week, Pope Benedict XVI quoted, without
qualification and with apparent approval, the words of
the 14th-century Byzantine emperor Manuel II: “Show me
just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you
will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his
command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”
The Vatican seemed bemused by the Muslim outrage
occasioned by the Pope’s words, claiming that the Holy
Father had simply intended “to cultivate an attitude of
respect and dialogue toward the other religions and
cultures, and obviously also towards Islam”.

But the Pope’s good intentions seem far from obvious.
Hatred of Islam is so ubiquitous and so deeply rooted
in western culture that it brings together people who
are usually at daggers drawn. Neither the Danish
cartoonists, who published the offensive caricatures of
the Prophet Muhammad last February, nor the Christian
fundamentalists who have called him a paedophile and a
terrorist, would ordinarily make common cause with the
Pope; yet on the subject of Islam they are in full
agreement.

Our Islamophobia dates back to the time of the
Crusades, and is entwined with our chronic
anti-semitism. Some of the first Crusaders began their
journey to the Holy Land by massacring the Jewish
communities along the Rhine valley; the Crusaders ended
their campaign in 1099 by slaughtering some 30,000
Muslims and Jews in Jerusalem. It is always difficult
to forgive people we know we have wronged. Thenceforth
Jews and Muslims became the shadow-self of Christendom,
the mirror image of everything that we hoped we were
not - or feared that we were.

The fearful fantasies created by Europeans at this time
endured for centuries and reveal a buried anxiety about
Christian identity and behaviour. When the popes called
for a Crusade to the Holy Land, Christians often
persecuted the local Jewish communities: why march
3,000 miles to Palestine to liberate the tomb of
Christ, and leave unscathed the people who had - or so
the Crusaders mistakenly assumed - actually killed
Jesus. Jews were believed to kill little children and
mix their blood with the leavened bread of Passover:
this “blood libel” regularly inspired pogroms in
Europe, and the image of the Jew as the child slayer
laid bare an almost Oedipal terror of the parent faith.

Jesus had told his followers to love their enemies, not
to exterminate them. It was when the Christians of
Europe were fighting brutal holy wars against Muslims
in the Middle East that Islam first became known in the
west as the religion of the sword. At this time, when
the popes were trying to impose celibacy on the
reluctant clergy, Muhammad was portrayed by the scholar
monks of Europe as a lecher, and Islam condemned - with
ill-concealed envy - as a faith that encouraged Muslims
to indulge their basest sexual instincts. At a time
when European social order was deeply hierarchical,
despite the egalitarian message of the gospel, Islam
was condemned for giving too much respect to women and
other menials.

In a state of unhealthy denial, Christians were
projecting subterranean disquiet about their activities
on to the victims of the Crusades, creating fantastic
enemies in their own image and likeness. This habit has
persisted. The Muslims who have objected so
vociferously to the Pope’s denigration of Islam have
accused him of “hypocrisy”, pointing out that the
Catholic church is ill-placed to condemn violent jihad
when it has itself been guilty of unholy violence in
crusades, persecutions and inquisitions and, under Pope
Pius XII, tacitly condoned the Nazi Holocaust.

Pope Benedict delivered his controversial speech in
Germany the day after the fifth anniversary of
September 11. It is difficult to believe that his
reference to an inherently violent strain in Islam was
entirely accidental. He has, most unfortunately,
withdrawn from the interfaith initiatives inaugurated
by his predecessor, John Paul II, at a time when they
are more desperately needed than ever. Coming on the
heels of the Danish cartoon crisis, his remarks were
extremely dangerous. They will convince more Muslims
that the west is incurably Islamophobic and engaged in
a new crusade.

We simply cannot afford this type of bigotry. The
trouble is that too many people in the western world
unconsciously share this prejudice, convinced that
Islam and the Qur’an are addicted to violence. The 9/11
terrorists, who in fact violated essential Islamic
principles, have confirmed this deep-rooted western
perception and are seen as typical Muslims instead of
the deviants they really were.

With disturbing regularity, this medieval conviction
surfaces every time there is trouble in the Middle
East. Yet until the 20th century, Islam was a far more
tolerant and peaceful faith than Christianity. The
Qur’an strictly forbids any coercion in religion and
regards all rightly guided religion as coming from God;
and despite the western belief to the contrary, Muslims
did not impose their faith by the sword.

The early conquests in Persia and Byzantium after the
Prophet’s death were inspired by political rather than
religious aspirations. Until the middle of the eighth
century, Jews and Christians in the Muslim empire were
actively discouraged from conversion to Islam, as,
according to Qur’anic teaching, they had received
authentic revelations of their own. The extremism and
intolerance that have surfaced in the Muslim world in
our own day are a response to intractable political
problems - oil, Palestine, the occupation of Muslim
lands, the prevelance of authoritarian regimes in the
Middle East, and the west’s perceived “double
standards” - and not to an ingrained religious
imperative.

But the old myth of Islam as a chronically violent
faith persists, and surfaces at the most inappropriate
moments. As one of the received ideas of the west, it
seems well-nigh impossible to eradicate. Indeed, we may
even be strengthening it by falling back into our old
habits of projection. As we see the violence - in Iraq,
Palestine, Lebanon - for which we bear a measure of
responsibility, there is a temptation, perhaps, to
blame it all on “Islam”. But if we are feeding our
prejudice in this way, we do so at our peril.

. Karen Armstrong is the author of Islam: A Short
History

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

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Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope’s Dangerous Remarks

:confused: the early conquests WERE inspired by religious zeal
political reasons came later when dynastical rule prevailed

.

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:confused: this practice of discouraging conversion to islam was also a ummayyad practice as noted by sir john Glubb, and the reason was not because " they have recieved authentic revelation" but because by becoming muslims they did not have to pay jizya …so it was bad for the ummayyad merchants, who wanted more taxes eventually they made the lands taxable not the people
In the pious caliphate the Qurra formed in outlying cities who were disciples of major companions were specifically for the purpose of spreading the teachings of Islam.Obviously there were no forced conversions and those who did keep their faith were treated fairly, however it does not mean that spread of Islam was discouraged.

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

Pope said what he exactly wanted to say. He apologized for the 'reaction' of the muslim people. Lot of people wouldn't say what pope said but they are certainly thinking that. Can you blame him?

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

problem is that a huge Christian following is with the Pope. so if he is giving an address in which he is condoning the actions of something done previously to mock The Prophet pbuh, then the Islam's followers felt upset and threatened for the sanctity of their religion - Islam.
no one would like to be this way in their sense of having a bad image of their faith. so, the pope and any religious leader from any other religion has to be very careful before they go about making such remarks on other groups' religions.

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

I wonder whats worse, the Pope mis-characterizing Islam or thousands of terrorists killing innocent civilians in the name of Islam?

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

if u were to live ur generations, in tin refugee camps, if u had seen ur country taken from u, urself and ur people being helpless, seen ur neigborhood and family kids shooted, women humiliated, raped and burned, men jobless, stopped and asrrested at each and every 5 blocks in their own country, no future, no past, no home, but only extreme poverty, no esteem and breatheable space, and death as a reality, then u would know the difference between acts of retaliation for freedom fight (Palestine) and acts of terror (US, israel and allies).

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

You have a valid point.

But the pope owes nothing to Muslims and neither does the world. Muslims are getting their behinds kicked pretty much every where in the world. It's an open season on muslims. Pope is not going to mince words now. Muslims have no power in this world. Denmark was a small country and Muslim countries managed to put it in its place after the 'cartoon' controversy. Pope is revered by millions of christians and Saudis and other's can't mess with that.

It's all about power. Muslims have none.

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

does that mean that we should do nothing in the air of helpless slumber?

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

Never said that.

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

islam bashing is in...every1 is trying to cash on it n pope is no different.we all know how weak are treated...islam is the same way...a weak religion...can't defend itself when put on trial...

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

The europeans have only seen the ugly side of islamic imperialism ( although considerably less ugly than their own) represented by the dynasties that came to rule in the name of islam .....that is why they associate such people with the original message of Muhammad(saw) .....they generalize and oversimplfy ...most europeans are ignorant of the history of islam

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

I assume you are referring to the Palestinian Refugees....

They live in those tin refugee camps is because the Arab countries dont give them proper housing, government jobs but keep them in that squallor so that they can score points against Israel. In 1949, Egypt and other Arab countries agreed not to give these people proper housing so that they can show how evil Israel is.

The Palestinians were given their own country according to the UN Partition of Palestine in 1948. In May 1948 there were no refugees as Israel was created on areas which had a Jewish Majority. The Arabs decision to attack Israel in essence was a war of ego as who will be leading the Arabs, either Jordan, Syria or Egypt as all three of these countries hated each other but wanted to show the Arab Massess that will fight for the Arab cause.

The Palestinians fled because when Arab Armies who failed to support each other, had mis-communication then tried to protray the Israelis as butchers by playing false propoganda on Radio saying that Israelis are killing every Arab in sight which caused the Palestinians to flee along with the retreating Arab Armies. 500,000 Palestinians fled and 100,000 stayed behind who are today Israeli-Arabs and constitute 20% of Israel's population and make up 30,000 Troops in the IDF.

Egypt controlled gaza Strip while Jordan controlled West Bank.

They held those areas from 1948 to 1967. If they were so concered about Palestine then why didnt they create a Palestinian state?

When the Arab countries attacked Israel in 1967, Israel captured those areas as territories from Egypt and Jordan and not as occupying Palestine as Palestine never existed as a state only in territory.

I never heard of Palestinian women being raped and burned but the rest is true. And the reason for that is the Palestinians embarked on a campaign of terror against Israel instead of negotiating for land for peace.

Each Terrorist attack against Israel made Israel elect right wing politicians who favored harsher measures on Palestinians instead of talking to them.

The daily violence in the occupied territories is a direct result of palestinian incompetence beleiveing that terrorist campaign can win objectives for them

If Palestinains instead of resorting to terrorist tactics use diplomacy they might actually achieve something. Israel has to take these measures to protect its citizens from palestine suicide bombers.

Again, all this can end if and only if the Palestinans accept Israel's right to exist. If Palestinans are bent on annhiliating the Jewish state, then why should the Israelis care how much the Palestinians suffer?

I know the difference quite well.

When its a Jew attacking an Arab, it becomes a crime greater than all the massacares and genocides combined.

But when a real genocide occurs such as in Darfur when Arabs are killing Africans or when Arab kills Arab in Al Hama in 1982 or in Algeria or currently in Iraq or even when Non-Muslim kill non-Arab Muslims such as in Kashmir (with over 100,000 dead) or in Chechenya (250,000 dead), that doesnt matter.

My personal view on Israel-Palestine is this....

Israel should withdraw from Gaza Strip and West Bank and East Jerusalem. Israel should dismantle its settlements.

The Palestinain refugees cannot be allowed back into Israel as they will make Jews a minority.

If Palestinans resort to Terrorist tactics by firing rockets at Israel from West Bank then Israel has every right to re-occupy those areas.

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

^ also remember what our army general did in assisting the jordanians get rid of the palestinaians

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

and Roman empire was a GOD-sent saint .

right?

colonials and capitalists, operating as killers and looters, even today, are then, good smaritans.

yes, i got you, its in there.

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

the corruption within any country's executive powers aside,
in all Muslim countries, the biggest factor of created discord is the proxy 'dundees' that US and world war-participating countries conveniently establish, to poke fingers and give directives to the statesmen, there, simply to full fill their own endless greed and supremacy based agenda.
what do u make of that, what does it tell u?

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

Who is saying that ? only simpletons like yourself could come to such a ridiculous conclusion
it is always easier to blame others than look at our own mistakes ....
Do you know how much the later muslim dynasties adopted the customs of the byzanties and sassanians?
they became just as capitalist and colonist as them....
While the early caliphs lived simple lives and ruled by and large in accordance with the sharia, the later rulers( with few exceptions) made the islamic law subordinate to their own will as they styled themselves as "God's viceroy on earth", if this is the example we project to the outside world then I dont blame them for hating us

Having said that it is also a fact the even in the most darkest age of muslim imperialism, they were considerably less brutal and savage than the europeans, a testimonay to the efforts of the people who after Muhammad (saw) preserved his message for the masses which also tamed the brutal instincts and impulses of the rulers at times.

Re: Karen Armstrong on The Pope's Dangerous Remarks

offcourse the foreign powers will interfere in our affairs cuz they are the enemy ...but they have always found many traitors amongst our own people lets not forget that