Quran 39:71
The Unbelievers will be led to Hell in crowds; until when they arrive there its gates will be opened and…
Quran 39:73
And those who feared their Lord will be led to the Garden in crowds: until behold they arrive there and its gates will be opened and…
why is it that the and (arabic: wa) before the gates is not mentioned in the first verse???
interesting...
I am not a scholar and any wrong interpretation is not a good idea..
some point though... some times "wa" is used as "Wao-e-Tafdeel" meaning the explanatory "and" which is translated into "auo" [yaani]
but here it does not seem to be the case...
my own personal opinion (which might not be true) can be based on many ahaadeeth and quranic verses that i read/heard .... in a form of a question comes in mind that:
The doors of hell are opened upon the arrival but the doors of paradise will will always open ??
Some thing to ponder upon:) though it will never take away or reduce our responsibilties and duties to ALLAH...
wallah-O-Alam!
^
i've read this explanation in tafseer....
did not satisfy me....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
^
i've read this explanation in tafseer....
did not satisfy me....
[/QUOTE]
which tafseer?? I never read it anywhere... i just read this ayaah with so much baareeki after u posted here.. and the first thing that came in my mind was what i wrote... never heard from anyone exactly the way i told you.. that is interesting... may be i heard it and it was in the back of my mind.. wallah-o-alam!
armughal: listen to this:
Re: just wondering....
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by armughal: *
**Quran 39:71*
The Unbelievers will be led to Hell in crowds; until when they arrive there its gates will be opened and....
Quran 39:73
And those who feared their Lord will be led to the Garden in crowds: until behold they arrive there **and* its gates will be opened and....*
why is it that the and (arabic: wa) before the gates is not mentioned in the first verse????
[/QUOTE]
Gadha has already mentioned one of the strong views regarding the omission of waw (and) in v.71 and its inclusion in v.73. It would seem to indicate that disbelievers (v.71) will stand at the seven gates of Hell and then those gates will be opened in their faces as added humiliation. As for believers (v.73) the eight gates of Paradise will already have been opened prior to their arrival and so they will enter it without delay. This is one of the opinions mentioned by al-Qurtubi in his Tafsir and it seems to be the preferred view of al-Suyuti. Consider also Surah 38:50.
Ibn Kathir, however, favours the interpretation that it is an example of waw al-thamaniya. In other words, the waw that usually precedes any mention of or reference to the number eight. (We know from the Prophet's (s) hadith that Paradise has eight gates). There is another example of this in Surah 18:22 which says:
"Some say they were three, the dog being the fourth (thalathatun rabiuhum kalbuhum); others say they were five, the dog being the sixth (khamsatun sadisuhum kalbuhum), doubtfully guessing at the unknown. Yet others say they were seven, the dog being the eighth (sab'atun **wa* thaminhum kalbuhum*)..."
You will notice that a waw is added before the number eight yet omitted when the other numbers are mentioned.
And Allah knows best.
Iqbal
now this waw-althamaniya theory looks more interesting....
In 18:22 the wa could also be because it's the last part of the sentence.. "and the eighth their dog".
The wa in 39:73 could denote a permanent state w/ref 38:50
Note there is neither mention of any numbers for these gates, nor thamanya is used, therefore little credibility can be given to theories of wa-al-thamanya's.
seeing it with reference to 38:50, i guess what i read in tafsir is right....
i know those ppl who put the tafsir were great scholars but just checking :)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
In 18:22 the **wa could also be because it's the last part of the sentence.. "and the eighth their dog".**
[/quote]
... or it could be a case of waw al-thamaniya.
[quote]
The **wa in 39:73 could denote a permanent state w/ref 38:50**
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Yes, i referred to 38:50 earlier. It could mean that the gates of Heaven are opened in advance of the believers arriving there, not that they are necessarily kept perpetually open.
[quote]
Note there is neither mention of any numbers for these gates, nor thamanya is used, therefore little credibility can be given to theories of wa-al-thamanya's. **
[/QUOTE]
Heaven obviously has a certain number of gates. Why not eight?
Allah knows best.
Iqbal
[quote]
... or it could be a case of waw al-thamaniya.
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if it preceeded the word thamaniya it would be.. without that.. there is no case.
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Heaven obviously has a certain number of gates. Why not eight?
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I would not want to picture anything like that since majority references to heaven are allegorical. To me 'gates' is more like a metaphor as once we're souls again physical 'gates' will hold little meaning.
Had the Qur'an mentioned a count.. i'd have readily agreed.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
once we're souls again physical 'gates' will hold little meaning.
[/QUOTE]
Quran mentions the second rising of us as physical.
an eternal life in a mortal body?
mortal in the life of this world. when Allah states it will be physical, the question mark we put at the end of it, is not going to answer.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
if it preceeded the word thamaniya it would be.. without that.. there is no case.
[/quote]
Here we were actually referring to 18:22. You had said: "In 18:22 the wa could also be because it's the last part of the sentence.. 'and the eighth their dog'." to which i replied "... or it could be a case of waw al-thamaniya.". Do you still insist that 18:22 makes no mention of 'eight'?
[quote]
I would not want to picture anything like that since majority references to heaven are allegorical. To me 'gates' is more like a metaphor as once we're souls again physical 'gates' will hold little meaning.
[/quote]
Interesting! Are we to take your answer literally or metaphorically?
[quote]
*Had the Qur'an mentioned a count.. i'd have readily agreed. *
[/QUOTE]
... or metaphorically explained it away!
Iqbal
Iqbal, if there were other instances of a waw before thamaniya it could be a case. Otherwise it's just speculation.
Plenty of verses in the Qur'an are allegorical and reference to heaven itself has been mostly allegorical in nature.
Gadha that wasn't an asnwer. I asked because I wanted to know.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
Iqbal, if there were other instances of a **waw before thamaniya it could be a case. Otherwise it's just speculation.**
[/quote]
Not sure what you are now saying here. Are you suggesting that there is no such grammatical / linguistic tool as waw al-thamaniya or that there just aren't any examples of it in the Qur'an?
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Plenty of verses in the Qur'an are allegorical and reference to heaven itself has been mostly allegorical in nature.
[/quote]
Are you using any particular indicator from within the Qur'an itself in deciding which verses to take literally and which to take metaphorically?
[quote]
Gadha that wasn't an asnwer. I asked because I wanted to know.
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Allah is fully capable of gifting immortality to a physical body.
{No just estimate have they made of Allah, such as is due to Him} (39:67)
Allah knows best.
Iqbal
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
Not sure what you are now saying here. Are you suggesting that there is no such grammatical / linguistic tool as waw al-thamaniya or that there just aren't any examples of it in the Qur'an?
[/quote]
The latter.. other examples from within the Qur'an would help substantiate the theory.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
Plenty of verses in the Qur'an are allegorical
[/QUOTE]
glad u finally understood that :)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
The latter.. other examples from within the Qur'an would help substantiate the theory.
[/QUOTE]
So waw al-thamaniya exists in Arabic but not in the Qur'an, even though a verse might follow exactly the rule of waw al-thamaniya? 18:22 is a case in point. The Arabic would be readable without the final waw. But it's just a possibility, as covered by al-Qurtubi in his Tafsir.
[quote]
**Note there is neither mention of any numbers for these gates, nor thamanya is used, therefore little credibility can be given to theories of wa-al-thamanya's.
If there were other instances of a waw before thamaniya it could be a case. Otherwise it's just speculation.**
[/quote]
Does the word thamaniya (eight) have to appear in the sentence in order for waw al-thamaniya to apply?
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Plenty of verses in the Qur'an are allegorical...
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And plenty are literal.
Iqbal