Looking at Anti-Pakistan Pro-Indian Afghani Northern Alliance Govt + Desire to make Afghanistan a b!tch + Wish to get a geographic influence + hope to get $$$ out of America trying to still hold Kabul + Common element of Islamisation between Pak & taliban = Pakistani treatment of Taliban as a valuable asset
but as then Foreign secretary H.R. Clinton once said in Lahore that if you nourish snakes in your backyard (look who’s saying right) they’ll move around but eventually bite you one day, that will happen and Pakistani establishment knows about it but they dont want to think that far. First thing first.
I wish I was wrong about Americans lying about leaving Afghanistan. But more and more events are pointing toward Americans’ desire for continued presence in Afghanistan to keep the pot boiling. Americans were visibly saddened by the Taliban's announcement that they see China as their friend. The biggest loser of peace in Afghanistan is the US. China expanding CPEC to Afghanistan, all countries who share a border with Afghanistan living in peace and doing trade with each other as they have for centuries, surely gives nightmares to Americans.
Americans are leaving. But they have propped up some defenses to make sure Kandahar wont get taken over (or so they hope). Kabul is extremely unlikely to fall. Taliban will have a huge part of the country, much of which is useless unproductive land.
And no, China is not seen as a friend by Taliban. They arent flexible like Pakistan is on what they see happening in Xinjiang. They arent patriotic, they are religious. Good luck working that into a modern state view without oil money.
Depends on what your definition of having left is. Do you think Americans have left Iraq? If yes, then Americans have already left Afghanistan as well. I will call Americans as having left when Americans can no longer take off their military planes from within Afghanistan to bomb targets in Afghanistan. I suspect that is why Americans are so keen on keeping Kabul airport “safe”. If you and I share the same definition then I will love to be proven wrong about the withdrawal. Do remind me of this post in 2022 and I’ll happily accept being wrong.
Whether Taliban see China as a friend or not is something that can only be claimed by the Taliban and they have made that claim. If you’ve been paying attention, America is always fighting lunatic, irrational crazies since the time of the Red Indians. But only time proves that those whom Americans were portraying as lunatics were after all quite reasonable.
During 80s : it was about Islamization and Muslim brotherhood (and dollars came for free)
During 90s : It was about influence
And since US invasion 2001, it’s about survival… survival against Indian evil plans.
You are a patriotic Indian and i can understand your frustration, but before questioning us on Talibans, tell your Indian brother ajit doval to stop terrorist activities against us from Afghan soil. Cut ties with Isreal and RSS, then you guys will be in a better position to point fingers at us.
I never heard of that group before but Iran has a habit of doing such things in border areas since forever. It is their way of border management, keeping tabs on smugglers and human traffickers, etc. Iran has a group with a similar sounding name on the border with Pakistan as well, it’s called Zainabiyoun Brigade. Does it bother Pakistan? Yes, but it is something that Pakistan has learnt to ignore in order to keep good relations with Iran.
Taliban have had a great relationship with Iran over the last 20 years. A high level Taliban delegation visited Tehran just last month. Probably the Taliban have also learnt to ignore such groups for the sake of better relations with Iran.
PBS news story has conveniently ignored those details to perpetuate a self-fulfilling prophecy which Americans are trying to bring to life in Afghanistan. Americans are trying to raise militias on the basis of ethnic, linguistic and sectarian ideologies to counter Taliban. But Taliban are ethnically and linguistically the largest and most diverse Afghan movement. So playing sectarian card might help, but the Taliban are also known to have Shia district chiefs as well which can complicate matters for Americans.
IF this is true than its further complicated for Pakistan so here is the power-players summary and one can add more to it:
Taliban - Pakistan backed
Northern Alliance - India/Iran backed
Fatemiyon - Iran backed
Other militias - US backed
Someone help me understand how is this a long term win for anyone? I feel bad for Afghans since its a total devastation for them. But there is no winner here either. And for any country like Pakistan which is itself trying to uproot its own internal problems, it doesnt look like a good idea at all.
Since most people do not want to upset Americans, they make it overly complicated to minimize any mention of the USA. But it is not complicated when that consideration is set aside. On one hand are those who have enjoyed the perks afforded to them by Americans. For most of them, their very existence in Afghanistan is due to Americans. They are:
NATO countries
India
Ashraf Ghani and company (Many of them have NATO nationalities)
Afghans who made good money by getting various business contracts.
TTP
ISIS
ETIM
Ethinic, linguistic and sectarian militias paid by entities in this group.
On the other hand are those who consider America as a long term threat as well as the root cause of problems in Afghanistan:
Afghans a.k.a Taliban or sympathizers of Taliban
Afghans who do not like Taliban but hate occupation more.
Afghans who fought the Soviets but are not Taliban (eg. Hizb-e-Islami, Haqqanis, etc.)
Russia
China
Pakistan
Iran
If America is driven out of Afghanistan, then that is a long term win for all those in the second group, especially those countries who border Afghanistan. The only international news out of Afghanistan then will be of infrastructure development for regional interconnectivity and trade. And Afghans will be able to govern their country in the way they please.
If US gets completely out like 100% out, my projection is that there’ll be worse “Khana-jangi” between all ethnic and religious groups. So no i dont think there is any long term win here.
In the list above, remember that China, India, Russia and Iran can manage on their own. can Pakistan do that? Look at the other thread where its suggested that Pakistan should work to “end” US influence in the region. Thats the unofficial campaign being run by Pakistani circles these days. OK! so now we are talking about taking heads-on US, the same country which we keep on convincing to give us aid and support? unless i missed something I didnt know when did we get this mighty.
Just because US is leaving Afghanistan doesnt mean we start bragging about “taking a control”, “ending the influence” etc. Just my two cents..
Here is another perspective that has been quite popular in Afghanistan from day 1 of that occupation. You don’t have to do any “projection” because we already know what happened when Taliban ruled over Afghanistan. They made Afghanistan a largely peaceful place, and the region was largely at peace as well.
US was and is up to no good in the region. Even China alone cannot counter those plans, and it’s only that realization that has brought China, Russia, Iran and Pakistan together. The aim is to bring peace to the region rather than a ‘peace process’.
The home town of Afghan warlord Rashid Dostum, the guy who massacred 2k Talibans in metal containers in November 2001, finally fell to Talibans, 2 of his commanders lost their life in defending the city and some reports are suggesting that his son has also been arrested by Taliban fighters. Its a big achievement since Talibans failed to capture these areas during their government. I reckon his son should be hanged with the barrel of tanks as a token to pay homage to what his father did to Talibans.
[quote=““Pakistani Prince””]
The home town of Afghan warlord Rashid Dostum, the guy who massacred 2k Talibans in metal containers in November 2001, finally fell to Talibans, 2 of his commanders lost their life in defending the city and some reports are suggesting that his son has also been arrested by Taliban fighters. Its a big achievement since Talibans failed to capture these areas during their government. I reckon his son should be hanged with the barrel of tanks as a token to pay homage to what his father did to Talibans.
[/quote]
Yes I remember what Rashid Dostum did and I’m sure Taliban remember that as well. The guy in uniform in the following picture is wearing Rashid Dostum’s uniform, which was found in Rashid Dostum’s home following the takeover of Shabarghan, hometown of Rashid Dostum. Rashid Dostum’s home was set on fire and this photo is amazing trolling by Taliban:
Looks like the taliban are quick to grab the western and northern provinces, and will possibly get to the southern ones along the Durand line sooner or later. They already shut down one busy crossing with pakistan demanding visa free travel for afghans. I hope pakistan has some kind of plan to keep this stuff from spilling over, or it is good for no one. These simpletons are deadly.
lmao dostum was wearing this uniform when he was given the rank of marshal by afghan President last year lol. This is trolling at its best. Besides i am wondering what John walker Lind will be thinking after the fall of Kunduz to Talibans. Dont know if people still remember his name, but being a new Muslim convert who fought alongside Talibans against the combined forces of Dostum and Green berets of US marines in the battle of kunduz, he made big headlines in international media as “American Taliban”. Green berets saved him from dostum and Bush administration slapped 20 years jail term. He was released last year after serving 19 years sentence in prison.
It is pretty likely there were more American citizens fighting as taliban, but most were not white and the US did not want them back. Pakistan had arrested a group of 5 americans of pakistani origin who were out to join the taliban/al qaeda sometime in 2009 or 2010, and jailed them for 10 years. No one talks about them or wanted them shipped back to the US. Imagine anywhere else where the US didnt make a stink about its citizens being locked up for a decade. Just google for "DC five".
At the end of the day, this ideology has a lot more purchase among pakistani youth than it will have in the west.
