Re: Judging others
Quran 17: 13-15 … ‘Every man’s fate We have fastened on his own neck: On the Day of Judgment We shall bring out for him a scroll, which he will see spread open. (It will be said to him) … "Read thine (own) record: Sufficient is thy soul this day to make out an account against thee."Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss: No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an messenger (to give warning).’
Brother, thanks for the references … I read both links. No doubt I agree with some of the writing but unfortunately, both writings were based on personal opinions, assumptions, interpretations, biases, interpolations, sectarian beliefs, sectarian assessments, personal preferences, and self-righteousness … nothing from Quran or indisputable hadith, and hence valueless as far as Islam is concerned.
You should know that when one is discussing something, it is not about me right and you wrong, but it is about learning from each other and convincing each other using references that is acceptable to other, or at least by using arguments that intelligence of other could accept, especially if other is not stubborn or full of biases. Else arguments and discussions are baseless, especially if other than learning from each other, anyone is stubborn or have fixed bias beliefs … even Prophet (SAW) could not convinced many Kuffar-e-Mecca when they were not willing to listen and were showing stubbornness with fixed bias beliefs.
We are talking about Takfeer that can make caller Kafir regardless of the caller doing Shahadah, praying Salah, giving Zakat, keeping fast, and performing Haj. I do not even know how a person who did takfeer can again enter Islam, as the takfeeri even close the door to enter Islam because he denies and disrespect the gate of entry to Islam (Shahadah) by devaluing another person’s Shahadah that the person made to Allah (not to the takfeeri) … a statement that Allah has declared that whoever recites with true heart enters Islam … and that only Allah can know what is there in heart … no human can cut heart to see that … hence for humans, even though they do not need to judge other person faith, recitation of Shahadah should be enough. I do not know how such person (takfeeri) would again enter Islam, but maybe he stops doing takfeer, ask forgiveness from Allah and ask forgiveness from those he did takfeer … and hope for the best. Thus matter is important.
So, I asked you reference … that does not mean reference from writing of A, B, sectarians outfits, takfeeries, Kharjees, or Mr Keller.
What I wanted to know is that … Other than takfeer, is there anything else that is mentioned in Quran or hadith that can make a Muslim apostate (Kafir) … not sinner, but kafir … even though he claims that he is Muslims and recites Shahadah.
It means reference from Quran where at any place Allah has said that such and such person becomes apostate because of such and such things/acts/sayings … regardless of the person himself claiming to be Muslim and reciting Shahadha … or … an undisputed writing where Prophet (SAW) had declared anyone apostate in his lifetime (for whatever reason) disregarding a person’s claim that he believes on Allah and Prophet (SAW) as prophet of Allah.
If you had given me references backed by Quran or even doubtful hadiths then also it would have had more value for me than references you gave based on opinions of people who were/are neither God nor Prophets (AS).
Things that amazes me is that … how human (misguided but think that they are guided) who themselves are going through test and are going to be judged on judgment day starts testing and judging others when they themselves do not know about their own fate, or own destination (Hell or Heaven) and where they would be standing in front of Allah. How funny it is that, for them their being Muslim depends on their reciting Shahadah (or being born as Muslim) and then they start questioning and making rules for acceptance or rejection of Shahadah from others (or others’ birth right to be called Muslim) … not knowing that by doing such, they are violating their own Shahqadah (or birth right) and acceptance by others of them being Muslim as on same principle others could judge them kafir too … but most important is that, without knowing that Allah is judging them too … and considering them (takfeeri) out of Islam because they rejected relationship of another persons’ with his creator (Allah) on behalf of Allah (that is what takfeer is) … when Allah says that it is only he who knows and accepts relationship of a person (his creation) with him and no one other than Allah who can deny or accept claim of that relationship. No worldly act can overwrite or decide such relationship or knowledge of such relationship.
For humans (especially if one is Muslim), we are bounded to believe confessions rather than what is there in a person heart or judge a person’s intention … and that is why Allah has put many stories in Quran, including story of musa (AS) journey with Khizr (AS) … shows that even prophets (AS) could not judge another person and thus keep their perception on obvious (that is confession).
Do you know, if one starts applying rules given by Keller on some of close companion of Prophet (SAW), we would start doing takfeer on them too? … Though takfeeries know that, hence made another rule, that is, not to discuss or apply their rules of takfeer on Sahabas or earlier Muslims, as if there is difference of faith between earlier and later Muslims … on the other hand we are told to follow earlier Muslims … so, if they were wrong we are allowed to follow wrong … and Allah would forgive us … but in Quran it says: No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another. … so how following anyone who was wrong could make that person bear our burden? … Fact is that, what applies to earlier Muslims apply to later Muslims. Please check end of the post.
Please read and think.
Do you know that Marwan (Khalifa after Yazid) was exiled from Madina to Taif by Prophet (SAW) permanently because of him reviling Prophet (SAW) and working against Islam, still no takfeer. He was cousin of Usman (RA). When Usman (RA) became Khalifa, Usman (RA) did not only recalled him from exile, but gave him the most powerful post in his Khalafat … later Amir Muawiyah made him Governor of Hijaz. After the death of yazid, he married wife of Yazid and became Khalifa.
Do you know that Abdullah ibn saad ibn-e-Abi Sarh used to write wahi in Madina, but became apostate and ran to Mecca. In Mecca, he started lying about Quran, Allah and Prophet (SAW). At conquest of Mecca, Prophet (SAW) ordered that any Muslim finds him should kill him (for his mischief against Islam attacking sanctity of Quran). To save his life, he ran to Usman (RA). Usman (RA) instead of killing him hid him for a while and later took him to Prophet (SAW) asking for his forgiveness. Prophet (SAW) waited, but after a long pause accepted Usman (RA) plea. Later, Ibn-e-Abi Sarh was made governor of Egypt under Usman (RA) Khalafat. No takfeer … no killing, even though he was not only apostate but reviled Quran, Prophet (SAW), and Allah.
Do you know that Bohtan (Slandering) on Aisha (RA) was big event during the life of Prophet (SAW). It is such a big event that Prophet (SAW) was not only hurt but was on verge of giving divorce (and divorce would have taken place if it was any other human … but being Prophet (SAW), Allah sent ayah that stopped divorce). Prophet (SAW) was so upset that he (SAW) changed his attitude towards Aisha (RA) and stopped talking to her (RA). Here again, many people were involved in spreading slanderous rumour hurting Prophet (SAW). Surprisingly, even after name of Aisha (RA) was cleared, no takfeer happened, nor any involved in spreading rumours were declared Kafir or apostate … rather they all were treated as Muslims. Amongst slanderers, Mistah bin Uthatha whose family was supported by Abu Bakr (RA) was relative of Abu Bakr (RA) … but once cleared Abu Bakr (RA) decided to stop helping him financially and ayah came not to do that (Quran 11:22) … no takfeer no killing. Hamnah bint Jahsh, sister of Prophet (SAW)'s wife, Zainab (RA), was slandering too, but nothing happened … no takfeer no killing.
Even though many stories abound from the time of Prophet (SAW)… one is remarkable.
1000 Muslims left Madina for battle of Uhad. Abdullah ibn Ubayy (chief of Khazraj tribe of Medina) left the battle field with his 300 men, disobeying Prophet (SAW) command and weakening Muslim army, leaving only 700 Muslims to face 3000 Kuffars of Mecca. No takfeer done, neither anyone of them who left battle field were declared Kafir, not even their leader Abdullah bin Ubayy was declared Kafir. Actually, even after Abdullah bin Ubayy prominent role in slandering of Aisha (RA). Prophet (SAW) did not do takfeer on him.
Rather: According to some writings … when Abdulalh bin Ubayy died, son of Abdullah bin Ubayy requested and accepting the request, prophet (SAW) himself led funeral prayers of Abdullah bin Ubayy and placed his (SAW)'s shirt on dead body of Abdullah bin Ubayy in his grave. No takfeer, no killing.
[One should know that nothing can save a person from punishment if they would do anything wrong in this life, be they Prophets (AS), Ahle-Bayet (family of Prophet), Ashab-e-Rasul (companions of Prophet), Azwaj-e-Rasul (wife of prophet), or Ummat-e-Rasul (followers of prophet).
Here is message from Quran 69:43-49:
(This is) a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds.
And if the messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name,
We should certainly seize him by his right hand,
And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart:
Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath).
But verily this is a Message for the Allah-fearing.
And We certainly know that there are amongst you those that reject (it).
Read following hadith from Bukhari:
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(1) Narrated Abu Huraira: When Allah revealed the Verse: “Warn your nearest kinsmen,” Allah’s Apostle got up and said, “O people of Quraish (or said similar words)! Buy (i.e. save) yourselves (from the Hellfire) as I cannot save you from Allah’s Punishment; O Bani Abd Manaf! I cannot save you from Allah’s Punishment, O Safiya, the Aunt of Allah’s Apostle! I cannot save you from Allah’s Punishment; O fatima bint Muhammad! Ask me anything from my wealth, but I cannot save you from Allah’s Punishment.” (Book #51](51. Wills and Testaments (Wasaayaa) - Sahih Al-Bukhari - 0 - 16), Hadith #16](51. Wills and Testaments (Wasaayaa) - Sahih Al-Bukhari - 0 - 16))
(2) Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle got up when the Verse:–'And warn your tribe of near kindred…" (26.214) was revealed and said, “O Quraish people! (or he said a similar word) Buy yourselves! I cannot **save **you from Allah (if you disobey Him) O Bani Abu Manaf! I cannot save you from Allah (if you disobey Him). O 'Abbas! The son of 'Abdul Muttalib! I cannot save you from Allah (if you disobey Him) O Safiya, (the aunt of Allah’s Apostle) I cannot save you from Allah (if you disobey Him). O fatima, the daughter of Muhammad! Ask what you wish from my property, but I cannot save you from Allah (if you disobey Him).” (Book 60](60. Prophetic Commentary on the Quran (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh)) - Sahih Al-Bukhari - 0 - 294), Hadith#294](60. Prophetic Commentary on the Quran (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh)) - Sahih Al-Bukhari - 0 - 294))
Obviously, purpose of ayahs in Quran and hadith is to tell us Muslims that no one is safe if they did anything wrong … in Quran it also clearly says that … only Allah’s fearing would believe this message, and many amongst Muslims would reject this (Quran 69:48-49)]