I had the displeasure of reading saadat hasan manto’s short story “ThanDa Gosht”..
the story of the title was disgusting…pornographic stuff in Urdu just doesn’t work
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…and this guy is supposed to be a classic!
hunh
Asif. Generally speaking, the only ones who know who Manto was are the ones who will most likely pick up his work. He is not the kind of writer that one would read off the shelf. Secondly, If you found it so disgusting, why just not put it away after the first 2 paragraphs? I see some contradicKtion in your message.
I would argue to the contrary. I think, he is one of the finest urdu writers ever.
Not all his work the same ...
NYA …I did! (put it way after reading the first page and a bit
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yeh i guess some of his other stories are better (like TTS)
Asif, I think you need to go to Landa bazaar in Lahore and buy some books from the encroachers there (yeh, the ones that we all read in 7th grade) to understand what is pornographic literature.
And if you were disgusted by the idea of thanDa Gosht as presented in the story then duh, that was one of the core points of the story.
Manto is like a splash of freezing cold water on the faces of those who hide behind the warmth of looking at reality bound by their own bland morality.
I read Sa'adat Minto when I was 15 years old I think. I cant remember the name of his book. But it might be Thanda Gosht. I would have to read it again to remember the name.
But the reason for my write is to say that, it was from my father's collection. And he let me read it when I was barely a teenager. I do remember some sexual content in his 'afsaana'. But also it was an excellent novel written in urdu. Even I child could appreciate his writings, it proves. The book had some rich cultural stances on a few subjects I do remember. So what if he said the urdu word for 'prostitute' in the novel??
It doesnt depreciate the value of his skills as a writer.
well guys i thik manto had a unique style of writing and his stories were full of sex and booze but guys i found his books all a good read . look i put it this way , manto wrote things about which we all think and are there
in our hearts and minds but we all dont say and express in public. manto was not hypocrite .
i read thanda shost and though it was sexually very crude but the idea was not to excite the reader but to show the relationship between the sikh bandit and the lady . its about the atrocities carried out in those times and how sex ws used a a weapon against the other community very much of what happened in bosnia
i read sadat hassan mantos book stars from another sky its about the life in my city bombay before partition and its about the film industry of 1940's i must tell you thats its one of my prized books
manto wrote things about which we all think and are there
in our hearts and minds but we all dont say and express in public
Right on.
[quote]
Originally posted by Roman:
**>>> manto wrote things about which we all think and are there
in our hearts and minds but we all dont say and express in public
Right on.**
[/quote]
Question then arises: Why don't we express those thoughts in public?
Question then arises: Why don't we express those thoughts in public?
Many reasons, but mostly we don't like to look at things in the eyes. We don't like to face our insecurities. It's a lot easier to wrap everything under the carpet, labelling it taboo, inappropriate, or explicit and done with it than to admit that we all have our own fascinations, weaknesses, and insecurities.
Damn I wish I could read urdu
Asif, read it again n again n again....and after 6 or 7 times you will be pretty much comfortable with the story:)
Roman, i don't think its the idea of thanDa gosht which disturbs anti-manto group; its the description of garam gosht and the recipie how to make gosht garam which they have problem wid...
Kabir, the problem is dat he said too much in that particular story and dinn leave anything for readers' imagination....
ps> Asif, what is TTS?
never read the guy since i don't know much about urdu literature, but now seeing this controversy i think it will be worth while to see what Manto wrote and how it can perceived...
personally, i think finding such passages in urdu literature is a bit a eccentric since somehow we don't expect to see it in urdu literature. As someone said above, everything is sweeped under the carpet.
What's wrong with bringing pornographic literature out in the open? A lot. The educated in class in Pakistan has limited number of people. The religion as well as the society suppresses such valorous work. And here lies a whole new discussion :)
Manto, is over rated. he was just different..not better. Kinda like the spike lee of urdu literature..
The question is, was his controversial writing(s) a way to get publicity or did he believe to express as he did, necessary for the art of writing!
I have "husNay zuN*, that his intentions were good & for literature.
This doesn’t mean I appreciate what he wrote but I do give him the right to express the way he thinks best!
P.s: Naik, you have read Thunda Gosht twice? =) Not surprised at all! Just be careful, that Abba ji doesn’t get a copy …
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[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited April 04, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Fraudz:
Manto, is over rated. he was just different..not better. Kinda like the spike lee of urdu literature..
[/quote]
Manto started translating foreign novels and hence I think he sees the situation from so many angles that makes him a great writer. I had a chance to read on of his work "Khaul Do". It is a bit disgusting but really made me gloomy and hate some of the people. His work is reflection on the society and if the society is like that then you would definitely feel the disgust.
Manto, is over rated. he was just different..not better.
nah Fraud, case is quite the opposite...you name one writer in urdu literature who has the courage to represent the society as it is....in its most crudest and original form....
He wrote more than 600 stories, novels and dramas...i wonder how many you have read to pass such a judgement for hazrat manto alaih islam...:)
Manto is not any less of a writer than Zola or Maupassant or Dreiser or any other naturalist or realist writer of da west. It was his tuff luck that he was born in a hypocrite desi society where people are too scared of looking at their very own reflection in the mirror....
Ahmad, two times?? nahhhh... i have read that story cuontless times over the last 3-4 years.
Khan Saab, "Khol du" is one of the very best stories written by manto. It is very shocking in its nature... but disgusting???
would you like to tell me what exactly do u find disgusting in that story?
[quote]
Originally posted by NaikLarki:
**
......people are too scared of looking at their very own reflection in the mirror....
......
Khan Saab, "Khol du" is one of the very best stories written by manto. It is very shocking in its nature... but disgusting???
would you like to tell me what exactly do u find disgusting in that story?**
[/quote]
well said nikko ji, you have just said what I wanted to say.
Generally, the two-faced people whether they are a hindu fanatic, muslim razakar, or a doctor and how they can be so cruel to a weaker person. I guess I am unable to explain what I wanted to say. I am sure you would understand what I am trying to say.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by NaikLarki:
** nah Fraud, case is quite the opposite…you name one writer in urdu literature who has the courage to represent the society as it is…in its most crudest and original form…
He wrote more than 600 stories, novels and dramas…i wonder how many you have read to pass such a judgement for hazrat manto alaih islam…
**
First of all Naikoo it should be “alaih as salam..” not “islam”
Secondly, presenting society in its most crude and original form is fine, but it does not have to be presented in a crude manner. Otherwise, I can start writing a book suing maan behan ki gaali as that is the lowest common denominator of our street culture, and just because I used it somehow I am a great writer.. i dont think so.
Lastly, I did not read all of Manto’s works. read a few, found them all rather dismal and disappointing and decided that I did not want to read all of his work to figure out if I liked him. Its kinda like I drive the most famous car built by fors, if I dont like it, i try another 2 or 3 to figure out if I like ford, but i dont want to drive each and every car to draw a conclusion now do I? My time is more valuable than that.
{b} It was his tuff luck that he was born in a hypocrite desi society where people are too scared of looking at their very own reflection in the mirror…**
Once again, courage is one thing, ability is another. Did Manto break from the norm, sure..but in my view that is all he did. No more..No less.
It was his tuff luck that he rode on the controversy and used the shock value to define him rather than writing style and ability. He is the “2 live crew” of urdu literature..not the “public enemy”
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and you are welcome to your views.
Naikoo…TTS is Toba Tek Singh–now that WAS a good story, well-written
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I guess i’ll read the whole story again in detail this time…
btw, aap ki “alayhi salaam” wali baat mujhe bahut naagwaar guzri thi
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(although i knew u were trying to be witty but please…
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the novel by helen zahavi was controversial because of its content being so explicit but was it any good as literature?
[This message has been edited by Asif (edited April 05, 2001).]