Kahay Faqir-----------------Sayed Sarfraz A Shah

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Aslamo-Alaikum. Ajeeb baat hay k jab kisi Alim say uski statement par sawal kiya jata hay to who jawab denay say ghabrata hay. Shah Sahib ki kitab KAHAY FAQIR k Page 150 par main nay paraha, ISA (AS) ke zamana main " KHAWN UTRNA KA BAVJOOD MUNKAR HI RAHAY" REF: sura AL-MAIDA AYAT 113-116.
Many insay sawal kiya k is ayat ka mtabak Munkreen ko SAZA milni thi uska kiya hoa? Jawab mila k k yeh page unki kitab ka nahi hay.
Afsos in alimon par.

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Re: Kahay Faqir-----------------Sayed Sarfraz A Shah

Peace lahori1932,

Kiya jawab hy is sawal ka?

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Re: Kahay Faqir-----------------Sayed Sarfraz A Shah

Bani isreal.disobedience??

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Re: Kahay Faqir-----------------Sayed Sarfraz A Shah

Kuch samajh nahi aya k iss thread ka maqsad kia hay?

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Re: Kahay Faqir-----------------Sayed Sarfraz A Shah

Peace Mirch Bhai,

It is about the disciples of Prophet Isa a.s., who ate spread with food sent down from heaven. The OP wanna know whether the disciples who later on disbelieved, were punished or not. He posed this question to an Aalim who said the page which OP referred from a Book of Shah Sahib is not actually from Shah Sahib’s books, where the OP got disappointed.

That is what I understood. :smooth:

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Re: Kahay Faqir-----------------Sayed Sarfraz A Shah

Sarfraz A Shah is a religious and spiritual person who is on Pakistan Television every week during interview with Mr. Amar GHAURI.
He has written 4 books.
He poses to be Sahibe Kashf, posseor of MUAK'L, he has access to LO-E-MEHFOOZ and he condutcs DUA to Allah for Others. To me he has man contradictory statements. I requested him to clarify but rfused.

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Re: Kahay Faqir-----------------Sayed Sarfraz A Shah

It depends that how the question is put in front of an Alim.

I remember a story that someone went to Ibn-Sireen rh.a (forgive me if it is related to another alim but as per my memory it was Ibn-Sireen r.a) and asked that I forget to do Massah of ear during Wudu and remember about it later what is the judgement about it. He replied that the person should do the Massah of ear and continue with prayer. There was another person who came after the first person left and asked the same question. Ibn-Sireen rh.a said the he should complete the Wudu.

Ibn-Sireen rh.a 's students asked him that why the judgment is different for the second person. He replied that the second person did not asked the question for knowledge but he ment to spread wrong info. that is why I replied like this.

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Re: Kahay Faqir-----------------Sayed Sarfraz A Shah

Peace Tahurra,

Those who will receive the severest torment on the Day of Resurrection are three (1) The hypocrites, (2) those from the people of Al-Ma'idah who disbelieved in it, and (3) the people of Pharaoh (according to Tafsir Ibn Kathir).

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Re: Kahay Faqir-----------------Sayed Sarfraz A Shah

Urdu main aik mashoor shair hay:
Tujhay pra-ee kia paree Apnee neebair toh
Whatever happened or will happen to them should not be a concern for us. We should be worried about our fate on or before the day of judgement. We should ponder more on how to make our deeds befitting for Allah's liking instead of wasting it on others "anjaam".
May Allah be our guide and savior. Ameen.

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Re: Kahay Faqir-----------------Sayed Sarfraz A Shah

how did you request him

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Re: Kahay Faqir-----------------Sayed Sarfraz A Shah

Aik faqeer darkht kay neechay baitha Allah kay khiyalon may gum tha.

Aik admi ayea aur 'fakeer' say kahnay laga 'Baba, meray paros kay ghar may halwa paka hay'

Fakeer bola: Manu kee?

Admi: Woh halwa aap kay liyea hee paka hay.

Fakeer: Phir .. Tanu kee?

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Re: Kahay Faqir-----------------Sayed Sarfraz A Shah

nice discussion......and very nice reply of Mirch with urdu sher :)

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Re: Kahay Faqir-----------------Sayed Sarfraz A Shah

First of all ... from what I know, no human have any access to Loh-e-Mehfooz, except Allah. Some people might know a lot or have some knowledge written in Loh-e-Mehfooz, that is not because they have access, but because Allah has revealed to them (not as wahi that is only for Prophets ... but there are many other ways with Allah)

Secondly ... Though I have not read the said book by Sarfraz Shah, I think you are a bit confuse with what is written in Quran and probably what Sarfraz Shah wanted to write.

In Quran, the ayah 112-115 you mentioned, it is to do with disciples (followers) of Isa (AS) who were with him and requested miracle (food) that came to them with warning message (consequence of disbelieving after witnessing miracles is severe). Here, reference is not for whole Jewish community of the time, as they did not witnessed, seen or experienced miracle.

[We do not know if any of those disciples disbelieved ... so could not say anything about them. In Christian belief, one disciple (Judas) disbelieved ... and God punished him severely].

Anyhow … from my understanding, ayahs (5:112-115) have wider message.

There are people who have been with Prophets and also witnessed (seen) miracles that should convince them of truth (make them doubtless believer), so after witnessing miracles, if they disbelief, their judgement and punishment would be severe.

Then there are people who have seen Prophets (but not seen or experienced convincing miracles) and thus their judgement and punishment would be severe too, but not as severe as the one who witnessed (saw) convincing miracles.

Then there are people who are believers (Muslims) and got message indirectly, from various sources (ancestors, books, teachers, etc). Since they did not had company of Prophets or seen miracles, if they disbelief than their punishment would not be that severe … though it would be severe than those who are not born believers (and have to struggle to get to the truth).

And so on.

Ayahs (as reference):

5:112 (Yusuf Ali): Behold! the disciples, said: "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus: "Fear Allah, if ye have faith."

5:113 (Yusuf Ali): They said: "We only wish to eat thereof and satisfy our hearts, and to know that thou hast indeed told us the truth; and that we ourselves may be witnesses to the miracle."

5:114 (Yusuf Ali): Said Jesus the son of Mary: "O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)."

5:115 (Yusuf Ali): Allah said: "I will send it down unto you: But if any of you after that resisteth faith, I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on any one among all the peoples."

[Topic finish ... next ayah (5:116) is not directly related to witnessing the miracle]

5:116 (Yusuf Ali): And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

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Re: Kahay Faqir-----------------Sayed Sarfraz A Shah

Dear Saleem Sahib.

I like your perfect repy with relevant references.hank you vr much.I have read Tafaseers, Ulemas say that KAWAN was never sent down because they .. got scared of the punishment.
However I do not agree to the statement Of Saraz Shah that they remaind MUNKAR inspite ALLAH's warning.
Thanks saleem sahib